Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[slanda]

Jodi Arais has way more problems than just being a Narcisist.

She has (most likely) an Anti-Social PD.

This video clip gives me the chills. I do think she would kill again. It's truly haunting.

I wonder though, is she speaking to Travis or Flores?

I can see reasons for both.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=i8LfAMSIVfc&desktop_uri=/watch?v=i8LfAMSIVfc

 

[slanda]

Jodi Arais has way more problems than just being a Narcisist.

She has (most likely) an Anti-Social PD.

This video clip gives me the chills. I do think she would kill again. It's truly haunting.

I wonder though, is she speaking to Travis or Flores?

I can see reasons for both.

It occurred to me, because I actually did watch the entire interrogation tapes that I believe she is referring to Travis as "the" Brat. I think this because she kept insisting that: "If Travis were here today, he would tell you I had nothing to do with this" -- To which Flores responded: "Travis told me through all the evidence that you did this to him Jodi, I'm here to speak for Travis, that's my job and I believe you did this to him" ....

Which is why at the end of this interrogation she giggles and says: "Still beat me.... Brat." <---- She used to call Travis that.

She's pissed that she killed him and he still "won"

Wow.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=i8LfAMSIVfc&desktop_uri=/watch?v=i8LfAMSIVfc

Crazy.

 

[crimesnooper]

I hear you: Same type of mother/sister bond in my family, and was very destructive in many ways.

I know you know.

 

[crimesnooper]

AS we have been talking a lot about psych diagnosis.. and several of us clearly have family members with what we thibk are some of those issues. what does anyone thin about the possible hereditary links.. I would love to know more about her family. I may be reading way too much into this but JA's... mother's reactions seem off only in that she is so controlled in the court room from what I have seen.

 

[pip]

AS we have been talking a lot about psych diagnosis.. and several of us clearly have family members with what we thibk are some of those issues. what does anyone thin about the possible hereditary links.. I would love to know more about her family. I may be reading way too much into this but JA's... mother's reactions seem off only in that she is so controlled in the court room from what I have seen.

Emotionally detached perhaps? I mean, if you can't find a tear to shed at the appropriate moments, the least you can do is stop yourself from laughing in court. Her facial expressions (or lack there of) and body language relays 'cold fish' to me. Flat. Distant. Inappropriate at times. Anything but emotional.

 

[shelley921]

Emotionally detached perhaps? I mean, if you can't find a tear to shed at the appropriate moments, the least you can do is stop yourself from laughing in court. Her facial expressions (or lack there of) and body language relays 'cold fish' to me. Flat. Distant. Inappropriate at times. Anything but emotional.

that's exactly the feeling I got from watching the mother...that she is a cold fish, flat and distant...not a warm nurturing mother..

 

[iSleuth]

But isn't that the point, he fell in love with his own reflection? A reflection is an empty superficial thing with nothing behind it, as opposed to love which is a deeper more connected thing. He couldn't stop looking at a his reflection which had no meaning or substance.
Teens are notoriously self centred, bless them.

http://hompi.sogang.ac.kr/anthony/Classics/OvidEchoNarcissus.htm

The actual myth was interestingly also connected to really lying, stalking and unrequited love. Now that I am rereading it.

echo-Lies- covers for zeus, and is cursed by Hera...stalks Narcissus but in her state of being only able to repeat your last few words ( echo) withers away in the mtns.

Narcissus rebuffs Echo and everyone else...and is cursed to - not fall in love with his reflection ...but to experience beyond rejection- beyond unrequited love...but "If he should love deny him what he loves!"
coincidentally it ..wasn't himself..but merely his reflection.

He becomes a really stinky flower. have you ever smelled a narcissus flower? blech

 

[pip]

http://www.echo.me.uk/npd2.htm#parenting

There is an interesting section in this article about schools of thought on what kind of parenting may produce a narcissist.

I think of Cindy Anthony and Casey in the description of the over pampered, over-indulged that produced the monster that she is. CinA was over-involved.
I think of JA and her mother in the description of the unempathatic, under-indulged. Cold fish mothering. Under-involved.
Both JA and CA have huge 'mommy issues' and turbulent relationships with their mothers. Both JA and CA have antisocial personality disorders and NPD. They are only focused on their own needs, although stemming from polar opposite forces which created it.

 

[iSleuth]

that's exactly the feeling I got from watching the mother...that she is a cold fish, flat and distant...not a warm nurturing mother..

Omgggg I have spent a lot of time thinking about her Mom. Sitting there day after day. She certainly did not take the stand for the DT. ( can you imagine her being questioned by JM?)

She certainly did not get JA the extra help, tutoring, therapy she needed- or did she?

I wonder.

Jodi stayed back and dropped out in 11th grade.:cowcouch:

 

[crimesnooper]

That's just awful. My mother was a splitter too, when I asked her why she had never told me she loved me, she didn't answer.

Oh God..that's relly awful too. Silence hurts

 

[crimesnooper]

Jodi Arais has way more problems than just being a Narcisist.

She has (most likely) an Anti-Social PD.

This video clip gives me the chills. I do think she would kill again. It's truly haunting.

I wonder though, is she speaking to Travis or Flores?

I can see reasons for both.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=i8LfAMSIVfc&desktop_uri=/watch?v=i8LfAMSIVfc

I agree. She is a cold blooded killer who thinks on some level she was justified. And I agree, narcisim is the least of her problems. A true pscho/sociopath As I mentioned before I have been rewatching her interrogation tapes. Her ability to lie really is something over the top. And the part that really gets me is the calling of Travis' familiy and all that she did to appear like she was a grieving friend. Her steadfast, constant abilty to "calculate" what society might think and then "act" accordingly is truly diabolical.

 

[crimesnooper]

Crazy.

Thanks for posting that. It's the first time I saw/heard that. Amazing. She always has to be the winner... what idiot would utter something like that knowing you are on tape. To me, that comes close to a confession.

 

[SMK]

Isn't identity part of self-esteem?

I guess what i keep coming back to is imagining myself as a young woman of 27 who was in the position Jodi was in when she was 27- and how would i FEEL about MYSELF...?..and i can not imagine how i could feel GOOD about myself.

she was a h..s drop out working as a low pay waitress not able to support herself, with no close female friends, less than ideal family relations and a string of failed relationships with men behind her. I try to imagine how I would have felt about myself if I had been in those circumstances at that age -- or any age --and I imagine that I
would not have been feeling that GOOD about myself or hopeful about my future. i imagine how inadequate or unlovable i would have felt and, to me if you feel that way, you don't have high self esteem.

yet people keep saying narcissists do not feel insecure or feel bad about themselves because they think they are superior.

I think they have a superficial and grandiose , surface self esteem ("I'm so special, look at how great I am"). But it has a very shaky foundation.

So yes, the studies that say narcissists really DO think they are awesome, are missing part of the picture. The renowned psychologist of the 1940s and '50s, Karen Horney, stresses adamantly that just beneath their self-worship, lies a black abyss of insecurity and NON-identity.

Just look at the messes they get themselves into......NOT a product of GENUINE self-love!!! When one looks at the crime scene photos of Travis, does that look like it was done by someone who loved themselves and had high self esteem? Or does it look like the product of a rage which stems from emptiness?

 

[pip]

Jodi Arais has way more problems than just being a Narcisist.

She has (most likely) an Anti-Social PD.

This video clip gives me the chills. I do think she would kill again. It's truly haunting.

I wonder though, is she speaking to Travis or Flores?

I can see reasons for both.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=i8LfAMSIVfc&desktop_uri=/watch?v=i8LfAMSIVfc

I think that NPD and ASPD go hand in hand. When you are that self involved, you don't care about the needs of anyone else. This is where the ASPD comes in.
I believe she has malignant narcissism....scary.
Malignant narcissism has been described as "an extreme form of antisocial personality disorder combined with narcissistic personality disorder that is manifested in a person who is pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation, and with characteristic demonstrations of "joyful cruelty and sadism". In the clinical setting, individuals characterized as having traits of malignant narcissism would be diagnosed as psychopaths or as narcissistic sociopaths.
Malignant narcissism is a theoretical or 'experimental' diagnostic category; although narcissistic personality disorder is found in the current version of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR), malignant narcissism is not. As a syndrome, it may include aspects of schizoid and narcissistic personality disorder, as well as paranoia &#8212; Recent contributions have confirmed the importance of malignant narcissism and the defense of projection in the latter syndrome, as well as "the patient's vulnerability to malignant narcissistic regression".
Future studies are needed to determine how much of a link there is between malignant narcissism and psychopathy, and whether or not the two terms could ever be used interchangeably. Current theories only link the two together on a scale of narcissism.

 

[SMK]

Omgggg I have spent a lot of time thinking about her Mom. Sitting there day after day. She certainly did not take the stand for the DT. ( can you imagine her being questioned by JM?)

She certainly did not get JA the extra help, tutoring, therapy she needed- or did she?

I wonder.

Jodi stayed back and dropped out in 11th grade.:cowcouch:

http://www.echo.me.uk/npd2.htm#parenting

There is an interesting section in this article about schools of thought on what kind of parenting may produce a narcissist.

I think of Cindy Anthony and Casey in the description of the over pampered, over-indulged that produced the monster that she is. CinA was over-involved.
I think of JA and her mother in the description of the unempathatic, under-indulged. Cold fish mothering. Under-involved.
Both JA and CA have huge 'mommy issues' and turbulent relationships with their mothers. Both JA and CA have antisocial personality disorders and NPD. They are only focused on their own needs, although stemming from polar opposite forces which created it.

Yes, you are right on target with this.

Although one mother over-indulged, and one mother under-indulged,

NEITHER mother gave the kind of care which leads to genuine self-valuation and genuine independence.

 

[pip]

Yes, you are right on target with this.

Although one mother over-indulged, and one mother under-indulged,

NEITHER mother gave the kind of care which leads to genuine self-valuation and genuine independence.

Exactly. Both created the same monsters in the end, but by polar opposite faulty parenting issues.

What do you think CinA would do if 17 year old Casey dropped out of HS and decided to move in with her BF? She would go ape-chit. It would get pretty ugly. She would probably put a hit out on the BF and drag CA back screaming and kicking. JA's mom.. I get the impression, not so much. Whatev.

 

[SMK]

Exactly. Both created the same monsters in the end, but by polar opposite faulty parenting issues.

What do you think CinA would do if 17 year old Casey dropped out of HS and decided to move in with her BF? She would go ape-chit. It would get pretty ugly. JA's mom.. I get the impression, not so much. Whatev.

Yes, and as you say, the end result in either case, though they appear to be polar opposites, would still be young women with no center and no autonomy.

Both over-indulgence and under-indulgence owe their origins to the same faulty mothering and lead to poor character formation.

 

[SMK]

I agree. She is a cold blooded killer who thinks on some level she was justified. And I agree, narcisim is the least of her problems. A true pscho/sociopath As I mentioned before I have been rewatching her interrogation tapes. Her ability to lie really is something over the top. And the part that really gets me is the calling of Travis' familiy and all that she did to appear like she was a grieving friend. Her steadfast, constant abilty to "calculate" what society might think and then "act" accordingly is truly diabolical.

I sometimes forget that part. Imagine if she had never become a suspect or gotten arrested (ie, if she had done better clean up and not forgotten the camera). She may have even held a one year anniversary memorial for Travis....

 

[pip]

I think they have a superficial and grandiose , surface self esteem ("I'm so special, look at how great I am"). But it has a very shaky foundation.

So yes, the studies that say narcissists really DO think they are awesome, are missing part of the picture. The renowned psychologist of the 1940s and '50s, Karen Horney, stresses adamantly that just beneath their self-worship, lies a black abyss of insecurity and NON-identity.

Just look at the messes they get themselves into......NOT a product of GENUINE self-love!!! When one looks at the crime scene photos of Travis, does that look like it was done by someone who loved themselves and had high self esteem? Or does it look like the product of a rage which stems from emptiness?

I agree. Narcissism is is the resultant coping mechanism for low self esteem, low self worth. And I do believe that even if as a child he/she is over-indulged, or over-loved, that they still do not develop a normal self esteem system or true self value. The same for the under-loved or under-indulged. Grandiose sense of self worth results in both cases as a coping tool for the lack of security and real identity.

 

[Tiger09]

I get an impression of serial killer from JA. From CA, I just get selfish idiot who never wanted a kid. Cindy A wanted the child and should have just adopted her, but CA wanted to have control she never could over her mother. I don't see CA killing again. I don't see her having a life again. But JA doesn't care. She will seduce and manipulate. She will kill again if given the chance. CA is living life barely in the shadows, and no I'm not taking up for her. Not at all.