ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#23

[willough]

I thought she did attend the crosscountry? Maybe I got that worng. But it was reported in media she had a hair appt on the 19th at 7pm.. interesting anyway whatever they are wanting the programming for.

It was all rumour really.......Initially, yes she did attend, then more recently someone said no, that she wasnt at the cross country.

I know it was reported in the media about the hairdresser.....Ive just not been convinced that she really went to a hairdresser....JMO

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Probably freemason friends have bandied together...

Maybe Mr C21 himself (Mr Tarby?)

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

It was all rumour really.......Initially, yes she did attend, then more recently someone said no, that she wasnt at the cross country.

I know it was reported in the media about the hairdresser.....Ive just not been convinced that she really went to a hairdresser....JMO

ok, interesting your not convinced.. I thought that was a pretty crucial bit reported in the media and the police had interviewed the hairdressers.. It it isnt the case- which I believed it was..then that does change things. Except SPratsmum, i think said a mother at the school had seen Allison on the afternoon she went missing? She(the lady) also been interviewed by police.

 

[CIB]

Don't think any of us are going to know the answer to that one I'm afraid. And in actuallity, they are asking ALL tv stations(brisbane) for their programing. I wasn't sure what date channel 7 reported- I thought it was for the 19th/20th..but can't remember and can't find a link to see it/ If its the same dates as you mentioned, then I would think it is to verify something in timing or someones alibi in timing. But if it was reported by them to be the 19th/20th, then channel 9 probably got dates wrong, however that seems a pretty big thing to get wrong.

Thanks for your reply. I have Channel 9's 6pm News taped (from last night, the 14th) and have re-watched it just now and the reporter Alyshia Gates (who interviewed GBC) specified those dates and times and even made specific mention as to how it was unknown how that specific timeframe tied in with the case, so IMO it is actually Wed 18th 4pm - Thur 19th 4am that police are interested in.

 

[justice23]

Baden-Clay was initially led into court wearing a baggy mustard coloured jumper over his business shirt.

He was led out and returned again wearing just the shirt.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/ge...lison-baden-clay/story-fnbzs1v0-1226395697085

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nads
So does the public get to know any of the evidence shown at the committal hearing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins
No. IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins
Committals. Most open. This one almost certainly orders to contrary. IMO. ...

My apologies - I am now thoroughly perplexed. Would it be possible to please reiterate? I think this might help clear up any confusion? :loser:

Cheers

Sure happy to help, but just IMO and MOO. This is a murder indictment. In Qld we have two forms of murder but this will almost certainly be an indictment brought pursuant to s.302(1)(a) of the Code. The main job for the Crown will be to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Mr Baden Clay intended at the material time to kill or cause GBH to some person and as a result some person (not necessarily the intended victim) did in fact die. The tests for intention adopted in Qld are subjective, and have been developed as common law principles. This means you wont find them in any statute such as the Code, but in the decisions of the Qld Courtof Appeal and sometimes the High Court of Australia. There is a very strong common law presumption that these subjective tests of intention must be applied by a jury of the accused's peers. The jury is to be the arbiter of fact, and the judge of law. The Bligh government attempted to address some efficiency issues in our criminal courts by providing for, inter alia, judge only tries for serious indictable offences. The move was seriously criticised by some memebrs of the judiciary and the legal professions. What was actually needed they said, were more judges and expedited forensic procedures. The result is that although an accused may apply for a juryless trial (as Mr Sica considered), the common law presumption that subjective tests of intention in homicide matters requires lay determination prevails. In the unlikely event that a murder trial ever goes without a juy, there will be interlocutary proceedings to establish the validity of the statutory reforms. Challeneges on the basis of constitutional breaches and of international law obligations have also been flagged. Or so I hear. Hope that is of some assistance. It's always tempting to assume that where there is a statutory provision that it is a simple statement of 'the law'. With the criminal law, it rarely is. But as I say JMO.

I hope this doesn't seem like i'm picking on you, Hawkins, but i think you answer here, whilst still relevant to the case, doesn't answer the question :waitasec:.
I believe WI was simply questioning why you think the committal hearing will be closed. Correct me if i am wrong, but i saw no mention of a juryless trial in previous posts?!?!?!
Also...

Challeneges on the basis of constitutional breaches and of international law obligations have also been flagged. Or so I hear.

Any chance of elaboration on this part? quite an interesting statement if it refers specifically to this case!
Thanks again Hawkins, i always enjoy your posts, even though at times it must appear that i am picking them apart

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Thanks for your reply. I have Channel 9's 6pm News taped (from last night, the 14th) and have re-watched it just now and the reporter Alyshia Gates (who interviewed GBC) specified those dates and times and even made specific mention as to how it was unknown how that specific timeframe tied in with the case, so IMO it is actually Wed 18th 4pm - Thur 19th 4am that police are interested in.

Thanks for the reply..I wasn't questioning if thats what they said, just wondered if they got it right, simply cause I can't remember the dates channel 7 said I was more struck with the fact they had asked for ALL stations programming and missed taking note of the date, as I assumed it was for the 19th/20th. So it's interesting, by the fact they elaborated on the dates.. wonder what that means. Something pertinent to the case, be it alibi or for a timeline of whatever happened.

 

[Fuskier]

had a chat to my daughter today regarding the hair samples. She works in a lab.
She was saying in the lab she is in they do a Mitochondrial DNA testing which is passed on from the mother to her siblings. Thats with "cut" hair.
Not sure if this helps but thought Id pass it on

AMEE do you mean '...to her children'?

 

[willough]

ok, interesting your not convinced.. I thought that was a pretty crucial bit reported in the media and the police had interviewed the hairdressers.. It it isnt the case- which I believed it was..then that does change things. Except SPratsmum, i think said a mother at the school had seen Allison on the afternoon she went missing? She(the lady) also been interviewed by police.

Dont get me wrong.....It may she did go to the hairdresser......I just find it so typical I guess, that a hairdresser would claim she went there. Ive always had an inner feeling that she didnt go.....Doesnt mean she didnt though.

 

[True]

Every time I look at that sketch of him in the court room I am reminded why I think he's guilty. I've never seen anything like it before. He cant face anyone. Where is his pride if he is in fact innocent? Sitting with his face to the wall like he's been put in time out.

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Before I try and answer for you, bear in mind that most of my knowledge comes from studying law (and I still have 18 months to go!). There is a world of difference between theoretical and practical knowledge so if you take my answers in that light then we should be ok! So here goes:

If someone has given a statement to police or made a stat dec/affidavit then they are given a copy of it upon completion. If they then go into the witness box they will have to rely upon their memory with no copies of statements allowed. Lawyers will rehearse their witnesses to ensure they are ready to testify. There are exceptions to this rule that include police officers, pathologists etc who may refer to notes made at the time.

In cross examination lawyers will test the evidence given by a witness. The jury will make a determnation if they believe the evidence or not. Certainly the barristers that have provided instruction to us mere undergraduates advise not to rely on courtroom tricks as judges and jurors take a dim view.

I've got access to some great journal articles that might give clarity to a few of the current issues but they are password protected so the link won't work. I'll try and work out how to provide access to them for future reference.

:goodpost:

 

[Nads]

Yes, it is a possibility that the court will completely suppress the MSM from reporting , but i am confident they will allow some info through
(as i have previously stated, Judges discretion e.t.c.).

So, my question is, what do you all think? a complete blackout or partial?
Also, WI and Hawkins (and anyone else, for that matter ); in your experience, what aspects (other than charges), if any, will the court allow MSM to report on?
Will be interesting to find out, when the time comes.

So if it's a complete blackout, then it would need to be a closed court? And all the people in the room sworn to secrecy? Otherwise stuff is sure to get out. Not via msm as they would get in trouble, but definitely on social media!

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Hard to be specific until all the charges with which Mr Baden Clay may be indicted are made public if there are any more to come. Ditto for any other parties who may be charged.

Thanks anyway, Hawkins.

 

[Blacklodge]

It certainly is most odd that it came to light that Allison didnt attend the cross country event (rumoured and I cant remember if that ws wednesday or thursday)......and she didnt attend "classroom help" for her children on the wednesday (though he did)..He did go to the doctor and went to the chemist on the Thursday morning.

Could he have been texting Kerry Anne Walker....pretending he was Allison on the Thursday.....He may have known fully well that he had to report her missing on the friday morning, because he committed (pretending on text message) to Kerry Anne, that she was going to bring items to KAWs home on the friday afternoon.

Certainly is suss!!!

My thoughts exactly, Willough.

 

[Hawkins]

I hope this doesn't seem like i'm picking on you, Hawkins, but i think you answer here, whilst still relevant to the case, doesn't answer the question :waitasec:.
I believe WI was simply questioning why you think the committal hearing will be closed. Correct me if i am wrong, but i saw no mention of a juryless trial in previous posts?!?!?!
Also...
Any chance of elaboration on this part? quite an interesting statement if it refers specifically to this case!
Thanks again Hawkins, i always enjoy your posts, even though at times it must appear that i am picking them apart

WI was confused about a few things but I replied with this answer to his other Q re jury less trials. Sorry switching between devices all afternoon. I comment elsewhere that I believe MOO that this committal will be closed. Time will tell if that is so. The int law element relates to the presumption that subjective intention for serious offences will be determined by juries not judges. This is a requirement of a number of human rights instruments. Currently a cause of friction in the ICC also.

 

[spratsmum]

The poster who gave the information re someone speaking to Allison in the pick up line on the Thursday is post number 801 on the previous thread. The posters "name" xyzquestions, and that was her first post.

Sorry I still can't do the pasting between thread, I am a computer dullard.

 

[Amee]

AMEE do you mean '...to her children'?

Mitochondrial DNA is only passed from Mother to child, not from Father to child, so siblings with the same mother all have the exact same Mitochondrial DNA sequence.

 

[Nads]

Baden-Clay was initially led into court wearing a baggy mustard coloured jumper over his business shirt.

He was led out and returned again wearing just the shirt.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/ge...lison-baden-clay/story-fnbzs1v0-1226395697085

The Americans will think this is odd. Over there (at least it was in Atlanta) a jumper is a girl's pinafore! So, he was wearing a pink shirt with a mustard coloured pinny over it!

He has a definite thing about mustard!

 

[CIB]

Thanks for the reply..I wasn't questioning if thats what they said, just wondered if they got it right, simply cause I can't remember the dates channel 7 said I was more struck with the fact they had asked for ALL stations programming and missed taking note of the date, as I assumed it was for the 19th/20th. So it's interesting, by the fact they elaborated on the dates.. wonder what that means. Something pertinent to the case, be it alibi or for a timeline of whatever happened.

I get you now. I guess I just thought the fact the reporter made out it was interesting for QPS to want programming for that timeframe, that it wasn't a mistake. But you never know really, do you?!

If only we all had crystal balls and could see what was going on behind closed doors in regards to this case!! I want INFO PEOPLE!!! hehe.

 

[Hawkins]

Thanks anyway, Hawkins.

Well let's see if the QPS or any other agency acts on other charges or people in coming months and revisit this issue. I have never seen such a media frenzy in relation to a criminal matter in Qld. We can hardly blame the press for some hasty or inconsistent reporting given the immense public appetite.