ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#23

[UnfoldingTruth]

It was a female TV reporter and she definitely said the 18th, it's had me wondering also.

I understand its what she said, I meant unless she misreported it as those dates. I can't remember the dates channel 7 said(if its the same then I don't think they all would have misreported), but they did say they had asked channel 7, 9 and 10 and I think ABC to provide programming schedules. So yes obviously wanting to verify something for the case.

 

[Hawkins]

Yes, it is a possibility that the court will completely suppress the MSM from reporting , but i am confident they will allow some info through
(as i have previously stated, Judges discretion e.t.c.).

So, my question is, what do you all think? a complete blackout or partial?
Also, WI and Hawkins (and anyone else, for that matter ); in your experience, what aspects (other than charges), if any, will the court allow MSM to report on?
Will be interesting to find out, when the time comes.

Hard to be specific until all the charges with which Mr Baden Clay may be indicted are made public if there are any more to come. Ditto for any other parties who may be charged.

 

[Blacklodge]

Perhaps the police have reason to believe Allison was murdered earlier.. Say somewhere between the 18th to the 20th of April???

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I am assuming his lawyer is being paid by his family..IMO or an arrangement has been made?

His Lawyer may be on the Legal Aid Panel so therefore he may be getting Legal Aid from him...But IMO he is paying this Lawyer... I really believe that the Police hinted that they suspect him early on and that is why he has hired a Lawyer already so they had plenty of time to prepare.

The Court can appoint you a Legal Aid Solicitor but if you are able to find a Solicitor who does Legal Aid work this is much better.....IMO!

As far as him having No money - I am unsure if this is entirely true?

His Real Estate would have to have a trust fund and if this is the case and from what I am aware of you can't be a bankrupt ( or criminal ).

I wonder how much his Rental Roll is worth?

He also has 2 Cars?

He most likely has Superannuation?

He may also have Life Insurance?

Most Business people have Share Investments?

He maybe Cash poor but if you delve deeper he may be able to cash in on all of the above??? IMO!

I have no idea to his finances..just going by what its been reported, and wonder how on earth his family would also afford it. Not my business I suppose. But just curious. Yes he obviously had pretty darn good reason for needing to hire lawyer early on.

Thanks for your info.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Perhaps the police have reason to believe Allison was murdered earlier.. Say somewhere between the 18th to the 20th of April???

Yes it was discussed last night on here as a possibility I think. BUt hasn't it been reported that she had a hair dresser appt. on the 19th at 7pm. Also police stated early on she could have been killed as early as 8pm on the 19th...(not early as the 18th). There have been other local reports on here of her being seen early on the 19th I thought. But its interesting.. theres obviously something in those times and dates they want.

 

[Agent_99]

the hair could also have come off the cape she would have worn at the hair salon to protect her clothes, probably unlikely though if she had changed clothes or showered etc. and if she had her hair coloured it would make it a little easier for forensics if they found the newly coloured hair in inappropriate places, like the back of the car etc.

An interesting read about Hair DNA testing...
Hair DNA Test Results Used As Evidence In Murder Trial
http://www.ibdna.com/regions/UK/EN/?page=hair-dna-test-evidence-in-murder-trial

 

[CaseClosed]

A couple of relevant quotes from the following link: http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/abou...research/criminalcodedisclosureprovisions.pdf

"The disclosure Chapter in the Criminal Code proceeds (as did the common law) on the basis that 'it is a fundamental obligation of the prosecution to ensure criminal proceedings are conducted fairly with the single aim of determining and establishing truth'.

"... the obligation includes an ongoing obligation for the prosecution to give an accused person full and early disclosure of –
(a) all evidence the prosecution proposes to rely on in the proceeding; and
(b) all things in the possession of the prosecution, other than things the disclosure of which would be unlawful or contrary to the public interest, that would tend to help the case for the accused person."

Thanks WI! I might not like Latin, but I do like the info you provide!

 

[willough]

Perhaps the police have reason to believe Allison was murdered earlier.. Say somewhere between the 18th to the 20th of April???

It certainly is most odd that it came to light that Allison didnt attend the cross country event (rumoured and I cant remember if that ws wednesday or thursday)......and she didnt attend "classroom help" for her children on the wednesday (though he did)..He did go to the doctor and went to the chemist on the Thursday morning.

Could he have been texting Kerry Anne Walker....pretending he was Allison on the Thursday.....He may have known fully well that he had to report her missing on the friday morning, because he committed (pretending on text message) to Kerry Anne, that she was going to bring items to KAWs home on the friday afternoon.

Certainly is suss!!!

 

[spratsmum]

I am assuming his lawyer is being paid by his family..IMO or an arrangement has been made?

His Lawyer may be on the Legal Aid Panel so therefore he may be getting Legal Aid from him...But IMO he is paying this Lawyer... I really believe that the Police hinted that they suspect him early on and that is why he has hired a Lawyer already so they had plenty of time to prepare.

The Court can appoint you a Legal Aid Solicitor but if you are able to find a Solicitor who does Legal Aid work this is much better.....IMO!

As far as him having No money - I am unsure if this is entirely true?

His Real Estate would have to have a trust fund and if this is the case and from what I am aware of you can't be a bankrupt ( or criminal ).

I wonder how much his Rental Roll is worth?

He also has 2 Cars?

He most likely has Superannuation?

He may also have Life Insurance?

Most Business people have Share Investments?

He maybe Cash poor but if you delve deeper he may be able to cash in on all of the above??? IMO!

I was wondering if the barrister/solicitor would work for a reduced fee because of the noterity of this case? But I suppose not, they are both established legal professionals and don't need the publicity.

The other thing that I have wondered, is the franchise from Century 21 an asset? Can it be sold or is it retained by the parent company?

 

[Mothergoose]

Hey Hawkins,

I don’t know if this has been covered as I haven’t been able to keep up with the threads, but I would be grateful if you could talk us through what might be the expected defenses in this case.

I know you mentioned that GBC will most likely not take the witness stand, and it will be up to QPS to prove that he is responsible for Allison’s death, but will his team be presenting some kind of defense?

From what I remember studying criminology there are three main defenses in DV related cases:

1. Self defense
2. Provocation
3. Intention

Not sure if this is still relevant or how it applies to QLD law, (from memory there was some changes to provocation laws recently) so would be grateful if you could enlighten us as to what the defense strategy might be

If GBC is pleading Innocent wouldn't self-defense, provocation, and intention imply guilt? Didn't the lawyers say he would be denying the charges vigorously or did I miss read or miss something?:waitasec:

 

[willough]

Thanks WI! I might not like Latin, but I do like the info you provide!

Awwwww Shucks......I agree......I dont like (hmmm moreso dont know) Latin.....But, he is a good egg

 

[ActusReus]

And sadly this is where the games begin, experts for hire to contradict the other side, entrapment of witnesses, which seems pretty easy to do, jurors who don't have the intelligence to grasp forensic evidence.

Maybe if Hawkins or someone else knowlegible is around, can solve this puzzle for me.
Are prosecutors not allowed to show witnesses their previous statements, or even tell them what questions they will be asked?
The case I am watching at the moment, witnesses are asked things such as "do you remember telling X two years ago etc etc"
Then the witness says they can't remember the date or something (which is understandable if they haven't been been allowed to see their previous statement)
For many people it is probably the first time they have ever been in a High Court, you can see how nervous they are, and how easily it is for a lawyer to make them look unsure or lying.

Before I try and answer for you, bear in mind that most of my knowledge comes from studying law (and I still have 18 months to go!). There is a world of difference between theoretical and practical knowledge so if you take my answers in that light then we should be ok! So here goes:

If someone has given a statement to police or made a stat dec/affidavit then they are given a copy of it upon completion. If they then go into the witness box they will have to rely upon their memory with no copies of statements allowed. Lawyers will rehearse their witnesses to ensure they are ready to testify. There are exceptions to this rule that include police officers, pathologists etc who may refer to notes made at the time.

In cross examination lawyers will test the evidence given by a witness. The jury will make a determnation if they believe the evidence or not. Certainly the barristers that have provided instruction to us mere undergraduates advise not to rely on courtroom tricks as judges and jurors take a dim view.

I've got access to some great journal articles that might give clarity to a few of the current issues but they are password protected so the link won't work. I'll try and work out how to provide access to them for future reference.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

It certainly is most odd that it came to light that Allison didnt attend the cross country event (rumoured and I cant remember if that ws wednesday or thursday)......and she didnt attend "classroom help" for her children on the wednesday (though he did)..He did go to the doctor and went to the chemist on the Thursday morning.

Could he have been texting Kerry Anne Walker....pretending he was Allison on the Thursday.....He may have known fully well that he had to report her missing on the friday morning, because he committed (pretending on text message) to Kerry Anne, that she was going to bring items to KAWs home on the friday afternoon.

Certainly is suss!!!

I thought she did attend the crosscountry? Maybe I got that worng. But it was reported in media she had a hair appt on the 19th at 7pm.. interesting anyway whatever they are wanting the programming for.

 

[spratsmum]

Perhaps the police have reason to believe Allison was murdered earlier.. Say somewhere between the 18th to the 20th of April???

i was going down that track last night Blacklodge thinking it may have been earlier in light of query to the TV stations.

One lady came on and said that she knows the BC girls and her children attend the same school and she told us that a mother at Brookfield State School spoke to Allison in the pick up line on the Thursday afternoon, and the police have interviewed this lady. So Allison can't have been murdered on the 18th of April.

The only reason we could come up with last night was alibi for an accomplice.

 

[factfinda]

No other arrests are expected to be made by police (Channel 10 news)

 

[spratsmum]

Perhaps the children have said something about a tv programme and what happened at home when it was on.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I was wondering if the barrister/solicitor would work for a reduced fee because of the noterity of this case? But I suppose not, they are both established legal professionals and don't need the publicity.

The other thing that I have wondered, is the franchise from Century 21 an asset? Can it be sold or is it retained by the parent company?

You had me wondering on that too. I think the franchise can be sold. If someone buys into a franchise, and then down the track wants out, they have to be able to sell it, either back to the parent company or onto another party. After all franchises can cost big money. Makes me wonder if that was the point of business as usual, to try to keep the business running to be able to sell it?? All just MOO so could be wrong.

 

[justice23]

channel 9: good news to come in regards to the girls (more at 6pm)

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

i was going down that track last night Blacklodge thinking it may have been earlier in light of query to the TV stations.

One lady came on and said that she knows the BC girls and her children attend the same school and she told us that a mother at Brookfield State School spoke to Allison in the pick up line on the Thursday afternoon, and the police have interviewed this lady. So Allison can't have been murdered on the 18th of April.

The only reason we could come up with last night was alibi for an accomplice.

Still an alibi for an accomplice, would think would need to be after the 18th also, in line when Allison was reportedly killed..one would think..IMO

 

[Lazard]

I would like to know who is paying his legal bills, if he has no money? Legal aid would only entitle him to a court appointed lawyer wouldn't it? Not a top criminal lawyer.

Probably freemason friends have bandied together...