ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#23

[plentyofnous]

ok, thanks for your reply, but im just wondering when gbc made ow the guardian of his children?
i saw it mentioned a few posts back and just wondering if its true and where the info came from?
if it was recently its a bit of an odd thing to do imo!!

extremely odd IMO, in fact , all their behaviour IMO is very odd considering the reputation of the legal team, makes me ponder other issues now

 

[KG1]

Interesting handshake. Me going off topic. No relevance to case.

Off topic also but Masonic Handshake???

 

[summer_breeze]

I'm going back through this thread now. Knock it off!

This posts lands at random.

From here forth, all posts directed at telling other posters what they need to do, think, type, etc. will earn a time out. There will no longer be any excuses. The personalizing posts toward one member and the generalization toward other members is over.

We are getting dozens of complaints from regulars and from those who are afraid to post. It's going to stop now.

If you are about to post about another member, all members, this forum or anything else that might sound negative towards this group, be ready to lose your posting privileges.

I will add this to the opening post.

 

[Completelyconfused]

ok, thanks for your reply, but im just wondering when gbc made ow the guardian of his children?
i saw it mentioned a few posts back and just wondering if its true and where the info came from?
if it was recently its a bit of an odd thing to do imo!!

According to my source (who is a friend of the BC family and I cannot name them) It was done recently. I have in place for my child guardianship papers should something happen to me so why would it be an odd thing to do?

I would imagine that even GBC could see that down the track things were looking pretty certain that the QPS was looking at him for whatever reasons. It seems prudent to ensure the children stay in the BC clan. However it is possible that both ABC and GBC had OW as listed guardian in their wills already should something happen to them - maybe he amended it or maybe it's completely new. I'm just repeating what I was told.

I am aware that the BC clan is not happy the custody has gone the way it has and that there is potentially a fight brewing. I agree the BC oldies yelling at QPS has probably not helped their image!!

 

[XyzQuestions]

The girls don't do ballet on Thursday

Hi cc - I was repeating what one of the other school mums told me and they spoke to her in the school car park on the Thursday she was last seen and apparently said she was off on the ballet run?? if they don't do ballet on Thursday then I do not know why my friend said that Allison had said that - as I said I was passing on information that I was told.

 

[angel1]

For all those that have had a problem with the way GBC dresses in the mustard colour. I just went to google and that colour is part of the dress standards for C21. I even typed it in google images and found alot of other guys wearing the same colour

 

[SydneySleuth]

I haven't posted anything for a few days as I haven't had anything to add to the discussion, not to say I haven't enjoyed reading all the posts

I agree that we don't know what GBC thinks or his personality traits....however, IMO, the murderer (that is GBC if proven guilty) has some serious deficiencies in his personality, mental state etc. A person who murders THEN goes to great lengths to cover the murder is obviously not "normal". Its the covering up of the murder, not the murder itself that highlights a mental deficiency or personality disorder. Committing murder is horrific enough but to pretend it didn't happen and manipulate the system is a sign that the murderer isn't quite 'right'. I'm not in any way trivialising the murder of poor Allison, but if it was a DV gone wrong or an accident, then the police would have been called at the time of the murder, not hours later. I'm not suggesting it was pre meditated (who knows) but there was an awful lot of planning that went into orchestrating a cover up. Your average person would not be capable of firstly murdering someone, but then to cover it up. All MOO.

Now I shall await the rotten tomatoes to be hurled in my direction!

 

[plentyofnous]

According to my source (who is a friend of the BC family and I cannot name them) It was done recently. I have in place for my child guardianship papers should something happen to me so why would it be an odd thing to do?

I would imagine that even GBC could see that down the track things were looking pretty certain that the QPS was looking at him for whatever reasons. It seems prudent to ensure the children stay in the BC clan. However it is possible that both ABC and GBC had OW as listed guardian in their wills already should something happen to them - maybe he amended it or maybe it's completely new. I'm just repeating what I was told.

I am aware that the BC clan is not happy the custody has gone the way it has and that there is potentially a fight brewing. I agree the BC oldies yelling at QPS has probably not helped their image!!

With all due respect, there is no such thing as Child Guardianship, if what you are saying is true, I m thinking a myriad of possibilities, but it has definitely changed my own opinion of this whole event and the outcome

 

[bearbear]

Info came from a source close to the BC family, sorry can't say more than that.

oh, ok, thanks for replying, i missed your post sorry.
thats an odd thing to do, i wonder if it was ages ago, like parents sometimes talk about to make sure the children are cared for in case of both parents death, but if it was recently ????
very strange!!!

 

[Trooper]

I was surprised that the BC mum and dad did their block at the watchhouse, . they surely should have known, considering all the possible eventualities , that should Gerard be arrested, to visit him they have to go thru the normal hoops that every other visitor is subject to. Identity check, signed by a justice of the peace, a written request to visit, a time designated to them by the authorities, even a clothing check, forgive me, but its on the QPS site in advice for visitors. A clothing advice and what not to wear.

What to bring, what not to bring.. one just cannot rock up and expect to visit.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I haven't posted anything for a few days as I haven't had anything to add to the discussion, not to say I haven't enjoyed reading all the posts

I agree that we don't know what GBC thinks or his personality traits....however, IMO, the murderer (that is GBC if proven guilty) has some serious deficiencies in his personality, mental state etc. A person who murders THEN goes to great lengths to cover the murder is obviously not "normal". Its the covering up of the murder, not the murder itself that highlights a mental deficiency or personality disorder. Committing murder is horrific enough but to pretend it didn't happen and manipulate the system is a sign that the murderer isn't quite 'right'. I'm not in any way trivialising the murder of poor Allison, but if it was a DV gone wrong or an accident, then the police would have been called at the time of the murder, not hours later. I'm not suggesting it was pre meditated (who knows) but there was an awful lot of planning that went into orchestrating a cover up. Your average person would not be capable of firstly murdering someone, but then to cover it up. All MOO.

Now I shall await the rotten tomatoes to be hurled in my direction!

No rotten tomatoes here, lol.

I feel if it was DV escalation, then any leniancy towards that should go way out the window when you take into consideration the after the fact stuff of cover up- dumping of body and prolonged charade of Allison being 'missing' and all the rest of it.. MOO

and I think I'm having an earlier night tonight..fftobed:

 

[Hawkins]

Thanks Hawkins for this, and your previous post, but i have to disagree (once again...sorry :blushing. I understand that at times, factors relating to a murder charge fall under a joinder of charges, where the term 'murder' itself encompasses interference of corpse etc, right?. I have limited knowledge of this, and i would appreciate your feedback, as it seems you have a better understanding in general of crim law. So, i do see what you are saying here...

However....
I have found a few murder charges, even where more than one count of murder is involved, that also carry an 'interference with corpse' charge, see:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/qld/QCA/2008/395.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=interference%20with%20a%20corpse

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/s...0&synonyms=0&query=interference with a corpse

These are both COA cases.

So, it seems that it is added to murder indictment in some cases. Whether or not that is the case here, or its mention is only an indication that a manslaughter charge may occur instead, we will have to wait and see.

Am i correct in saying that an initial charge of murder may be reduced to manslaughter, but a manslaughter charge is not able to be increased to a murder charge? That is what my understanding has been, and would explain the murder charge, as it means they have covered all their bases, in the event that the murder charge sticks.

All due respect to you, Hawkins. I look forward to further discussion on this

Maybe read my post again carefully and then read the cases you link. Of coure intereference charges can be on any indictment. Those cases are both examples of what I am suggesting. The first involves the trial of a juvenile where there is no mandatory life sentence hence the interference charge can be relevant to sentence. The second is an example of a murder and interference conviction, but where the interference conviction has no effect on sentence due to concurrency. We have no process of joinder of the kind you suggest in Qld. Each charge must be separately identified on the indictment. The elements of a murder offence do not, and cannot include, any element of interference with a coprse. By its very nature such interference can only occur after the murder itself has been complete. That's a matter of law and logic I think. What you'd need to find, for it to be contrary to my view, would be a case where convictions for both murder and interference, on the same indictiment, for an adult, resulted in consecutive sentences.

Manslaughter is an alternative verdict to murder. But manslaughter also forms part of the elements of murder, which is why it appears as "unlawfuly killing" rather than as "manslaughter" on an indictment. Once the unlawful killing is established then a manslaughter conviction must follow, absent the success of any defences or excuses. The Crown may then attempt to prove other elements, on of which may be intention, to establish murder. If that element is not successfully proved then the jury can be instructed by the judge to convict on manslaughter, or be asked to consider manslaughter only in deliberation.

The inclusion of the interference charge here can have no effect on sentence if the accused is convicted of murder. But as I suggested, if there is a plea bargain and the Crown will accept a plea of guilty to manslaugher to the charge of murder which appears on the indictment then it may. But there are more strategic subtleties than that. Interference with a corpse will most usually be the burying, hiding or an attempt to destroy it. To have a significant effect on a manslaughter conviction, it would need to involve something less usual. All just MOO.

 

[SydneySleuth]

No rotten tomatoes here, lol.

I feel if it was DV escalation, then any leniancy towards that should go way out the window when you take into consideration the after the fact stuff of cover up- dumping of body and prolonged charade of Allison being 'missing' and all the rest of it.. MOO

and I think I'm having an earlier night tonight..fftobed:

I think you're 100% right. Lets hope the courts see it the same way.

 

[Mani]

I haven't posted anything for a few days as I haven't had anything to add to the discussion, not to say I haven't enjoyed reading all the posts

I agree that we don't know what GBC thinks or his personality traits....however, IMO, the murderer (that is GBC if proven guilty) has some serious deficiencies in his personality, mental state etc. A person who murders THEN goes to great lengths to cover the murder is obviously not "normal". Its the covering up of the murder, not the murder itself that highlights a mental deficiency or personality disorder. Committing murder is horrific enough but to pretend it didn't happen and manipulate the system is a sign that the murderer isn't quite 'right'. I'm not in any way trivialising the murder of poor Allison, but if it was a DV gone wrong or an accident, then the police would have been called at the time of the murder, not hours later. I'm not suggesting it was pre meditated (who knows) but there was an awful lot of planning that went into orchestrating a cover up. Your average person would not be capable of firstly murdering someone, but then to cover it up. All MOO.

Now I shall await the rotten tomatoes to be hurled in my direction!

Nooo, they are all coming in my direction SS! lol

 

[SydneySleuth]

Nooo, they are all coming in my direction SS! lol

Happy to share the load lol

 

[Keentoknow]

I was surprised that the BC mum and dad did their block at the watchhouse, . they surely should have known, considering all the possible eventualities , that should Gerard be arrested, to visit him they have to go thru the normal hoops that every other visitor is subject to. Identity check, signed by a justice of the peace, a written request to visit, a time designated to them by the authorities, even a clothing check, forgive me, but its on the QPS site in advice for visitors. A clothing advice and what not to wear.

What to bring, what not to bring.. one just cannot rock up and expect to visit.

and could also get caught up in a random strip search.

 

[plentyofnous]

Hawkins, enjoy your posts and knowledge, what are your thoughts on relevance of bail for Raney in Perth

and do you think that the children are a stategic player in this

 

[bearbear]

According to my source (who is a friend of the BC family and I cannot name them) It was done recently. I have in place for my child guardianship papers should something happen to me so why would it be an odd thing to do?

I would imagine that even GBC could see that down the track things were looking pretty certain that the QPS was looking at him for whatever reasons. It seems prudent to ensure the children stay in the BC clan. However it is possible that both ABC and GBC had OW as listed guardian in their wills already should something happen to them - maybe he amended it or maybe it's completely new. I'm just repeating what I was told.

I am aware that the BC clan is not happy the custody has gone the way it has and that there is potentially a fight brewing. I agree the BC oldies yelling at QPS has probably not helped their image!!

sorry i missed your reply above, too slow typing!!
i dont think having legal guardianship for your children is odd, i think its a really good idea in case anything happens and if allison and gerard made this decision as a couple thats good, but i just think its odd if he made her guardian just before allison died.
i can understand it though if it was after allisons death and he knew he may not be around to care for the girls, of course he would put things into place for them.

 

[louisepiglet]

According to my source (who is a friend of the BC family and I cannot name them) It was done recently. I have in place for my child guardianship papers should something happen to me so why would it be an odd thing to do?

I would imagine that even GBC could see that down the track things were looking pretty certain that the QPS was looking at him for whatever reasons. It seems prudent to ensure the children stay in the BC clan. However it is possible that both ABC and GBC had OW as listed guardian in their wills already should something happen to them - maybe he amended it or maybe it's completely new. I'm just repeating what I was told.

I am aware that the BC clan is not happy the custody has gone the way it has and that there is potentially a fight brewing. I agree the BC oldies yelling at QPS has probably not helped their image!!

Why should the children stay in the BC clan?

 

[grannie]

Off topic also but Mason Handshake???

10 points.