ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#24

[KG1]

Sorry for offtopic...is anyone in Melbourne??...reports coming in about an earthquake down there?????

Yes, the earth moved for me, for sure tonight. Lol. 5.2 magnitude and the epicentre is Wilson's Promontory. A bit of a shock as was felt all over Melbourne, but particularly the Mornington Peninsula. Good news, no reports of injury or damage so far. :rocker:

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Dark Shadow...Someone posted way back that police cars had been seen at the house earlier that night possibly only a rumour though...but could it have been possible they may have received an 000 call and were responding to it and given an excuse of some kind that all was right and then next morning he reported Allison missing and all alarm bells went off with the QPS hence making it an immediate crime scene...just wondering if you would see this as a possibility...

Sorry for the late reply, Elspeth.

Police will most definitely investigate an incident if they suspect a person is in physical danger. This decision is completely at their discretion, however, they must act on reasonable suspicion. (e.g, if they suspect domestic violence, they will check to see that all members of the household are accounted for and safe).

If they feel there is no cause for suspicion (i.e, both members of a couple come to the door, they can see the kids sitting watching telly in their p.j's, all look well, explain the phone call was a complete accident, or neighbours hold a grudge for some reason etc.) then they are not obliged to investigate further.

As for alarm bells the next morning, in a similar scenario? Well, the alarm bells would be deafening if there were suspicions of DV or similar the night before, IMO..
.
I am fairly certain that there would also be alarm bells if there was an uninvestigated call-out the night before, particularly if the initial call-out was due to a report of screams heard by neighbours or similar.

Also, as i mentioned in a previous post, legislation has changed since the Daniel Morcombe case. It is now a mandatory immediate response to a missing person report if QPS are made aware that the missing person is a youth, has a mental illness (including depression) or is an elderly citizen.

HTH

 

[louisepiglet]

maybe she normally got a phone call at that time each morning? her children to say good morning from their sleepover (it was rumoured the sleepovers were a regular weekly thing) or maybe one of her parents etc
or even possibly it could have been because he was expecting the children to arrive any minute before school asking for mummy? imo

Someone in an earlier thread (sorry, can't find it) suggested that Allison may have arranged to pick someone else up on the way to the course she was attending and that person rang to find out where she was. Maybe GBC was unaware of the arrangement. IMO this is plausible.

 

[KG1]

For those interested or in Melbourne,

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/13987270/melbourne-hit-by-earthquake/

 

[truth_morph]

Does anyone know if GBC or any of the other unsavory 'major' players ever spoke about Allison in the past tense prior to discovery of her body?

I'm reasonably confident GBC hasn't uttered much .... I think he has strung together a whole 12 words for interviews :floorlaugh: So, anyone else? The Sister, Mother, Father?

I'm taking the premeditated murder line and speaking in the past tense would further strengthen my opinion. If it was possible to lay a bet on the chances of bail on Thursday, my guess is Centrebet would be advertising 1000-1.

 

[Strangeworld]

If anyone watches this can they please let us know a little of what was said. I am particularly interested in the lessons that Professor Jim Fallon learned about why he didn't turn out to be a killer when he worked out that he had the profile of a psychopath, and also the different ideas that emerge about crime and punishment.

I didn't feel the earthquake...though my daughter did.......but at first she thought that it was the rats that we have been trying to get rid of (that caused us to lose heating for a week......brrrrrr!) or the possums that we are trying to distract from the cosiness of our ceiling space! Any tips on that one Possumheart......LOL. Save the possum tips for the chat room or a PM though please in the interests of the purpose of this forum.

One interesting point on the show was that it is hard to tell a high performer from a psychopath. But one element that they have observed is that psychopaths often APPEAR to be successful, well liked, attention-grabbing, but the hard evidence of success is not present i.e. they SEEM to be successful, but when you peel back the layers, it is all smoke and mirrors (all my words - just my interpretation of what was said). Psychopaths tend to thrive in the corporate world, where the environment is dynamic and change is commonplace. But when performance is analysed, it can be quite underwhelming.

Also, psychopaths are very good at reading other people's thoughts and responding in a manipulative way. But they fail to grasp the concept of empathy...and don't care that they can't do this.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Does anyone know if GBC or any of the other unsavory 'major' players ever spoke about Allison in the past tense prior to discovery of her body?

I'm reasonably confident GBC hasn't uttered much .... I think he has strung together a whole 12 words for interviews :floorlaugh: So, anyone else? The Sister, Mother, Father?

I'm taking the premeditated murder line and speaking in the past tense would further strengthen my opinion. If it was possible to lay a bet on the chances of bail on Thursday, my guess is Centrebet would be advertising 1000-1.

Yes, something that stuck out to me in his one and ony interview before Allisons body was found it. his priority was his kids- I think he said 'my' kids. then corrected and said we've got 3 girls (or 3 children)..but his first words were 'my' kids.. Now I do know that may mean nothing. But it is something that can also say so much.. MOO

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Just wondering why they need his beard - (and I wonder if after he shaves it will he grow another to perhaps cover new scars etc)


They can actually tell if hair has been forcibly broken off!!! So perhaps they are looking to match a hair which was broken off on ABC with GBC's hair from the beard.Given the fact that it is mottled they might need a good distribution of colour and texture. Just a thought.

I don't really understand why people are thinking they need the beard sample to match with hair broken off .. They can match the hair with DNA and I believe the accuracy is something like 99.9%? So if they find hair and can DNA match it to GBC, I am not sure why they would need to match colour and texture etc. DNA tells so much. MOO

of course I do understand any and all evidence helps towards the case. I wondered more if they were trying to piece together what actually occured to kill Allison(how events unfolded)- angle of scratches etc. However talking to a family member today and I mentioned about the scratches and they said, they'd be healed by now wouldn't they. And I think that could well be right. It has been 2 months. (all bearing in mind it is only alleged GBC killed Allison)

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Sorry..I meant this to be in reply to a private message...my mistake...

Oh, lol. Lucky it wasn't anything personal... that could have been awkward :floorlaugh:.
To answer your question anyway, i have no idea if one ring is sufficient to lodge the call... any Telstra techs here?
If it is possible though, they would respond.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Oh, lol. Lucky it wasn't anything personal... that could have been awkward :floorlaugh:.
To answer your question anyway, i have no idea if one ring is sufficient to lodge the call... any Telstra techs here?
If it is possible though, they would respond.

if you are talking from a mobile..I am not even sure if you need a ring. the connection occurs even before the phone rings. The phone company could track this information. But ah..silly me I realize you are talking about from 000 side of things. To be honest I am not really convinced any such call existed. I do really think that information that a 000 call had been attempted by Allison(from her phone) at a set time would have been released in the media when Police were asking for information and witnesses. If they had a set time where an attempted call was made. MOO

 

[Seeking]

One interesting point on the show was that it is hard to tell a high performer from a psychopath. But one element that they have observed is that psychopaths often APPEAR to be successful, well liked, attention-grabbing, but the hard evidence of success is not present i.e. they SEEM to be successful, but when you peel back the layers, it is all smoke and mirrors (all my words - just my interpretation of what was said). Psychopaths tend to thrive in the corporate world, where the environment is dynamic and change is commonplace. But when performance is analysed, it can be quite underwhelming.

Also, psychopaths are very good at reading other people's thoughts and responding in a manipulative way. But they fail to grasp the concept of empathy...and don't care that they can't do this.

Strangeworld thanks for your post. Did the program speak of ways to encourage people with this tendency to develop in a positive fashion and ways to minimize the potential that they have to harm others through acts like murder? How do you bring out "the good" in such a person and steer them away from the potential to harm others? There are several developmental disorders where a characteristic is the person's inability or diminished ability to empathize with others.....but that doesn't make them all psychopaths. Another question.....was about it being hard to tell a high performer from a psychopath......does this relate to high intelligence? The concept of being able to read other people's thoughts but not empathize intrigues me.....on the one hand they seem to know what is going on with a person...perhaps on an intellectual level...but don't relate on the feelings side.......very interesting. As a mother, I am always trying to encourage my children to develop empathy for others etc. Some children find it easier than others......just like some walk or talk earlier than others. I am probably generalizing but overall I think that many boys may be slower to develop this than girls.....and it is very hard to teach it! These are all just my opinions and thoughts about a very interesting topic. In discussing this topic I am in no way suggesting that anyone involved in this case is or isn't a psychopath. My questions are the result of someone mentioning about the television show on SBS.

 

[gmws]

Just wondering why they need his beard - (and I wonder if after he shaves it will he grow another to perhaps cover new scars etc)


They can actually tell if hair has been forcibly broken off!!! So perhaps they are looking to match a hair which was broken off on ABC with GBC's hair from the beard.Given the fact that it is mottled they might need a good distribution of colour and texture. Just a thought.

I remember reading on day 1 or 2 something to the effect of "Mr Baden-Clay has given an explanation to police for the scratches on his face."

I have thought of that several times when it has been reported that GBC had never given a statement to police. I guess I have wondered what constitutes a statement?

It has also seemed clear to me that he grew a beard to cover said scratches.

Supt Ainsworth said Mr Baden-Clay was staying with his parents and had provided "a version to police in relation to specific matters" about a scratch on his face.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...urbs-of-brisbane/story-e6freoof-1226338302828

 

[Sleuthilicious]

I think the 7:30 am call timing might have to do with the kids being dropped off back at home by the people where they were staying (BCs or others) to either get into their school uniforms or pick up their lunches, etc. because they live not far from the school anyhow. This would tie in with the rumour that the kids may have said to QPS "no, we were not home last night" (or similar). All my opinion only.

Still reading through today's posts so apologies if this has been suggested...

Perhaps GBC had no intention of being at the house that day and therefore would have not reported Allison missing until that night, but someone popped in that morning as he was cleaning up and he HAD to react. His plan might have been he was going to claim he hadn't even been in the home Thursday night/Friday morning but he left his run too late...all theoretical and IMO

 

[CaseClosed]

Yes, the earth moved for me, for sure tonight. Lol. 5.2 magnitude and the epicentre is Wilson's Promontory. A bit of a shock as was felt all over Melbourne, but particularly the Mornington Peninsula. Good news, no reports of injury or damage so far. :rocker:

5.2 is a decent shake! Timber homes are the safest, because the structure is flexible. I come from an earthquake type country and have experienced many in my lifetime (up to 7.8, which was big!). Stay safe!

 

[memorandumtopartner]

How's Nigel coping? Is Olivia in town? Where's Toni?

 

[CaseClosed]

SBS TV program tonight - Basically, they discovered that the frontal part of the brain of serial killers (like Dahmer) is different, and also the frontal sides. These areas deal with emotions, like empathy. The brain scans were analysed on a "blind" basis, not knowing which scan belonged to what type of individual. There is also a gene (now called the Warrior Gene) that is missing in these individuals. But, many people who show these traits do not become murderers (incl. the Professor, although his children said they did notice he had a foul temper sometimes, a bit scary at times). Therefore, the scientist decided to studies the upbringing of these killers and they had been abused as children and grew up in less than favourable homes. For someone to become a murderer, I understood it had to be a combination of the above 3 aspects, not just one or two.

 

[Happymedium]

WONDER WOMAN: in the ever increasing complex world, ordinary people need a place to express their opinions and IMO 'social media' as a vehicle to express opinions is here to stay. Social media operates outside of any Court room and should have no bearing on what 'evidence' is admissable inside the court room. The judge could direct a Jury to regard only evidence presented before the Court, and disregard social media opinion outside of the Court room. It that way a 'contained' space for hearing evidence specific to that case is achieved. My opinion only, not fact.

Couldn't agree more...thank you Fuskier.
Kind of like seeking advice from a 'commercial litigation lawyer' about defamation...pfft...Wonder much?
IMO

 

[Mothergoose]

If anyone watches this can they please let us know a little of what was said. I am particularly interested in the lessons that Professor Jim Fallon learned about why he didn't turn out to be a killer when he worked out that he had the profile of a psychopath, and also the different ideas that emerge about crime and punishment.

I didn't feel the earthquake...though my daughter did.......but at first she thought that it was the rats that we have been trying to get rid of (that caused us to lose heating for a week......brrrrrr!) or the possums that we are trying to distract from the cosiness of our ceiling space! Any tips on that one Possumheart......LOL. Save the possum tips for the chat room or a PM though please in the interests of the purpose of this forum.

This is what I got from the documentary that Strangeworld didn't cover. I'm tired so here goes. Hope I get it right.


Apart from what Strangeworld said it seems to have been established that there is a gene called 'The Warrior Gene' that psychopaths have, that influences lack of control when angry among other behaviors. There is also brain chemistry and brain activity difference that they can now measure (via PEP scan) in areas of the brain that develop/or not such things as empathy etc..
A murderer in the USA who was being tried for murder of a very vicious nature was tested for the warrior gene and his brain was examined via PEP scan and was found be of the same brain makeup as all the many other psychopaths in the study and was also found to have the Warrior gene.He was found guilty but escaped the death penalty (they felt) because of this evidence. One of the jurors stated after the trial that she felt the fact that accused was born with these abnormalities and suffered an abusive childhood ,that this should have been considered in the verdict.It was mentioned that if a child is born with these defects that a good loving and nurturing environment ,in at least the first 5 years of life can have a huge influence on whether the child will develop psychopathic behavior in later life.
Jim Fallon found out through his elderly mother that his cousin and their family had experienced no less than 16 murders down there family line. His mother suggested he test his immediate family (siblings etc.) in the same study. He did this and before examining the scans threw some of the scan from his study into the mix.When he defined/picked out the scan of the psychopath it was his scan. Jim Fallon believes his warm and loving childhood wiped out him being a candidate for psychopathic behavior.It was stated that this study could change the way people perceive crime and punishment.

That's as brief as I can be. It was interesting.

For anyone interested. :bedtime:

 

[Mothergoose]

SBS TV program tonight - Basically, they discovered that the frontal part of the brain of serial killers (like Dahmer) is different, and also the frontal sides. These areas deal with emotions, like empathy. The brain scans were analysed on a "blind" basis, not knowing which scan belonged to what type of individual. There is also a gene (now called the Warrior Gene) that is missing in these individuals. But, many people who show these traits do not become murderers (incl. the Professor, although his children said they did notice he had a foul temper sometimes, a bit scary at times). Therefore, the scientist decided to studies the upbringing of these killers and they had been abused as children and grew up in less than favourable homes. For someone to become a murderer, I understood it had to be a combination of the above 3 aspects, not just one or two.

:waitasec::waitasec:

You say things so intelligently and concisely. I just spent ages trying to type (arthritis is bad) what you have said so eloquently and in such a compact post. I'm not going to delete my post it took me too long :floorlaugh:

 

[Mothergoose]

SBS TV program tonight - Basically, they discovered that the frontal part of the brain of serial killers (like Dahmer) is different, and also the frontal sides. These areas deal with emotions, like empathy. The brain scans were analysed on a "blind" basis, not knowing which scan belonged to what type of individual. There is also a gene (now called the Warrior Gene) that is missing in these individuals. But, many people who show these traits do not become murderers (incl. the Professor, although his children said they did notice he had a foul temper sometimes, a bit scary at times). Therefore, the scientist decided to studies the upbringing of these killers and they had been abused as children and grew up in less than favourable homes. For someone to become a murderer, I understood it had to be a combination of the above 3 aspects, not just one or two.

I have said that the warrior gene is present. Wasn't it another gene that was missing? I'll delete my post if you are right.