http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457715,00.html
Fallout From Joran van der Sloot's 'On the Record' Interview
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: You heard Joran van der Sloot say on tape that he sold Natalee Holloway and that he told his father about it. Now, according to Joran, there is a recording of Joran and his father talking about it. Now, we have that recording. You will hear that recording shortly.
But first, what did Joran's father, Paulus, say? Did Joran really tell his father about this? We contacted Paulus van der Sloot multiple times, but he would not respond. We went down to Aruba with former prosecutor Jim Hammer to confront Paulus van der Sloot with this new information. We approached Paulus at his office, asking him to react to what Joran told us. How did Paulus react?
Jim Hammer joins us live. All right, Jim, what happened?
JIM HAMMER, FORMER ASSISTANT SAN FRANCISCO DA: Well, Greta, first of all finding Paulus is not the easiest thing. There was a lot of staking out that happens, and that tends to be just like watching the clock pass by. We went by his house, went by his office. Finally, after staking his office out one morning, there he came. I ran out to the front of his office and confronted him there. And he wanted to slip away right way, but then I said, I've got some tapes here. Joran says he's been talking to you about Natalee Holloway. That got him stopped him in his tracks, Greta.
At that point -- and they can see it in the tape there -- I hold the transcript of the actual recordings up to him and I start reading to him. They say -- he says, "But if I come forward" -- this is Joran -- "I can end all of this." His father's listening at that point. And then his father says this. And I'll tell you, to this day, it really troubles me. His father says, "But what you've done is pretty bad. Human trafficking is a serious crime."
I mean, I'm still left with shivers when I hear that. He read it along with me, asked for a copy of it, walked to his office. And I said, you know, Will you help us? Joran says that she still could be alive. At that point, he went in. I knocked on the door for a bit longer. When he came out, I said, Listen, Joran says she may still be alive. Will you help us find her? And he closed the door on my face.
VAN SUSTEREN: How was his English? Because one of the things is that, you know, we've had a hard time communicating with him. He says he can't speak English. Did you have a hard time speaking with him?
HAMMER: He spoke fine English. And again, if he had any problems speaking English, he wouldn't have been reading the transcript along with me. And I read him piece by piece, the part where he says, "Human trafficking is a serious crime," where Joran says, "You know, I could be -- let go of this whole thing if they find her alive." He paid very close attention to what I was saying, and in perfect English said, May I have a copy of that, please?
At that point, I said, I want to talk to you more about it and he went into his office. Not one time, Greta, did he have any problem understanding what we were talking about.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did he deny that he had spoken to his son and that that was a transcript of a conversation?
HAMMER: Not once. And again, it strikes me that if this were a complete fabrication or a complete off (ph), he had an opportunity to say, That's ridiculous, that never happened. He read along with me with very rapt attention, and I can't read his mind, but seemed somewhat startled by this whole thing and very intent on what I was showing him that day.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did he act confused at all, like he didn't understand what you were showing him?
HAMMER: Not once, never asked me to repeat it. He didn't interrupt me. I read these key passages to him. And again, he read along with me, Greta, as though he could understand exactly what was happening, and then in perfect English said, May I have a copy of that? I handed it him and then started to follow him in. But again, no sense whatsoever, Greta, that he -- he either disagreed with this and/or didn't understand what I was talking with him about.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you get the copy back?
HAMMER: I didn't. I did after he made a photocopy inside the office. I left him the number where we were staying. I asked him to please call. We also talked to his law partner, who I think has represented the Kalpoe brothers, again, trying to get some verification a number of times. And polite secretaries but no phone call back.
VAN SUSTEREN: Jim, thank you. And always nice to see you.
HAMMER: Thanks, Greta. You, too.
VAN SUSTEREN: Coming up: Will this new development push the Aruban authorities into action? John Q. Kelly, the lawyer for Natalee's parents, joins us live. And later, you'll hear from Natalee's mother.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAN SUSTEREN: More than three years after Natalee Holloway vanished on the island of Aruba, Joran Van Der Sloot has come forward to tell us that he sold Natalee Holloway for a bag full of cash to a mystery man on the beach. Then he contacted me to say it was all a lie.
John Q. Kelly, the lawyer for Natalee's parents, joins us live. John, just in talking to Jim Hammer, just as an aside, it occurred to me that assuming this conversation with his father was legitimate -- and we heard what John -- what Jim said about it -- this occurred in January of '08 that they're talking about trafficking. We did our interview about six months later in June, and he's talking about human trafficking. So there's a sense that that somehow -- you know, at least it's not a new story in June, if it's a lie.
Anyway, what's your thought on all this?
JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S PARENTS: You know, the most logical explanation of how Natalee could disappear, absolutely vanish into air within a half hour of being dropped off at the beach with Joran is consistent with what he said. And all the other evidence points towards it, too, that she was led down to the fisherman's hut, she was led to the shore, you know, alive, well, and led onto a small sports utility vehicle, and you know, very willingly got on board and before she knew what was happening and Joran didn't get on board, you know, the boat took off and she was subdued eventually.
VAN SUSTEREN: Now, there is absolutely no forensic evidence of a homicide, and I mean, which is unusual...
KELLY: Right.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... Not necessarily dispositive of what happened. But that's -- I mean, for someone who's inexperienced to commit a murder and not leave a hair, a blood, or anything anyplace is extremely significant. Now, let me ask you this.
KELLY: Sure.
VAN SUSTEREN: Has the prosecutor followed up on everything? Because it's the prosecutor's job to prove or disprove. And I've got a real beef with this prosecutor. He won't look at this tape. But has he satisfied you that he's chased down every lead?
KELLY: Well, not at all, Greta. I mean, there are really simple things. I mean, there was the big issue about where are Joran's size 14 Swiss K shoes? I mean, if he led her down to the beach and she and Natalee -- he and Natalee were carrying their shoes, he would have helped her on, she'd put her sandals on, and if he just threw on his shoes but instead of getting on just pushed the boat off, you know, his shoes would be gone with Natalee and her sandals.
I mean, there have been all kinds of things. There are phone logs there. I've asked for the surveillance tapes from the casinos. I haven't gotten them. I've asked him to review them. He hasn't gotten back to me on those. I've asked for phone records. I haven't gotten those. I've asked for backup on witness interviews. I haven't gotten those.
And Greta, it's just -- it's almost too simple, when you step back and look at it, what probably happened that night. It's really scary.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, now, I would -- if I were the prosecutor, I'd want to look at wire transfers, both the ones -- we have a number of a wire transfer that he should investigate from January, but even to see whether or not -- Joran says there was a payoff of some police -- whether or not there was cash drawn down from Paulus van der Sloot's account. I'd get a subpoena on that. I'd get a subpoena on all his relatives to see if any money was (INAUDIBLE)
KELLY: Sure.
VAN SUSTEREN: Anything to sort of piece together to see whether or not this is true or not, the surveillance video -- what surveillance video do you want him to look at?
KELLY: Well, for starters, if you recall -- and it was sort of pushed aside by the law enforcement also, when Joran is sitting in the Excelsior casino with Natalee and her friends, there's a middle-aged Caucasian gentlemen sitting there who actually speaks to Natalee and the other girls. And I just want to know -- you know, he absolutely fits the description of the man Joran describes. He actually looks a lot like Paulus, too.
And I just want to see whether he had talked to that man before the girls arrived, whether he talked to that man after the girls left. And quite remarkably, Hans Mos told me they've never even identified who that man is to this day.
VAN SUSTEREN: Does Hans Mos want to help investigate Deepak and Satish and Paulus or not?
KELLY: No. In fact, the first call I made to him, he said -- he asked if this had anything to do with the Dr. Phil litigation, and if it did, he would not help me because he totally supports Satish and Deepak.
And the other thing is -- let me just add, Greta, you know, Aruba is a tourist island. Their commerce -- they can survive if the story is -- you know, is one aberrant act by a young man who got caught up and panicked on an accidental death of a young girl there. That they can live with. But you know, for several young men conspiring and plotting and putting someone into human trafficking, adults covering it up, law enforcement covering it up, government officials looking away, that's something Aruba can't survive.
And I think that's why when you go down there and you present them with things or ask them questions, they want to disprove everything you say or not listen to it, rather than go after it.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, that's my rub, is they won't even investigate, you know, any of this that we have.
KELLY: Sure.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, just investigate it. Prove it or disprove it, one or the other. John, thank you.
KELLY: Sure, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Coming up: You heard Joran van der Sloot in an interview done in Thailand say he sold Natalee, but eight hours later, before we had even gotten out of Thailand, an e-mail flashed across my BlackBerry. Joran said he lied to us. Did Joran lie to us? And if so, when? When he said he sold Natalee or eight hours later, when he said it was not true? Joran's lawyer, Joe Tacopina, joins us next.
Plus, you will hear an audio recording. Joran says it is a conversation between his father and him. And two of the words mentioned on the recording that you need to pay close attention to are human trafficking. You have to hear this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAN SUSTEREN: Joran van der Sloot says he told his father Paulus that he sold Natalee Holloway to a man in Aruba. Joran says he recorded conversations between his father an him that refer to this sale and could possibly corroborate what he told us on tape.
In a moment you will hear one of those recordings that Joran says took place early in 2008. Now, we have repeatedly reached out to Joran's van der Sloot's father Paulus, but he has refused to respond.
We cannot verify whether if the voices on the tape are Joran and his father. The prosecutor in Aruba could do this with his subpoena power. And note, Joran says this is his father on the recording.
We had two different experts analyze if the recording was altered. One expert is confident it is not altered, while the other expert has concerns that the recording may have been modified. Here it is.
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Interestingly enough, the owner of the casino was furious that picture was released to Dateline(?) and it has since {disappeared} except on U.S. video.
