Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 #1

[marikesh]

I realize AVDS was in Netherlands at the time of the so called 'disappearance'. (That's probably why Paulus was out playing with his son in the casino the evening of Natalee's disappeance). That certainly doesn't mean that she wasn't fully apprised of the situation via phone or upon her return. It's my OPINION that she knows full well what occurred and was instrumental in the ongoing and never ending cover up.

Same goes for his younger brother. This is my OPINION based on everything I've seen and read over the past five and half years.

Early in the morning, according to statements, Paulus phoned Anita, saying they had a situation...that a girl Joran was last with is missing. One can be dang sure she got all the info and "took charge" from there on in.
Kids live what they learn. Per Joran, "my mother can lie".

 

[marikesh]

I don't fault Aruba, nor the Dutch, just the corrupt Justice system. They have always complained about American media's judgement of them and then they go and make such a big deal, saying enough to get interest and hope, yet Stein full well knew prior that the mandible was not that of Natalee, what were those idiots thinking? Further comments show they don't care whose mandible it was. Tourism and money is all Aruba is about. Of course we're just peons if we don't stoop and kiss, according to a prolific poster *advertiser censored* journalist.

 

[Bobbisangel]

i really thought it was her. they should test to see if its amy bradley for sure. i dunno though that bone could have came from anywhere, but why plaster it all over the news?? just shameful.

If they had had any sense they wouldn't have said a word until the results came back! How terrible to do that to the family after everything they have been through already. Shame on them. If they had kept quiet...when the results came back and it wasn't Natalie they could have kept them to themselves and no one would have been the wiser except a few people. It would have saved the family more pain.

 

[Nova]

I realize AVDS was in Netherlands at the time of the so called 'disappearance'. (That's probably why Paulus was out playing with his son in the casino the evening of Natalee's disappeance). That certainly doesn't mean that she wasn't fully apprised of the situation via phone or upon her return. It's my OPINION that she knows full well what occurred and was instrumental in the ongoing and never ending cover up.

Same goes for his younger brother. This is my OPINION based on everything I've seen and read over the past five and half years.

<modsnip>

Accusing a minor of a crime (accomplice after the fact) is a serious matter, IMHO, and should be accompanied with some sort of evidence.

 

[Nova]

Early in the morning, according to statements, Paulus phoned Anita, saying they had a situation...that a girl Joran was last with is missing. One can be dang sure she got all the info and "took charge" from there on in.
Kids live what they learn. Per Joran, "my mother can lie".

One can be "dang sure" only if one knows AVDS personally and the family dynamics very well. Even then it can be hard to say how that family behaved in an extraordinary situation.

I seriously question that any of us knows the Van Der Sloots well enough to draw these conclusions.

<modsnip>

 

[Kateyes]

I too believe that Natalee's remains were placed were no one could find them. Since Natalee disappeared two different theories have crossed my mind as to where her remains were placed, IMO, by JVS father. The first place that crossed my mind was somewhere on the VDS property - maybe under the foundation, or under the foundation to the garage. But, should Aruban LE actually get agressive and get a warrant the remains could,and I emphasize could, be found.

The second possibility is one that is even more macabre. Paulus knew many people, and it occured to me that he could have enlisted the help of a funeral director (for a sum of money) to place the body with another body being buried. During the 21 years while I lived in Orlando, Florida a funeral director in Deland (I think it was Deland,IIRC) killed his wife. He then placed her body in a casket underneath the body of a woman whose funeral was held in his funeral home. Caskets are constructed with the small mattress in it on a crank that is elevated for viewing, and is then lowered for closing of the casket. There is room under the mattress to hide a body, and this guy in Florida did it. He cracked and told police what he did after LE, and his wife's family, put a lot of pressure on him. So, that case stuck in my mind, and seemed like a near-perfect way to get rid of a dead body where no one would find it. I say near-perfect because unless the person who hides the body in this manner is himself a funeral director he would then need the help of one. That person could later reveal what he did, but in this case I doubt it. That scenario plays over and over in my mind to the point that I wonder how many funerals there were 1-3 days after Natalee went missing. I believe Paulus would be that shrewd to think along those lines. If that is what he did the chances of ever recovering Natalee's remains are very slim, IMHO.

 

[suzihawk]

<modsnip>

Accusing a minor of a crime (accomplice after the fact) is a serious matter, IMHO, and should be accompanied with some sort of evidence.

I think you may have misread/misunderstood my posts. I never accused a minor of a crime, although I can see where you may have interpreted it that way. When I said, "same goes for his younger brother...", I was referring to my opinion (that it wouldn't surprise me if he were to follow in his brother's footsteps) - NOT that he knew what occurred or was instrumental in in covering up the crime, as is my opinion of his mother. I stand by both of my opinions which are based on five and half years of voracious research and reading on this topic. Hope this helps to clear up my meaning.

Yup, I think the whole family knows exactly what happened as well as half of that corrupt island. I don't think it would do much good to question the younger brother, though. From what I see, it wouldn't surprise me if he follows in his brother's footsteps. Especially under the guidance of his mother.

I realize AVDS was in Netherlands at the time of the so called 'disappearance'. (That's probably why Paulus was out playing with his son in the casino the evening of Natalee's disappeance). That certainly doesn't mean that she wasn't fully apprised of the situation via phone or upon her return. It's my OPINION that she knows full well what occurred and was instrumental in the ongoing and never ending cover up.

Same goes for his younger brother. This is my OPINION based on everything I've seen and read over the past five and half years.

 

[suzihawk]

Frances Coleman: In Aruba, the police were at least consistent.

You can say one thing for the authorities on the island of Aruba: They’re consistent.

When Natalee Holloway disappeared five years ago, they treated her family with disrespect. Last week, when they announced that a jawbone found on an Aruban beach was not hers, they treated her family with an equal amount of disrespect.

More at link:

http://blog.al.com/press-register-commentary/2010/11/frances_coleman_in_aruba_the_p.html

 

[annalia]

Frances Coleman: In Aruba, the police were at least consistent.

You can say one thing for the authorities on the island of Aruba: They’re consistent.

When Natalee Holloway disappeared five years ago, they treated her family with disrespect. Last week, when they announced that a jawbone found on an Aruban beach was not hers, they treated her family with an equal amount of disrespect.

More at link:

http://blog.al.com/press-register-commentary/2010/11/frances_coleman_in_aruba_the_p.html

Excellent article, thank you suzihawk.

The author really summed it up perfectly sad as it is.

 

[suzihawk]

You're welcome, annalia. I thought it was a good article as well. The powers that be could have used this opportunity to try to repair their reputation. Instead they just shot themselves in the foot - yet again. IMO

 

[georger]

I too believe that Natalee's remains were placed were no one could find them. Since Natalee disappeared two different theories have crossed my mind as to where her remains were placed, IMO, by JVS father. The first place that crossed my mind was somewhere on the VDS property - maybe under the foundation, or under the foundation to the garage. But, should Aruban LE actually get agressive and get a warrant the remains could,and I emphasize could, be found.

The second possibility is one that is even more macabre. Paulus knew many people, and it occured to me that he could have enlisted the help of a funeral director (for a sum of money) to place the body with another body being buried. During the 21 years while I lived in Orlando, Florida a funeral director in Deland (I think it was Deland,IIRC) killed his wife. He then placed her body in a casket underneath the body of a woman whose funeral was held in his funeral home. Caskets are constructed with the small mattress in it on a crank that is elevated for viewing, and is then lowered for closing of the casket. There is room under the mattress to hide a body, and this guy in Florida did it. He cracked and told police what he did after LE, and his wife's family, put a lot of pressure on him. So, that case stuck in my mind, and seemed like a near-perfect way to get rid of a dead body where no one would find it. I say near-perfect because unless the person who hides the body in this manner is himself a funeral director he would then need the help of one. That person could later reveal what he did, but in this case I doubt it. That scenario plays over and over in my mind to the point that I wonder how many funerals there were 1-3 days after Natalee went missing. I believe Paulus would be that shrewd to think along those lines. If that is what he did the chances of ever recovering Natalee's remains are very slim, IMHO.

Is there a crematorium on Aruba?

 

[scandi]

Is there a crematorium on Aruba?

Yes I believe there is. I can't remember where it is right now but can find out real quick.

What haunts me is remembering the photos of the cemetary as there was a lot of pink, yellow and turquoise, the coffins being above ground I think. We looked into the possibility of her either being cremated or put into an existing coffin in that cemetary.

The thought became frightening when we learned they only keep a person's remains in a burial plot for a certain number of years and then the remains are removed and the space is given to a newly dead person.


ETA: I just looked it up and when Natalee went missing there was NO crematorium on the island. However Yolanda Wever was trying to build a crematorium. Ms. Wever was a director at a funeral home on the island at that time.

 

[suzihawk]

Yes I believe there is. I can't remember where it is right now but can find out real quick.

What haunts me is remembering the photos of the cemetary as there was a lot of pink, yellow and turquoise, the coffins being above ground I think. We looked into the possibility of her either being cremated or put into an existing coffin in that cemetary.

The thought became frightening when we learned they only keep a person's remains in a burial plot for a certain number of years and then the remains are removed and the space is given to a newly dead person.


ETA: I just looked it up and when Natalee went missing there was NO crematorium on the island. However Yolanda Wever was trying to build a crematorium. Ms. Wever was a director at a funeral home on the island at that time.

Very interesting. There was a Julitza Wever that died and was buried around the same time as Natalee's 'disappearance' that is said to have looked similar to Natalee (blonde). Some speculated that Natalee was put in the same coffin.

Also, there was a Guido Wever that was a friend of JVS. After Natalee's 'disappeance', he moved very abruptly back to Holland - within days. He was playing poker at the same casino as JVS, Paulus, et al. on May 30th. He was subsequently, questioned and released arrested about a year later. Interestingly, he is the only person in Joran's book whose name was changed ("Marco").

 

[georger]

Yes I believe there is. I can't remember where it is right now but can find out real quick.

What haunts me is remembering the photos of the cemetary as there was a lot of pink, yellow and turquoise, the coffins being above ground I think. We looked into the possibility of her either being cremated or put into an existing coffin in that cemetary.

The thought became frightening when we learned they only keep a person's remains in a burial plot for a certain number of years and then the remains are removed and the space is given to a newly dead person.


ETA: I just looked it up and when Natalee went missing there was NO crematorium on the island. However Yolanda Wever was trying to build a crematorium. Ms. Wever was a director at a funeral home on the island at that time.

Its GREAT! to have you here... thanks.

 

[hollyblue]

Very interesting. There was a Julitza Wever that died and was buried around the same time as Natalee's 'disappearance' that is said to have looked similar to Natalee (blonde). Some speculated that Natalee was put in the same coffin.

Also, there was a Guido Wever that was a friend of JVS. After Natalee's 'disappeance', he moved very abruptly back to Holland - within days. He was playing poker at the same casino as JVS, Paulus, et al. on May 30th. He was subsequently, questioned and released arrested about a year later. Interestingly, he is the only person in Joran's book whose name was changed ("Marco").

TY, I was never aware of Guido before and after googling his name, it's very apparent there are some very high rollers in this game.....Seems if one snitched on the other the whole house of cards would fall. He was arrested as an accomplice and then released.??? It's like the whole island is untouchable. Unbelievable.

 

[georger]

TY, I was never aware of Guido before and after googling his name, it's very apparent there are some very high rollers in this game.....Seems if one snitched on the other the whole house of cards would fall. He was arrested as an accomplice and then released.??? It's like the whole island is untouchable. Unbelievable.

Aruba is a colonial asset. As such, a proving ground. People move in and
out of Aruba, expected to perform and prove themselves, then move on
to bigger-better things... potentially back in the Motherland. Paulus and
his family, no exception. So Joran's antics would have been seen as very
shabby, and glossed over except behind the scenes; thus
the great pressure on Paulus & Anita. Paulus has his heart attack.

Minor players like Guido and the Kalpos can be sacrificed as well as protected
and hidden from view, to the glory of a greater cause which has 'suddenly new
uknown evidence and wants to apologise'.

Let's hope the rats start singing soon . . . with Joran tucked away safely in another
country with no chance to reprisal or redemption.

Just thinking here ... :waitasec::angel:

 

[Nova]

I think you may have misread/misunderstood my posts. I never accused a minor of a crime, although I can see where you may have interpreted it that way. When I said, "same goes for his younger brother...", I was referring to my opinion (that it wouldn't surprise me if he were to follow in his brother's footsteps) - NOT that he knew what occurred or was instrumental in in covering up the crime, as is my opinion of his mother. I stand by both of my opinions which are based on five and half years of voracious research and reading on this topic. Hope this helps to clear up my meaning.

Thank you, suzi. I did misunderstand your post and thought you were accusing the younger brother of being in on some sort of conspiracy. I appreciate the clarification.

And for the record, I never meant to question the quality or breadth of your research of this case, only to say there are limits to what anyone can know from published reports. When we venture into the private dynamics inside the VDS family, I think we tend to go beyond what we can know with any certainty, particularly since you and I will agree, I think, that the most vocal family member, Joran, is a compulsive liar.

 

[suzihawk]

Aruba is a colonial asset. As such, a proving ground. People move in and
out of Aruba, expected to perform and prove themselves, then move on
to bigger-better things... potentially back in the Motherland. Paulus and
his family, no exception. So Joran's antics would have been seen as very
shabby, and glossed over except behind the scenes; thus
the great pressure on Paulus & Anita. Paulus has his heart attack.

Minor players like Guido and the Kalpos can be sacrificed as well as protected
and hidden from view, to the glory of a greater cause which has 'suddenly new
uknown evidence and wants to apologise'.

Let's hope the rats start singing soon . . . with Joran tucked away safely in another
country with no chance to reprisal or redemption.

Just thinking here ... :waitasec::angel:

I missed this post somehow.

I'm not sure what the bolded part of your post means. But I don't think any rats are going to start singing just because Joran is tucked safely away in another country for several reasons. One being that they would implicate themselves and another (more important reason) being that it would also lead to the implication(s) of persons way higher up and of much greater importance than Joran. It's not Joran they've been afraid of all these years. JMO

 

[3doglady]

Very interesting. There was a Julitza Wever that died and was buried around the same time as Natalee's 'disappearance' that is said to have looked similar to Natalee (blonde). Some speculated that Natalee was put in the same coffin.

Also, there was a Guido Wever that was a friend of JVS. After Natalee's 'disappeance', he moved very abruptly back to Holland - within days. He was playing poker at the same casino as JVS, Paulus, et al. on May 30th. He was subsequently, questioned and released arrested about a year later. Interestingly, he is the only person in Joran's book whose name was changed ("Marco").

Wasn't Guildo the one driving JVS around (supposedly to casinos) when Beth & friends arrived at the VanderSloot house the first time? IRRC he hired a high powered attorney in Holland and refused to return to Aruba. His attorney's defense was that Guildo had nothing to do with Natalee because he is gay.

 

[suzihawk]

Wasn't Guildo the one driving JVS around (supposedly to casinos) when Beth & friends arrived at the VanderSloot house the first time? IRRC he hired a high powered attorney in Holland and refused to return to Aruba. His attorney's defense was that Guildo had nothing to do with Natalee because he is gay.

Hmmm... I can't recall if Guido was present the night that Beth et al. went to the VDS home. Will have to check. As for the rest, yup... that's the one. He was wisked off to Holland within days and his father obtained a very high powered attorney who kept him from being questioned for some time. Eventually he was returned to Aruba where he was detained and questioned, then released. I don't recall what his father did for a living, but if I'm not mistaken he had some political aspirations at the time.

You're also correct about the gay thing. (I don't know what that would have to do with whether or not he assisted in disposing of Natalee's body.) It's been speculated that he and Joran had a sexual relationship or encounter.

As I said in an earlier post, he's the only person in Joran's book whose named was changed (Marco). I find that interesting.