ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 3

[Ama11]

Does anyone know of cases of life insurance fraud where money was collected and then the supposed victim was found and the scam uncovered?

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Does anyone know of cases of life insurance fraud where money was collected and then the supposed victim was found and the scam uncovered?

There have been a number of such cases. I can't think of them right at the moment, but there are some fairly high profile ones that fit that description. Either that, or it was later determined that the beneficiary killed the deceased and the carrier came after the money. Both.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Shark infested waters? So we ar to believe this man in his 50s swam her body out to shark infested waters?
No way.

I think the suggestion was that he either swan her out on the southwest tip, where they were last seen, or he took her up toward the northeast. The "shark infested waters" I believe are up toward the northeast end of the island. So it's two separate scenarios.

That said, there was a report that a couple of sharks were seen by helicopter near Baby Beach (southern tip) on the afternoon she disappeared.

Oddly, GG's story that she cut her toe and then went back in kind of folds nicely into the possibility of sharks near Baby Beach. If she was bleeding, the sharks would get the scent. I just don't happen to believe that scenario.

 

[Mendara]

I think the suggestion was that he either swan her out on the southwest tip, where they were last seen, or he took her up toward the northeast. The "shark infested waters" I believe are up toward the northeast end of the island. So it's two separate scenarios.

That said, there was a report that a couple of sharks were seen by helicopter near Baby Beach (southern tip) on the afternoon she disappeared.

Oddly, GG's story that she cut her toe and then went back in kind of folds nicely into the possibility of sharks near Baby Beach. If she was bleeding, the sharks would get the scent. I just don't happen to believe that scenario.

Thanks I just don't think he would have enough time to do that as he was dry and wearing a different hair piece back at the Grill at a little after 6pm. She was last seen at 4:30pm in that photo - he is seen again at what 6:20pm.

He would have to get her int he water swim her out get back safely himself and then change and be at the Grill in less than two hours.

If she did get eaten by sharks while swimming then he really lucked out consideringt he policy she took out. That is just a huge coincidence.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Reading another insurance website's policies, I found out that they require a notary or additional witness to change the beneficiary on a life insurance plan. So it appears this is part of the protocol.

Who was the witness???

The ABC News source says a witness was present when Gardner named Giordano as the beneficiary on the travel insurance policy, and that Gardner was fully coherent when she signed it.

ETA: And my goodness how many bad decisions were made here.

 

[AngelFish]

Does anyone know if it would even be feasible to be married in that short of a timeframe for non-resident, US Citizens?

I don't know all the particulars, but I know of 2 couples who were married in Aruba.

One said it was a nightmare and the other to avoid the paperwork nightmare got married in the US and had a ceremony in Aruba.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

A link to the marriage requirements in Aruba was posted above. Not a particularly easy process. Requires considerable advance planning. Not likely.

And yes, Mendara, I tend to think whatever happened, happened somewhere near Nanki, Baby Beach, etc. Strange. I'm increasingly thinking he swam her out far enough for the currents to get her, and left her, either drugged too much to do anything or already dead. Nothing else makes much sense. ... Except the insurance fraud theme. But it's just so clumsy... Many years of experience tells me that your average criminal is not that bright. But the ones who choose insurance fraud, I think, tend to be slightly above the morons who commit garden variety murders. I don't know. I guess we will learn more in the coming week, as Stein will have to lay out some of his case next week in order to keep GG in custody longer.

 

[packerdog]

Was it ever determined exactly what GG was carrying when they left the restaurant? Was it a take-out container or doggy bag ? The waiter or whatever said that she ate very little of her salad. If she was planning on eating it later they most likely were headed to the hotel so that they could put it in one of those little refrigerators in the room. They wouldn't leave it in the hot car.

 

[webrocket]

some interesting developments here with the life insurance policy. I'm trying to play out some scenarios (assuming I read them correctly)

on the one hand making your travel partner the beneficiary of a travel life insurance policy does make some sense. if something happened to you abroad, there could be costs of hospitalization that might not be covered by health insurance before a person dies and the costs of transporting a body home. on the other hand, a common accident or tragedy could occur (plane crash etc) that would make the travel partner an irrational choice of beneficiary.

all that being said, $1.5 million payout? (did I read that right?) I can understand $10k, $50k or maybe even $100k, but $1.5 million?

if it was a plan by him to collect, then having the policy would make him suspect #1 with a big motive, not something a schemer would want. if it was a mutual plan to collect then the "victim" would have to be a complete i---t (I won't use a derogatory word here due to T.O.S.) to go along with it. one, the scheme could turn into real murder very easily and it would be like oops. two, even if the scheme worked out the "victim" could never share in it. the "victim" could never sue to collect his or her half and it's not like they'd run off into the sunset together to share it as people would always be following the other party around.

there is something definitely foul about a life insurance policy of that size. I still can't imagine why anyone would allow that sort of bounty to be taken out on their own life especially to one who was relatively new on the scene. I guess if we can figure out what was going through her mind when she agreed to it, then we would not be speculating like this.

 

[sunsetbeach]

Issues is going to have RF on in a little bit. They said TS has confirmed that GVG tried to cash in the LIP.

Also new news on the lady that was found hanging at the mansion and also a 50 year old star marries a 16 year old girl and they want to do a reality show. It's the guy that was in the Tom Hanks movie about the guy in prison and a mouse. I'm having a brain fart on the name of the movie. lol.

 

[Paintr]

Issues is going to have RF on in a little bit. They said TS has confirmed that GVG tried to cash in the LIP.

Also new news on the lady that was found hanging at the mansion and also a 50 year old star marries a 16 year old girl and they want to do a reality show. It's the guy that was in the Tom Hanks movie about the guy in prison and a mouse. I'm having a brain fart on the name of the movie. lol.

The Green Mile????

 

[sunsetbeach]

The Green Mile????

That's the one. :blushing:

 

[chief]

Thank you for this.

This is unnecessary drama - they know they can restrict what stations he has access to. It is not a good sign that they are even wasting time with these false accusations - they are setting up reasons to defend themselves agianst future allegations ( i hope not) of them bungling the case.

Why would they even consider giving a US prisoner like GG access to this stuff? It speaks to their incompetence.

It is clear, now, more than ever, we must ramp up our efforts and take this into our own hands.

Anyone up for a trip?

Sure! Gajonka's treat?

 

[carmenugt]

It seems to me that RG was making alot of bad decisions based on the inability to support herself. She was living in Chevy Chase with supposed boyfriend and living with friend in Frederick,MD. (significantly cheaper). She did not have her own place, I guess.
She has a supposed boyfriend of 2 1/2 years and a "relationship" with a 50 year old man who has a history of being "generous" with younger woman with an expectation of sex.
Although, she did not deserve to die but it is apparent to me that she was using GG for money and travel. He had exhibited angry behavior and yet she maintained her relationship with GG. Was she lying to both men? Probably.
It is not my attempt to disparage her character however, she seemed to be "playing" both men. That situation can only end up to be volitile. In my opinion

 

[suniskye]

Maybe GG told RG that she needed to sign the insurance papers because she already cancelled going on one trip with him previously (the cruise). Like his insurance if she backed out he'd get some money back because those policies also cover trip cancellations, etc. don't they?

 

[kimmera]

It seems to me that RG was making alot of bad decisions based on the inability to support herself. She was living in Chevy Chase with supposed boyfriend and living with friend in Frederick,MD. (significantly cheaper). She did not have her own place, I guess.
She has a supposed boyfriend of 2 1/2 years and a "relationship" with a 50 year old man who has a history of being "generous" with younger woman with an expectation of sex.
Although, she did not deserve to die but it is apparent to me that she was using GG for money and travel. He had exhibited angry behavior and yet she maintained her relationship with GG. Was she lying to both men? Probably.
It is not my attempt to disparage her character however, she seemed to be "playing" both men. That situation can only end up to be volitile. In my opinion

I agree with you, and I have to say that with each passing day I am more confused by this case. It seems that it is on MSM every day, but nothing new is coming out.

I would like to know more about the living situation with RF and CJ. RF says that RG has her own apartment in Frederick, but then it comes out that CJ is her 'part time' roommate. What does that mean, exactly? Who's apartment is this? Is RG on the lease, or does she just crash there a few nights a week? And if she liked RF enough to spend five nights a week at his place, then why not seven? :waitasec: And why does CJ seem to have issues with RF?

The other very hinky thing is, how long did she really know GG? Initially, it was reported that she had only recently met him, then friends come out and say that she knew him for at least a year, and I have heard other reports that she knew him for close to four years. If the latter is true, then that means that she knew GG when she was still married to the ex...is it possible that the ex is acquainted with GG, if that is the case?

Speaking of the ex, it seems a little strange that very little has been said about her relationship with him, especially in light of the fact that there was an ongoing issue with alimony payments. My understanding is that it is not that easy for an able-bodied, childless woman to get spousal support these days, and if so, it is usually temporary...which it is in this case. I can't help but wonder why it was awarded in this case, and why there wouldn't have been some sort of stipulation in the order that there had to be some sort of vocational training required, if RG was truly not able to support herself...

So many questions, and so few answers...I can't help but feel that there is so much here that we don't know about. Personally, I can't shake the feeling that this may be an insurance scam that she is in on, especially if the report that there was a witness to RG signing the paperwork is true. That's the only thing that would make sense if that is the case, UNLESS that is what the 'plan' was but GG decided to keep the money all for himself, unbeknownst to her. But if she is dead, where the heck is her body? Aruba just isn't that big of a place. :waitasec: All JMO! :twocents:

 

[suniskye]

I agree with you, and I have to say that with each passing day I am more confused by this case. It seems that it is on MSM every day, but nothing new is coming out.

I would like to know more about the living situation with RF and CJ. RF says that RG has her own apartment in Frederick, but then it comes out that CJ is her 'part time' roommate. What does that mean, exactly? Who's apartment is this? Is RG on the lease, or does she just crash there a few nights a week? And if she liked RF enough to spend five nights a week at his place, then why not seven? :waitasec: And why does CJ seem to have issues with RF?

The other very hinky thing is, how long did she really know GG? Initially, it was reported that she had only recently met him, then friends come out and say that she knew him for at least a year, and I have heard other reports that she knew him for close to four years. If the latter is true, then that means that she knew GG when she was still married to the ex...is it possible that the ex is acquainted with GG, if that is the case?

Speaking of the ex, it seems a little strange that very little has been said about her relationship with him, especially in light of the fact that there was an ongoing issue with alimony payments. My understanding is that it is not that easy for an able-bodied, childless woman to get spousal support these days, and if so, it is usually temporary...which it is in this case. I can't help but wonder why it was awarded in this case, and why there wouldn't have been some sort of stipulation in the order that there had to be some sort of vocational training required, if RG was truly not able to support herself...

So many questions, and so few answers...I can't help but feel that there is so much here that we don't know about. Personally, I can't shake the feeling that this may be an insurance scam that she is in on, especially if the report that there was a witness to RG signing the paperwork is true. That's the only thing that would make sense if that is the case, UNLESS that is what the 'plan' was but GG decided to keep the money all for himself, unbeknownst to her. But if she is dead, where the heck is her body? Aruba just isn't that big of a place. :waitasec: All JMO! :twocents:

RG shared an apartment with her g/f. However, she stayed with RF most of the time (according to him). Apparently she was able to work she had a job that she lost. So she was able to support herself.

From what I've read her and her X led the good life in a big house in DC and that they were well off (she had a lexus I think) until he lost his job. Most of us know one thing that will cause problems in a marriage revolve around money issues. If she was a "housewife" and didn't work in the marriage then she would have been awarded alimony based on his income. They usually award it temporarily until the woman becomes self-sufficient. If they were married 9 years and she didn't work those 9 years, that's why they most likely awarded her alimony. I've seen this happen to other people I know.

It also appears to me, in my opinion, that she didn't start altering her body until after her separation.

 

[Micheline]

(CNN) -- A man who went snorkeling with missing U.S. woman Robyn Gardner in Aruba shortly before she vanished is the beneficiary of a $1.5 million accidental death insurance policy tied to Gardner, a local official told CNN Wednesday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/0...paign=Feed:+rss/cnn_latest+(RSS:+Most+Recent)

Would a "local official" tell this to CNN?
If this were a fact would it not been kept quiet and presented to the judge Monday when he has to decide on GG's detention?

 

[OneLove]

Maybe GG told RG that she needed to sign the insurance papers because she already cancelled going on one trip with him previously (the cruise). Like his insurance if she backed out he'd get some money back because those policies also cover trip cancellations, etc. don't they?

I wonder if he had purchased high-dollar life insurance for the earlier cruise also and maybe it set her hinkey meter off so she didn't go. The Aruba trip, unfortunately, followed a blow- up with her significant other, a time when a lot of people make poor decisions.

 

[kimmera]

RG shared an apartment with her g/f. However, she stayed with RF most of the time (according to him). Apparently she was able to work she had a job that she lost. So she was able to support herself.

From what I've read her and her X led the good life in a big house in DC and that they were well off (she had a lexus I think) until he lost his job. Most of us know one thing that will cause problems in a marriage revolve around money issues. If she was a "housewife" and didn't work in the marriage then she would have been awarded alimony based on his income. They usually award it temporarily until the woman becomes self-sufficient. If they were married 9 years and she didn't work those 9 years, that's why they most likely awarded her alimony. I've seen this happen to other people I know.

It also appears to me, in my opinion, that she didn't start altering her body until after her separation.

Yes, I know she had a job in a dental office. It was first reported that she was a dental assistant, but then later changed to 'patient care coordinator' or something like that. It sounds like basically she scheduled appointments for the dental office.

My point is not to belittle her job, (hey, I work in customer care :innocent: ) but I live in Maryland and I know that type of job does not pay very well. I'm thinking 12-13.00/hr maybe, hardly enough for the 'good life' to which she had grown accustomed, IMO. For real if I were the ex, and my hard earned 2000.00 a month was going towards breast implants, mani-pedis, lip injections, spray tans, hair extensions, etc, I would be pissed! :maddening:

I feel really bad for RF in all of this. I know people question his motives, but I think that he really does love her, apparently a lot more than she cares for him. As a woman, I can't understand why she would blow off a guy that clearly seems smitten with her to go away with a creep like GG...and she even knew he was a creep! :banghead: It makes no damn sense to me, unless she thought they were going to get rich off of this, MOO...:twocents: