ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 4

[HatesSociopaths]

Have a look at this case: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20023980-504083.html

The guy was convicted in Australia and then ...

"Last year Watson pleaded guilty to manslaughter in Australia and served 18 months in a Queensland state prison for not doing enough to save his wife during a scuba dive on Australia's Great Barrier Reef in 2003.

Alabama Attorney General Troy King believes the newlywed's death was premeditated, claiming that Watson, an accomplished diver, formulated a plan in Alabama to kill his wife on their honeymoon, which gives the state jurisdiction over her death. King also said there are no international standards on double jeopardy that prevent Alabama from charging Watson a second time in the case."

Thanks. Wth is going on with Australian law where a guy who murders his wife can plead guilty to manslaughter and only have to serve a year and a half in jail?

He is currently awaiting trial in Feb, has been walking around with ankle bracelet in Alabama since Nov it sounds like. Hope justice is served.

MOO.

 

[AngelFish]

Kinda O/T but there are some crazies on that FB page set up for RG. They appear to be spewing rhetoric about Human Trafficking and attacking one or two other posters. Crazy!!

I find it kind of strange that the admins are not deleting this, as they seem to delete things that O/T or negative. It also appears that the admin team has been not as active today, makes me wonder if something is "up".

 

[kimmera]

Bruises don't surprise me at all if she has a problem w/ alcohol.

Absolutely true, for two reasons. First, people that drink to excess often have issues with falling and bumping into things, and second, if the excessive drinking impairs the liver it can cause problems with blood clotting.

I have said from the beginning that I feel that RG has a drinking problem. That was clear to me when I saw the close up pics from the MM site. RG was aging prematurely, IMO, and that is a telltale sign of drinking and/or other substance abuse. No amount of cosmetics or plastic surgery can take that away...

I also have said that there is much, MUCH more that we don't know about these people, and what their lifestyle really is. I think it's time for RF and CJ to GET REAL, if they are going to continue to put their faces on TV night after night. First we have CJ saying that she only 'knew of' GG, but come to find out she does actually know him and is very afraid of him. I wonder if RF knows him as well.

Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if ALL of the people involved here are in the 'adult' industry in some way...I am not saying that as a criticism, but I feel that there was more here than just a bad decision on RG's part. I do not want to play into any rumors floating around, so let me say that this is MOO!!!! But it also has to do with the old adage about walking and quacking like a duck. I can not think of ANY reason that an attractive and mentally healthy woman would seemingly offer herself up as a punching bag to a man that she CLEARLY knew was dangerous. I feel that this girl needed help badly, and it is so sad that no one was able to help her get it.

I think that GG is a sexual sadist. That is pretty evident by his history. It's just a shame that he was able to bully his way out of sexual assault charges, because he should have been locked up a long time ago, IMO. I think that he was well aware of RG's drinking issue, and he targeted her for that very reason. If she would have gone on the cruise with him, I guarantee she would have never come back from that.

I am in no way, shape or form blaming the victim here! This poor girl was very vulnerable and GG knew it. I hope they nail this horrible man! JMO!:twocents:

 

[Niner]

This article seems to be quoting from the NE. The NE has been known at times to have good information and get things right, but more often than not they're wrong. Probably should take this with a grain of salt for now.

JMHO

Actually, they (NE) have been right about a lot of things - one stands out - outing John Edwards...

I've skipped reading thread #3 from page 7 on and decided to read this one, so I could catch on 'what' is going on in real time, not 3 or 4 days ago! LOL!

Anyway - question - and I'm only page 3 here (I think? :crazy: ) and haven't seen it yet - but has anyone here seen a timeline of events here? If not, I've started to put one together as I read along - and if no ones done one yet - I'll go back to the former threads and try and get something together for a "temporary" timeline, since we aren't getting the 'best' news out of Aruba officials, and "misinformation" from the MSN! :loser:

I'll check later if anyone responses to my post here!

Also, question - has it been released that RG's clothing, luggage, purse, etc were at the hotel - i.e. hotel room or GVG gave her stuff to hotel staff - or had them with him when he tried to leave? Haven't seen that yet mentioned!
Thanks again! Love reading WS! Don't post much, but like to help out if I can (re timeline)! :gthanks:

 

[kljohnson0458]

Didn't go back and read but just read a post on the RG facebook page. GG has access to internet, TV and something else for now. I guess it's limited and watched. Now that is a nice tidbit isn't it. Give him his own chef!

Notice it is from RF: New info: <modsnip>
I find his plea interesting...............Hm...

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!...lson-Gardner-Missing-in-Aruba/230993886944552

 

[OneLove]

Snipped by me.

Just a reminder that not everyone feels that being a "swinger" or polyamorous is a negative trait.

Look at it this way: if GG, RF and RG are all in open relationships, that means RG was NOT a liar or a cheater. I consider that a very victim-friendly POV! :twocents:

Regardless of a possible mutually agreed upon lifestyle, it was still said that she lied by telling RF she was visiting her parents in Florida, then lied again when caught by saying her parents surprised her with a trip to Aruba. Open relationship or not, lying is lying.

 

[Niner]

Well there you have it--the Golden 3:

"Source" close to the investigation, "Allegedly", and "Claimed"
EHHH! I don't know what to think?--LOL

Your absolutely correct, R.U.Kidding! - seems to be that way when WSers have been "dealing" with foreign countries. I do recall those same Sources talking during the Holloway search! :innocent:

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Regardless of a possible mutually agreed upon lifestyle, it was still said that she lied by telling RF she was visiting her parents in Florida, then lied again when caught by saying her parents surprised her with a trip to Aruba. Open relationship or not, lying is lying.

See heres the thing, OneLove, RF is the only one that knows what she really told him. He could be just saying that to not make himself look like a fool. Frankly anything he or her friends, or her roommate say about her is all one sided--We will NEVER know what RG told any of them, unless she is found .

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Absolutely true, for two reasons. First, people that drink to excess often have issues with falling and bumping into things, and second, if the excessive drinking impairs the liver it can cause problems with blood clotting.

I have said from the beginning that I feel that RG has a drinking problem. That was clear to me when I saw the close up pics from the MM site. RG was aging prematurely, IMO, and that is a telltale sign of drinking and/or other substance abuse. No amount of cosmetics or plastic surgery can take that away...

I also have said that there is much, MUCH more that we don't know about these people, and what their lifestyle really is. I think it's time for RF and CJ to GET REAL, if they are going to continue to put their faces on TV night after night. First we have CJ saying that she only 'knew of' GG, but come to find out she does actually know him and is very afraid of him. I wonder if RF knows him as well.

Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if ALL of the people involved here are in the 'adult' industry in some way...I am not saying that as a criticism, but I feel that there was more here than just a bad decision on RG's part. I do not want to play into any rumors floating around, so let me say that this is MOO!!!! But it also has to do with the old adage about walking and quacking like a duck. I can not think of ANY reason that an attractive and mentally healthy woman would seemingly offer herself up as a punching bag to a man that she CLEARLY knew was dangerous. I feel that this girl needed help badly, and it is so sad that no one was able to help her get it.

I think that GG is a sexual sadist. That is pretty evident by his history. It's just a shame that he was able to bully his way out of sexual assault charges, because he should have been locked up a long time ago, IMO. I think that he was well aware of RG's drinking issue, and he targeted her for that very reason. If she would have gone on the cruise with him, I guarantee she would have never come back from that.

I am in no way, shape or form blaming the victim here! This poor girl was very vulnerable and GG knew it. I hope they nail this horrible man! JMO!:twocents:

Very well said. I totally agree. <modsnip> But yes, those pics very much look like a substance abuser. And yes, all the info seems to add up to a few conclusions, conclusions some people don't want to accept (or even discuss).

A woman is likely dead. To refuse to recognize or even discuss what her life was really like is an insult to her, and to others like her, and devalues her because of who and what she was. That is not "victim friendly", it is exactly the opposite.

 

[Niner]

Good, thanks. I hope the coming days will see the release of more of what LE has on this creep. I'd really like to know the exact time of that footage of the fight at the hotel.

Does anyone know offhand where the hotel is that they had the fight. I could go back and look it up, but is that the hotel where they were staying in town? If that footage happens to be between 4 and 6 pm on August 2...he's sunk.

re bold
Yes, please post, as I have that fight listed on "temporary" timeline! Also the other bold I can use! TIA! :seeya:

 

[Niner]

If they shared an apartment 6 nights a week as RF says they did, why doesn't he know she has issues sleeping? or that she has a RX for ambien? Ambien doesn't seem to be a medicine that needs to be secret.

Unless she was keeping "daywalking" (I think it was called!?) from RF.

Daywalking = Blast! NOT!! LOL!

 

[annalia]

Very well said. <modsnip> But yes, those pics very much look like a substance abuser. And yes, all the info seems to add up to a few conclusions, conclusions some people don't want to accept (or even discuss).

A woman is likely dead. To refuse to recognize or even discuss what her life was really like is an insult to her, and to others like her, and devalues her because of who and what she was. That is not "victim friendly", it is exactly the opposite.

My bolding

Nothing wrong with discussing what a victim's life was really like, but it should be fact and not conjecture posted as facts, that's what being victim friendly is. JMHO

 

[OneLove]

See heres the thing, OneLove, RF is the only one that knows what she really told him. He could be just saying that to not make himself look like a fool. Frankly anything he or her friends, or her roommate say about her is all one sided--We will NEVER know what RG told any of them, unless she is found .

Yes, I TOTALLY agree. It is why I say " it was said" rather than repeating it as though it is the gospel truth. And now that more is coming out about the "possible" lifestyle of ALL involved, it just might be reason to weave cover stories for public consumption. Especially if some of these people have offspring ( or parents, sisters, bosses, coworkers, clients, neighbors, whew, the list could go on and on LOL).

 

[OneLove]

See heres the thing, OneLove, RF is the only one that knows what she really told him. He could be just saying that to not make himself look like a fool. Frankly anything he or her friends, or her roommate say about her is all one sided--We will NEVER know what RG told any of them, unless she is found .

And, unfortunately, even if she IS found, living, and can tell "her side", can we believe it?

It might always be a "he said, she said, they said" with the truth likely somewhere convoluted in between it all.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

My bolding

Nothing wrong with discussing what a victim's life was really like, but it should be fact and not conjecture posted as facts, that's what being victim friendly is. JMHO

Almost everything that is said here is conjecture (some of it wildly so). Part of "sleuthing" has to be conjecture. Discussing possibilities and subjecting ideas to the test of collective review is, or (at least imo) should be, what this site is all about.

IMO, the most "out there" conjecture that I see in this discussion has come from people who purport to be "victim friendly" and who bristle at anything they deem morally unacceptable, or negative, about the victim. Yet, the victim almost certainly lived a life very different from most people. I guarantee you, any decent investigator is exploring all those angles and possibilities, without being concerned about whether he or she is "victim friendly" in doing so. Because a good investigator just wants the truth.

 

[wfgodot]

Nothing wrong with discussing what a victim's life was really like, but it should be fact and not conjecture posted as facts, that's what being victim friendly is. JMHO

I don't disagree with you at all, yet how are we to attain this Zen-like certainty of "what a victim's life was really like"? We have MSM reports based on interviews of people who know the two, and what I've read does draw a certain picture of what was going on. Could this picture possibly be skewered? Of course it could. We are at the mercy of our sources. What are conjectures, what are facts? Nevertheless, it makes for rather blind sleuthing not to acknowledge what has been said (while at the same time, of course, being scrupulous in our attempts to be victim-friendly as well; no matter what the lifestyle, people do not deserve to disappear).

 

[kimmera]

Very well said. I totally agree. <modsnip> But yes, those pics very much look like a substance abuser. And yes, all the info seems to add up to a few conclusions, conclusions some people don't want to accept (or even discuss).

A woman is likely dead. To refuse to recognize or even discuss what her life was really like is an insult to her, and to others like her, and devalues her because of who and what she was. That is not "victim friendly", it is exactly the opposite.

Thanks JAG. I agree, to ignore what seems to be an elephant in the room doesn't help the situation at all. I feel for this girl, in more ways than I can say...

This case is actually very personal to me, not only because I live in Maryland, but because someone very, very close to me could have been RG. My own baby sister is a recovering alcoholic and cocaine addict. She also went through a tremendous physical transformation, with the platinum hair, breast implants, tattoos, liposuction, etc. and also decided to start a 'modeling' career at a late age.

Our whole family started to wonder about all of this...different men every other week, a leased late-model Mercedes when she was working part time at a cosmetics counter in a department store, the provocative photos, all of it. And it turned out that she actually WAS doing *advertiser censored* and working as an escort.

Thankfully, she went to rehab and has been clean and sober for almost 4 years. She is now a certified yoga instructor and is pursuing a degree in nutrition and wellness. She volunteers her time as a yoga instructor in the prison system, working specifically with female addicts that are incarcerated. We are so very proud of her and all of the work she has done to get well.

When I saw the MM pics of RG, BELIEVE ME when I say that I know that glassy, bleary-eyed, vacant stare all too well. And I am haunted by the fact that MY OWN SISTER was only one county away from GG! This could have been her, and I am so thankful to God that she has left that life. I only wish that RG could have been saved somehow. Sadly, I am sure that she is not coming back alive...and this is all JMO, and of course I could be reading more into the situation than what is there, but I feel certain that this girl needed help badly. :twocents:

 

[scapa]

<<snip>>

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to have a conventional life. However, I do think she fell prey to a con artist.

I agree with this. I think a big part of the tension here and elsewhere concerning which details of RGs "lifestyle" to highlight has to do with the gap between how a person's choices are viewed within her/his sphere and how they might appear when under the glare of the mainstream media microscope, when private and perfectly sensible (in context) decisions on sexual preference and conduct are re-contextualized: no longer are you simply Citizen X meeting possible romantic/sexual partners online, as tens of thousands of people now undoubtedly do every day, you're a crime victim whose choices are understood to be part of a particular cluster of causes. From this point on your behaviour is somehow seen to "lead" to a result that, commentators may say with hindsight, was always already going to be risky.

I guess my point is that risk, of the kind RG seems to have been dealing with, is hard to predict. Who knows how clear a sense she might have had of GG's violent tendencies? His financial woes? His foolish pride in his stable of fancy hairpieces? His fondness for drinking hard likker (and crushedAmbien?) from a flask when dining out to save a few bucks on a bar bill?

In my line of work, oddness abounds. I see different "lifestyles" all around me and while many wouldn't suit me, I would hate hate hate to be the sort of person who could say "I told you so" should something terrible happen to someone who lives differently than I do.

I have no issue with looking carefully into a possible perp or victim's background for illumination about cause, motive and means, but I can't stand the prurience that seems part and parcel of cases where victims are young, female and attractive and/or there is a possible element of illicit (especially) sexual misconduct that, for reasons I suppose of titillation, gets rehashed again and again. To me, RG's various plastic surgeries fall into that area. Does anyone really think there is a plausible causal link between those and the "kind of person" she really was? Or the "kind of person" who might attack and/or kill her?

End rant/


s

 

[Kamille]

Has it ever been determined how far into the cruise booking GG got before RG cancelled on him? Was there an insurance policy purchased for that trip too? Or at least a request for insurance forms to be sent to him? I would think it would have been easier to have someone disappear on a cruise ship so perhaps he was planning this back then?

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Thanks JAG. I agree, to ignore what seems to be an elephant in the room doesn't help the situation at all. I feel for this girl, in more ways than I can say...

This case is actually very personal to me, not only because I live in Maryland, but because someone very, very close to me could have been RG. My own baby sister is a recovering alcoholic and cocaine addict. She also went through a tremendous physical transformation, with the platinum hair, breast implants, tattoos, liposuction, etc. and also decided to start a 'modeling' career at a late age.

Our whole family started to wonder about all of this...different men every other week, a leased late-model Mercedes when she was working part time at a cosmetics counter in a department store, the provocative photos, all of it. And it turned out that she actually WAS doing *advertiser censored* and working as an escort.

Thankfully, she went to rehab and has been clean and sober for almost 4 years. She is now a certified yoga instructor and is pursuing a degree in nutrition and wellness. She volunteers her time as a yoga instructor in the prison system, working specifically with female addicts that are incarcerated. We are so very proud of her and all of the work she has done to get well.

When I saw the MM pics of RG, BELIEVE ME when I say that I know that glassy, bleary-eyed, vacant stare all too well. And I am haunted by the fact that MY OWN SISTER was only one county away from GG! This could have been her, and I am so thankful to God that she has left that life. I only wish that RG could have been saved somehow. Sadly, I am sure that she is not coming back alive...and this is all JMO, and of course I could be reading more into the situation than what is there, but I feel certain that this girl needed help badly. :twocents:

Beautiful post, kimmera. Really. It's tremendous (and lucky, as you obviously know) that your little sister was able to turn her life around, and now can help others. Every woman out there is somebody's little girl, and every man somebody's little boy. And maybe somebody's little sister, or brother, too. Every time I look at my own children, fear strikes at my heart for what could happen to them. It's a strange thing, being a parent. Changes you.

And you know, we were reminded the other day that even GG is somebody's little boy.

I think maybe what "God" is, is the part of us that reminds us of these things.

... Sorry for the weighty post. Your comments just kind of touched that part of me.

Carry on.