ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 6

[R.U.Kidding!]

ARUBA
27. The Committee is concerned that pretrial detention, as acknowledged by the State party, is lengthy, averaging 116 days and lasting up to a maximum of 146 days, after which the examining magistrate may extend it for a further 30 days. (arts. 9 and 14)


http://sim.law.uu.nl/SIM/CaseLaw/un...bdfca6e36ff70955c125761f00379009?OpenDocument

Thanks, Dushi,

So they can and probably will hold GG for the entire 176 days. I don't think they want to admit they have nothing, so they are just going to hang onto him, hoping something will turn up to charge him.

Seems like in three months, though, they should have had enough to charge him. It is amazing how "people" just disappear, no trace:waitasec:

 

[Blueskies]

Why would gary Giordano leave a bloody towel on the beach for police or witnesses to find?

Good question. Perhaps he was in a hurry?

According to Diarioaruba he was seen twice on video parking that car. The first time was about 10 minutes before 6 where he left and came back. What DID he forget where it took him 10 minutes? The two towels and her dress?

Another article quoted a witness as saying she thought it was strange seeing the dress such a far distance from where the two towels were placed.

 

[LambChop]

And, still, the ex-husband would not be removed from the equation. Or do you disagree?

The ex owed her a very little amount and then he was through with payments to her. There would be no incentive for him to be involved. If there were a paper trail the FBI would have found it by now. You just can't hide anything today. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Thanks, Dushi,

So they can and probably will hold GG for the entire 176 days. I don't think they want to admit they have nothing, so they are just going to hang onto him, hoping something will turn up to charge him.

Seems like in three months, though, they should have had enough to charge him. It is amazing how "people" just disappear, no trace:waitasec:

Aruba can hold you for those entire 176 days. They have some evidence or he would not be there this long but it appears they have not decided if it is enough to try him. Their rules are different they can hold you for that length of time while they are building a case. They also don't have to disclose what they have so we really don't know what they have found, only that they are not ready to charge him. Perhaps they are waiting for the remains to come ashore. jmo

 

[Dushi]

Good question. Perhaps he was in a hurry?

According to Diarioaruba he was seen twice on video parking that car. The first time was about 10 minutes before 6 where he left and came back. What DID he forget where it took him 10 minutes? The two towels and her dress?

Another article quoted a witness as saying she thought it was strange seeing the dress such a far distance from where the two towels were placed.[/QUote


i really don't see anything strange about the dress being separate from the towels
The dress appeared light weight, it would blow in the wind

And the point about the towels... if swimming towels or a towel would be present, a part of the set up. but he left a towel with blood on it

 

[CanManEh]

I really find it hard to believe that they cant find her remains if she is infact deceased .Mind you I have never been there myself but its not that big , does anyone know the actual size of the island like how long would it take to drive from one side to the other if its not that big you would think in the time thats passed cadaver dogs would have found something and since they havn't hit on anything the only other possibility is the water and you would have to go out pretty far for her to not too wash back up or the divers to see her . I just dont know how you get rid of someone that quick in a tourist location with out being spotted and still not have found the body to me it all leads to him somehow getting her out to sea on land i think she woulda been found in my oppinion.

 

[Dushi]

I really find it hard to believe that they cant find her remains if she is infact deceased .Mind you I have never been there myself but its not that big , does anyone know the actual size of the island like how long would it take to drive from one side to the other if its not that big you would think in the time thats passed cadaver dogs would have found something and since they havn't hit on anything the only other possibility is the water and you would have to go out pretty far for her to not too wash back up or the divers to see her . I just dont know how you get rid of someone that quick in a tourist location with out being spotted and still not have found the body to me it all leads to him somehow getting her out to sea on land i think she woulda been found in my oppinion.

The island is small, approximately seventy seven square miles
The land is rugged, so driving around some areas takes longer than you would think
Lots of traffic in the downtown and hotel districts
Enough to slow you down

 

[OneLove]

>> snipped << I really find it hard to believe that they cant find her remains . I just dont know how you get rid of someone that quick in a tourist location with out being spotted and still not have found the body to me it all leads to him somehow getting her out to sea on land i think she woulda been found in my oppinion.

And yet there is Natalee Holloway, who disappeared in a flash, never having been found. There are still reports of her remains being in various places on the island, although the perp's own confession puts her out to sea.

If Robyn is out to sea, then GG had an accomplice and it was quite premeditated. Joran V. had a bad daddy and lots of local connections to make that disappearance possible so fast afterwards. Not so GG, unless he made prior arrangements or already knew someone.

Oh wait....... I forget how easy it is to buy a sleaze bag crook when you're a sleaze bag yourself. Neeeever miiiind.

 

[neesaki]

I would think that human trafficing is a possibility everywhere to some extent
I expect Aruba is no different.
Human trafficing can also mean smuggling people for reasons other than the sex trade, such as illegal jobs




News & Updates
US Ranked on Human Trafficking Report for First Time
June 15, 2010

The United States was ranked for the first time in the 10th annual Trafficking in Persons (TIP) Report documenting human trafficking and modern slavery, released on Monday by the Department of State. The report found that in America men, women, and children were subject to trafficking for “forced labor, debt bondage, and forced prostitution.”


http://www.humantrafficking.org/updates/875

I have read before about the human trafficking for labor on the islands, that is certainly more prevalent than for sex trafficking. Not saying Robyn was a victim of this, but just saying that it cannot be overruled as a possibility.
It is strange there have been no signs of her remains, so I can understand Robert Forrester's point of view.

 

[neesaki]

But as the case stands right now the disappearance of Robyn Gardner is a mystery - no sightings &#8211; no body and the very little if any evidence. The police have recently said they found some blood on a towel she used but when they questioned Gary Giordano about the blood, he had a solid reply &#8211; quote &#8211; &#8216;Robyn cut her foot on a rock and she wiped her foot on the towel&#8217; To observers the Aruba Police will have to come up with something way more substantial for them to have a single chance of being able to legally charge Gary Giordano with any offence that will need to be backed up with DNA or similar evidence that will ensure they can verify and/or prove that he is culpable in some way into the mystery of the missing Robyn Gardner!

Latest official statement from the legal counsel for Gary Giordano &#8211; quote - "Our client is innocent and there has been a lot of investigation already," &#8211; more - "There is no evidence, and his life is being destroyed." - Attorney Chris Lejuez.

What have the Aruba Police got on Gary Giordano in the Robyn Gardner case &#8211; Zilch&#8230;

http://www.cityjournalistdirectory....ordano_in_the_robyn_gardner_case_zilch_17401/

So according to GG, Robyn, the "all about appearances" worried about her hair extensions, hair color and makeup, kind of girl, would cut her toe on a rock enough to bleed on a towel, THEN go snorkeling in a rocky area of the ocean, while drunk as a skunk and right before dark. hmmmmm. I can see her going in the ocean allright. But unfortunately not of her own accord. Also, they haven't said how much blood there was on the towel. A serious injury would produce a larger amount of blood than a little cut to the toe. I'm sure that LE is purposely keeping that info under the radar. JMO.

 

[neesaki]

Aruba can hold you for those entire 176 days. They have some evidence or he would not be there this long but it appears they have not decided if it is enough to try him. Their rules are different they can hold you for that length of time while they are building a case. They also don't have to disclose what they have so we really don't know what they have found, only that they are not ready to charge him. Perhaps they are waiting for the remains to come ashore. jmo

They are reportedly waiting on some of the forensics on the phones and computers. The more evidence they have the stronger their case and ability to get a conviction. I believe there must be something or the judge would not have given the extention. JMO

 

[Dushi]

And yet there is Natalee Holloway, who disappeared in a flash, never having been found. There are still reports of her remains being in various places on the island, although the perp's own confession puts her out to sea.

If Robyn is out to sea, then GG had an accomplice and it was quite premeditated. Joran V. had a bad daddy and lots of local connections to make that disappearance possible so fast afterwards. Not so GG, unless he made prior arrangements or already knew someone.

Oh wait....... I forget how easy it is to buy a sleaze bag crook when you're a sleaze bag yourself. Neeeever miiiind.

I am sure its not hard to buy "a sleaze bag crook" but i would think it would require connections, money etc
GG was not on the island for very long before Robyn went missing, so did he bring someone with him?
I can't see how he could set that up and from what we have read, he had no money to pay anyone

IF robyn was murdered, I agree with lambchop, its would not be difficult to toss someone off of a cliff and hope they wash ashore
If you belive this was about insurance, the body coming ashore is what he would want

LE has denied the rumor about the dog grave burial
Have they denied the rumor of the tattooed man?

 

[Dushi]

They are reportedly waiting on some of the forensics on the phones and computers. The more evidence they have the stronger their case and ability to get a conviction. I believe there must be something or the judge would not have given the extention. JMO

LE has been extremely careful about what is reported
We have no idea what they have

But remember, all they need to hold him is a strong suspicion

If they don't bring charges soon, i think we will know
The next period of incarceration requires stronger evidence

 

[LambChop]

I have read before about the human trafficking for labor on the islands, that is certainly more prevalent than for sex trafficking. Not saying Robyn was a victim of this, but just saying that it cannot be overruled as a possibility.
It is strange there have been no signs of her remains, so I can understand Robert Forrester's point of view.

I think the possibilities are extremely low. He was the last one to see her and sometimes it is what it is. In this case it appears he killed her for the insurance money. I'm sure he expected her to be found within a day or two but if she went off the cliffs, the currents are very strong there and she could have been drug further out.

Curious that the helicopters were not able to see anything in the water after she was reported missing. Those helicopters are up in the air all the time. They are constantly running up and down the beach areas.

Plus GG's excuse that he had difficulties getting back into shore because of the current. How hard is it to swim with sneakers on? And his hair? How did he keep is hair looking as if he had never been in the water?

How disappointed he must have been when her body did not come back to shore within a couple of days. Who says, "Well, she must be dead by now." Tells me he pushed her off the cliff while she was still alive or why even make that type of a statement.

If you could see the cliffs in Aruba you would say to yourself "if someone were to fall off this cliff from here they could easily get pulled out to sea and never be found". jmo

 

[Dushi]

I think the possibilities are extremely low. He was the last one to see her and sometimes it is what it is. In this case it appears he killed her for the insurance money. I'm sure he expected her to be found within a day or two but if she went off the cliffs, the currents are very strong there and she could have been drug further out.

Curious that the helicopters were not able to see anything in the water after she was reported missing. Those helicopters are up in the air all the time. They are constantly running up and down the beach areas.

Plus GG's excuse that he had difficulties getting back into shore because of the current. How hard is it to swim with sneakers on? And his hair? How did he keep is hair looking as if he had never been in the water?

How disappointed he must have been when her body did not come back to shore within a couple of days. Who says, "Well, she must be dead by now." Tells me he pushed her off the cliff while she was still alive or why even make that type of a statement.

If you could see the cliffs in Aruba you would say to yourself "if someone were to fall off this cliff from here they could easily get pulled out to sea and never be found". jmo

I had a neighbour who wore a toupee, I never knew until he removed it one day.
My point is, he swam daily while wearing it, never removed it til he took it off forever. I suppose there are many different kinds of toupees.

I don't believe GG went snorkelling that day
I don't have anything solid to base that on, its just a feeling, my opinion

Things just don't add up, the location, the visit the day before,his actions after Robyn disappeared.... the fisherman...

There are so many things about all of this that make me go "hmmmmmmm"

 

[Dushi]

I also don't put much value in his statement, "Well, she must be dead by now"
Even if I do not believe his story, that comment doesn't make him appear guilty IMO

He says they were in the water together, got into trouble, he got back to shore, she didn't.
My first thought in that situation would be that she must be dead.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

LE has been extremely careful about what is reported
We have no idea what they have

But remember, all they need to hold him is a strong suspicion

If they don't bring charges soon, i think we will know
The next period of incarceration requires stronger evidence

DUSHI,
Just using your post as a jumping off point for my comment. Not directed at you.

Well they have had him for 3 months and his "story" remains the same , no inconsistencies. If he is as dumb as many suspect he is, how does he make someone disappear in 2 hours with absolutely no "trace".:ufo:

.....and I know every time I say something that favors GG people go crazy--like I'm saying he is innocent. So let's not go there, because that is not what I am getting at. However, I just find it hard to believe that someone can be incarcerated for more than 5 months on "suspicion". ....and yes I know the Aruban authorities must have evidence we are not privy to, but apparently not enough to charge him. If GG (or anyone) is held for the total of 176 days without a body, I would hope there is accountability for each extension and it is "public record". Sorry, my point is, does anyone know the logic behind this system?:waitasec:

 

[Dushi]

I don't get the towel
As a poster mentioned (sorry, don't remember who, Neesaki??) we have no idea about the amount of blood.

I keep thinking it must be a small amount because if not, I do not understand why he would leave it behind. he had time to set everything up as nobody knew she was missing until he called the alarm.

 

[Dushi]

DUSHI,
Just using your post as a jumping off point for my comment. Not directed at you.

Well they have had him for 3 months and his "story" remains the same , no inconsistencies. If he is as dumb as many suspect he is, how does he make someone disappear in 2 hours with absolutely no "trace".:ufo:

.....and I know every time I say something that favors GG people go crazy--like I'm saying he is innocent. So let's not go there, because that is not what I am getting at. However, I just find it hard to believe that someone can be incarcerated for more than 5 months on "suspicion". ....and yes I know the Aruban authorities must have evidence we are not privy to, but apparently not enough to charge him. If GG (or anyone) is held for the total of 176 days without a body, I would hope there is accountability for each extension and it is "public record". Sorry, my point is, does anyone know the logic behind this system?:waitasec:

LOL, I know what you mean
I don't believe that GG is innocent of some involvement either and i too, hesitate to comment on my thoughts and questions about certain aspects of this.
It would seem that he has committed a perfect crime in as much as there is little evidence of value that we have seen.

As far as I know, these hearings have been closed so I do not know how much public accountability there is.

The system is different than we are used to.
If a judge decides there is enough suspicion of a crime, incarceration is extended while further evidence is gathered.

I can only hope there is much more evidence than we are privy to, however, the longer they go without bring charges, the less faith I have in that.

If I sit back and look at all sides of this.... well, I still don't know what happened :waitasec:

 

[Dushi]

Aruba Judicial System

Aruba's legal system is based on the civil law system, as in use throughout most of the world. The main difference between our system of law and the common law system is the fact that we do not have juries or grand juries. In Aruba, the investigation by the police and prosecutor is checked and balanced by a judge of the Court of First Instance. The investigating judge conducts all interrogations of witnesses during the investigation of the crime. The trial itself is conducted and decided (including sentencing) by another judge, and the final verdict can be appealed. The suspect can appeal decisions made by the judge through the Court of Appeals.


Aruba criminal system is mirrored after the Dutch criminal justice system. It traditionally distinguishes itself from other criminal justice systems including the U.S. on many aspects including the severity of sanctions imposed.


http://www.aruba.com/explorearuba/islandfacts/law.aspx