AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #1

[crabstick]

Dam well spotted too

Suitcase Key, Karlie

It looks like a lightweight key for a padlock, say to a suitcase?

Not a house key.

 

[The Dark Shadow]

This is so tragic :-(. I'm actually really glad Karlie's mum isn't still alive to hear this news.
Waaay back in thread #1, I said:

"It's the disregard for the remains (including the suggestion that he/she met a horrible end), in combination with the location they were found in, that makes me think it was somebody not emotionally tied to the victim.

Where remains are oviously badly treated, dismembered and left in a careless location, it can also signify that the dumper wants to send a message to the police, public or victim's family. In fact, the method of disposal (at the side of a road) - when looked at historically - matches the methods of many past serial killers! I don't think this is the case with this little angel though. Well, I seriously hope not anyway!"

(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Discovered-July-15-1&p=11937929#post11937929)

I'm now beginning to suspect that I was wrong (when I said 'I don't think this is the case') and this IS the work of somebody with a history of similar crimes. It'll be interesting (but sad) to learn whether the offender has a history of violent or fatal crimes against young women, or whether children make up the majority of his past victims. I'm thinking that perhaps Karlie was the primary target.
Regardless, I am looking forward to an arrest and knowing that another evil will be incapacitated with life in prison!



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[Panda]

Does anyone know what the procedure is for travelling across state borders these days? Do they search cars, etc, or do they take your word for what you say you are or are not carrying. It's been many years since I've done a state crossing and am now unfamiliar with the process.

 

[DutchTreat]

I'm assuming the immunization schedule is the same in South Australia - in VIC, after the 18-month jabs, the next scheduled shots are the pre-school ones (age 4-5). If she went missing/ died between those times it would not have raised any alarm bells. And even if she missed her 4-5yo jabs, the health authorities may have contacted her family doctor and been told "we haven't seen her for 2 1/2 years - we don't have a current address for her".

But her name should have showed up now in 2015 been off the grid after her 18 month old vaccination. She would have been 9 years old now. She should have been in school, had more vaccinations etc.
And combined with a missing persons report that was once filed (but closed a week later), her name should have showed up.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Does anyone know what the procedure is for travelling across state borders these days? Do they search cars, etc, or do they take your word for what you say you are or are not carrying. It's been many years since I've done a state crossing and am now unfamiliar with the process.

Usually you just drive on through, there's no checkpoint or anything .. just a 'Thank you for visiting [state name]' then a 'Welcome to [next state name]' sign, except on SA borders where you may be stopped and your car checked for fruit

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Being young (18yo when she had Khandelyce) and small & with a slight build, she may have had a C-section. It would mean the pelvis never got to stretch by having a baby pass through the birth canal. Her slight build (remember that her fellow netball players called her "Mouse" because she was small and very quick) would also explain why estimates of her age tended to be towards the lower side. I actually read estimates of 13-25 and 15-25 which are actually correct.

Interesting, but doesn't the hormone relaxin cause the hips to widen during pregnancy?
ETA: actually, looks like the action of relaxin in widening of the pelvis isn't a certainty

There is also some evidence that relaxin can relax the ligaments at the front of the pelvis to ease delivery of the baby.

From : http://www.yourhormones.info/hormones/relaxin.aspx


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[DutchTreat]

"The chemical markers that were in her tissue and bones indicated she had not spent much time in Australia," Detective Sergeant Tim Attwood told Fairfax Media. [/I]


http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/little-gi...tim-of-wynarkas-homicide-20150923-gjt1ah.html

I really hope they will comment on that in the future. How it was possible that they were so wrong.

Does anyone know how that could have happened?

 

[MadDoc]

The facial anthropologist probably also based the reconstruction on the facial features of a 12 year old. I bet if she had been told to reconstruct the face of a 20 year old mother living a hard life, it would have been stunning.

The drawing of the facial reconstruction that I have seen shows a girl with a fuller, more chubby face but otherwise a reasonably good resemblance. If they had slimmed down the face to that of a slender 20-year-old instead of a robust 12-year-old, I think it would have been pretty spot on.

 

[sleepinoz]

Usually you just drive on through, there's no checkpoint or anything .. just a 'Thank you for visiting [state name]' then a 'Welcome to [next state name]' sign, except on SA borders where you may be stopped and your car checked for fruit

I think the main checks on state borders are for fruit and you mainly get checked coming from NSW into states such as SA and Vic as they don't want the fruit fly that is in NSW.

Leaving SA and Vic there are far fewer checks than entering.

 

[MadDoc]

Interesting, but doesn't the hormone relaxin cause the hips to widen during pregnancy?
ETA: actually, looks like the action of relaxin in widening of the pelvis isn't a certainty
From : http://www.yourhormones.info/hormones/relaxin.aspx


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True, but relaxin works on the ligaments and cartilage that hold the pelvic bones together, not the bone itself. If all you have is bone (skeletal remains) you wouldn't be able to see any of that fibrous/ gristly softer tissue. Mind you, I suppose that applies to any evidence of her not having given birth the usual way.

 

[sleepinoz]

I really hope they will comment on that in the future. How it was possible that they were so wrong.

Does anyone know how that could have happened?

This is obviously a scientific error made with the results from test's done on bones and whatever other remains they had to work with. Any explanation would be something complex I imagine.

I hope that nobody is blaming the Police for this.

 

[silverau]

This is obviously a scientific error made with the results from test's done on bones and whatever other remains they had to work with. Any explanation would be something complex I imagine.

I hope that nobody is blaming the Police for this.

No blaming here - just disappointed all stock was put in that identification process. (on saying she wasn't in australia long). On the bright side - at least that process can be tuned now!

 

[minime]

I hope they have looked through all the old, rusty, abandoned cars littered around Wynarka, just in case there is a Holden Commodore amongst them.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This was actually published at the beginning of this month - uncanny that SMH compared the two cases!

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/little-girl-lost-trying-to-identify-the-nameless-victim-of-wynarkas-homicide-20150923-gjt1ah.html



and then the very last sentence



Published Oct 2nd 2015. The calls to crimestoppers came about a week and a half later.

Very uncanny.

Like the Wynarka case, police made extensive inquiries about the clothing Angel wore, particularly a shirt with the word "Angelic" across it. A description of the T-shirt made in China was widely published but not one person has contacted police to report owning one.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/little-gi...s-homicide-20150923-gjt1ah.html#ixzz3pLc4kdUa

"description of the T-shirt made in China"

The t-shirt (it's design and colours) and the text above re t-shirt (China) made me think of a possible connection. So the most ridiculous little things maybe important in case of missing people to lead the public in a new direction and for police finally to get a helpful call.

 

[The Dark Shadow]

True, but relaxin works on the ligaments and cartilage that hold the pelvic bones together, not the bone itself. If all you have is bone (skeletal remains) you wouldn't be able to see any of that fibrous/ gristly softer tissue. Mind you, I suppose that applies to any evidence of her not having given birth the usual way.

Thanks MadDoc . During my last pregnancy (which wasn't my first), I had terrible pelvic ligament pain and could actually feel and visibly see my hips widening during late pregnancy. I don't remember experiencing that with my first pregnancy though, so maybe hip widening does occur during pregnancy, but only with subsequent pregnancies after a natural birth? IMO


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[Panda]

I think the main checks on state borders are for fruit and you mainly get checked coming from NSW into states such as SA and Vic as they don't want the fruit fly that is in NSW.

Leaving SA and Vic there are far fewer checks than entering.

Do they physically search your vehicle though, or do they take you at your word? Are there specific times that they set up border controls. I.e. do they have border control 24/7, or only during day times, etc. I'm thinking along the lines that if you were carrying a body from one state to another, specifically from SA into NSW, would there be a risk of your vehicle being searched. I'm also wondering how it works with fruit growers who transport fruit from one state to another. I'm presuming if you're a fruit grower and transport fruit, you would provide documentation to allow you through.

 

[visioneye]

My understanding is that most of the effects of pregnancy and childbirth on the pelvis, (affected by pregnancy hormones, weight of neonate and delivery injuries), occur in most instances in the soft tissues and ligaments, which would have deteriorated by the time Karlies skeleton was located. Any diastasis of the symphysis pubis (if the pelvis was intact) would probably have self corrected by two years post partum. The occurrence of fractures of the symphysis pubis etc, which historically may have indicated traumatic delivery, is almost non existent in modern childbirth.
Also keep in mind there are other causes of this type of skeletal change, (such as sporting or motor vehicle accident), which affect young women.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diastasis_symphysis_pubis

 

[crabstick]

I do wonder because Karlie was apparently transient that chemical markers may have been distorted via things like water consumption. Who knows, bottled water may have been imported; Karlie was in 3 states.
Some testing may not be bullet proof.

I really hope they will comment on that in the future. How it was possible that they were so wrong.

Does anyone know how that could have happened?

Inquiries were made with state agencies that deal with young runaways


They looked at the cases of missing children, like Quanne Diec, a 12-year-old who disappeared from Granville in 1998, but none matched up. Angel's DNA profile was handed to interpol but to date, investigators haven't had any matches.
They also explored the theory the girl came into Australia illegally and wasn't registered on any immigration records.
In a first for the NSW Homicide Squad, a facial anthropologist was brought in to create a image of what the girl's face may have looked like. A stable isotopes analysis was also done on her bones.
"The chemical markers that were in her tissue and bones indicated she had not spent much time in Australia," Detective Sergeant Tim Attwood told Fairfax Media.


http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/little-gi...tim-of-wynarkas-homicide-20150923-gjt1ah.html

This is where they went wrong. Looking for 12 year old runaways in stead of a 20 year old mother. And for someone who had not spend much time in Australia. While she in fact had lived there all her life.
They narrowed it down so much that if it hadn't been for the Wynarka remains, both probably never would have gotten a name.

This is obviously a scientific error made with the results from test's done on bones and whatever other remains they had to work with. Any explanation would be something complex I imagine.

I hope that nobody is blaming the Police for this.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Do they physically search your vehicle though, or do they take you at your word? Are there specific times that they set up border controls. I.e. do they have border control 24/7, or only during day times, etc. I'm thinking along the lines that if you were carrying a body from one state to another, specifically from SA into NSW, would there be a risk of your vehicle being searched. I'm also wondering how it works with fruit growers who transport fruit from one state to another. I'm presuming if you're a fruit grower and transport fruit, you would provide documentation to allow you through.

Plenty of times they've just taken me at my word, or not even bothered walking over, and you're supposed to just dump any fruit in a bin provided.

I think it must depend where you cross, because I usually head into South Australia from Broken Hill, but I imagine if you're coming via Mildura it'd be tighter.

 

[crabstick]

KARLIE JADE “ANGEL” TIMELINE

November 8, 2008: Karlie Jade last seen with her daughter Khandalyce on Stuart Highway near Coober Pedy, SA

September 4, 2009: Reported missing by Karlie’s mother. Withdrawn six days later after Karlie made contact with her mother.

August 29, 2010: Unidentified female’s body found in the Belanglo State Forest south of Sydney

September 15, 2010: Ivan Milat ruled out as a suspect

December, 2011: Police appeal for help from public, release computer-generated image created by Australia’s only facial anthropologist

November, 2012: Police entertain theory that Ivan Milat’s nephew Matthew could have been involved with ‘Angel’s’ death

October 21, 2015: Police announce they have identified ‘Angel’ as Karlie Jade Pearce-Stevenson

KHANDALYCE KIARA PEARCE TIMELINE

November 8, 2008: Khandalyce last seen with her mother Karlie Jade on Stuart Highway near Coober Pedy, SA

September 4, 2009: Reported missing by Karlie’s mum

October 9, 2009: Missing person’s report withdrawn

April/May, 2015: Strange man, about 60, seen carrying a suitcase seen heading out of Wynarka, SA

July 14, 2015: The bones of Khandalyce were found in a weathered suitcase dumped beside a South Australian highway 1.5km outside the tiny town of Wynarka

July 29, 2015: 43 children including Madeleine McCann ruled out as the potential victim. William Tyrell also ruled out quickly.

October 21, 2015: Police announce they have identified the young girl as Khandalyce Kiara Pearce, from Alice Springs

October 22, 2015
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...lSF&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Twitter

5char

Website: news.com.au
Title: Detectives link Wynarka girl’s bones in suitcase to ‘Angel’ bones in Belanglo
Author: n/a
October 22, 2015
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...lSF&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Twitter

I really hope they will comment on that in the future. How it was possible that they were so wrong.

Does anyone know how that could have happened?

Inquiries were made with state agencies that deal with young runaways


They looked at the cases of missing children, like Quanne Diec, a 12-year-old who disappeared from Granville in 1998, but none matched up. Angel's DNA profile was handed to interpol but to date, investigators haven't had any matches.
They also explored the theory the girl came into Australia illegally and wasn't registered on any immigration records.
In a first for the NSW Homicide Squad, a facial anthropologist was brought in to create a image of what the girl's face may have looked like. A stable isotopes analysis was also done on her bones.
"The chemical markers that were in her tissue and bones indicated she had not spent much time in Australia," Detective Sergeant Tim Attwood told Fairfax Media.


http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/little-gi...tim-of-wynarkas-homicide-20150923-gjt1ah.html

This is where they went wrong. Looking for 12 year old runaways in stead of a 20 year old mother. And for someone who had not spend much time in Australia. While she in fact had lived there all her life.
They narrowed it down so much that if it hadn't been for the Wynarka remains, both probably never would have gotten a name.

But her name should have showed up now in 2015 been off the grid after her 18 month old vaccination. She would have been 9 years old now. She should have been in school, had more vaccinations etc.
And combined with a missing persons report that was once filed (but closed a week later), her name should have showed up.