AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #1

[MadDoc]

More info...

The man was taken from minimum security in Cessnock jail on Wednesday and interviewed by officers* at a nearby police station before being returned and put in the maximum security wing.




http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...le-over-killings/story-fni0cx4q-1227580519609

"Police are hopeful of an early arrest." That sentence (pun intended!) jumped out at me and made me very hopeful.

Oh, and Suitcase Man was mentioned again, as an example of how several people could be involved.

 

[sunnybree]

I think at the end of the day we'll find out the killer lived near Wynarka don't you? Shouldn't forensics be able to determine her exact age from bones due to bone development? I'm starting to wonder about the state of forensics in this country a bit ..

I actually don't think they can, except on TV! Maybe someone who knows more about forensics can reply but I am quite sure that forensic science can only provide approximate ages from skeletal remains, as well as only very approximate time of death once a body is entirely degraded to skeleton. Children develop at different stages, height varies etc.

On another note, I used to read a lawyer's blog that provided info on whether aspects of Law and Order:SVU were "realistic". She commented about DNA a number of times--not only does creating the DNA profile take quite some time, it then takes weeks annd months again to search for a random match. Searching through the DNA database takes a long time, and while assisted by a computer, it is a person who does the matching and comparison, one by one to each possible match. There is no real-life computer program in the world that spits out an answer in a day. So I also feel that comments that LE should have known beforehand to compare DNA from the two cases are unfair--it seems that they only just got the DNA profile a very short time before they got the lead on Khandalyce, and by identifying Khandalyce they knew they could focus a comparison on any unidentified remains of a young female, because only by identifying Khandalyce as the victim is there a strong indication that her mother was also a victim. Prior to the identification of Khandalyce, the line of inquiry that she had a mother murdered as well was only as likely or unlikely as any other scenario, and in my opinion did not deserve more attention than other lines of enquiry.

In my opinion, the strategies used by LE to identify Khandalyce worked. They asked the public to think about little girls who would have been aged between 2-4 years 2008 - 2014, and to ask themselves where those little girls are now--a relative of Khandalyce clearly thought about this prompting their call to Crimestoppers. LE regularly displayed and brought media attention to the quilt--another relative found and provided a photo of Khandalyce with the quilt. They were able to compare an item of Khandalyce's clothing to another picture sourced from a friend. They found Khandalyce on a list of names of children dropped off the immunisation register. And finally having a DNA profile they could use, they matched it to Khandalyce. I'm sure that a lot of time was also wasted on enquiries that led nowhere, but that is the case for most investigations like this.

 

[crabstick]

Pawelski is a polish surname?

Her body was found by a bushwalker in Mount Crawford forest. A post-mortem found she died from head injuries and had been assaulted.
Adelaide, red Ford Telstar sedan, Greg Hutchins said there might have been several people involved.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-09/emma-pawelski-murder/4808252
First posted 9 Jul 2013

In 2005 there's Emma Jade Pawelski http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-09/emma-pawelski-murder/4808252

Does anyone know of any unsolved murders or unidentied girls/women, that would fit the same area's SA, NSW, ACT between 2006-2012 that come to mind?

A popular name is Jade.

Emma Jade Pawelski
Karlie Jade Pearce-Stevenson
Has her cat come up on microchip?

If the offender knew the victims

 

[antechinusRAWR]

I've worked for Centrelink. They run programs that select people for review. So if certain events have happened/not happened (for example, filling in an employment declaration telling the tax department you are starting work... or you've got self employed income and haven't provided new details of it for an improbable length of time... that sort of thing) you may be sure to be reviewed, if certain other events have happened it might just make you more likely to be reviewed. The algorithms used are altered to respond to whatever it is everyone in review chain of command feels it needs to be... for example if there's been a scandal with people earning fruitpicking income and not declaring it the review programmers will be instructed to come up with a plan to see that more people who are doing that find themselves put on the spot. I kinda think there's also a random component to the selections which means no-one can be 100% sure they won't be hauled in and asked to confirm their details and provide some ID. So it is sorta a systematic set of reviews but also semi-random.

There was definitely a random review component years ago. My first job was assisting Mobile Review Teams & I'd be given an alphabetical name printout & be told to throw a dice, close my eyes & pin the tail on the printout, but pick 50 names, any 50 names.

 

[reasypeasy]

In my opinion, the strategies used by LE to identify Khandalyce worked. They asked the public to think about little girls who would have been aged between 2-4 years 2008 - 2014, and to ask themselves where those little girls are now--a relative of Khandalyce clearly thought about this prompting their call to Crimestoppers. LE regularly displayed and brought media attention to the quilt--another relative found and provided a photo of Khandalyce with the quilt. They were able to compare an item of Khandalyce's clothing to another picture sourced from a friend. They found Khandalyce on a list of names of children dropped off the immunisation register. And finally having a DNA profile they could use, they matched it to Khandalyce. I'm sure that a lot of time was also wasted on enquiries that led nowhere, but that is the case for most investigations like this.

And they would have worked ultimately even if there had been no call made to suggest the check for her in particular. Working through the kids who dropped out of being immunized would have found her and her mother's trail was cold sometime after her 18 month shots. So, good policing in my opinion too. They had a net that was slowly closing in on the facts, and they sped it up by asking for help from the community.

 

[catswhiskers]

I think at the end of the day we'll find out the killer lived near Wynarka don't you? Shouldn't forensics be able to determine her exact age from bones due to bone development? I'm starting to wonder about the state of forensics in this country a bit ..

I'm thinking that pinpointing ages of children is much more difficult, there can be such enormous variations in size and body type at any given age.

 

[Fence Sitter]

Ok ive searched Mako and although a few names stood out im not convinced. I also had a stab at NSW court records but quickly gave up..... so many bad bad people out there.

 

[antechinusRAWR]

I tried looking through MAKO too but was too overwhelmed to stick with it for very long. Like another poster, Raymond cornwall's name caught my eye.

I should probably fess up that I only knew about the Cornwall's/Correll because I have a distant connection to Rachelle & keep an eye out for updates related to them, not because I put in any effort searching through MAKO.

 

[crabstick]

What if police pulled you over because of the 'previous' owner of your car?
You were leaving a small town out on a deserted hwy with you daughter packed station wagon.

Is that a normal procedure to register persons that were pulled over for a routine check and who turned out to be without incident?

Sorry if paywall??
Paraphrased in case.

In what was the last confirmed sighting of mother and daughter on 8 Nov 2008 her red (maroon) commodore was pulled over near Cobber Pedy by police for a routine stop. Without incident she was allowed on her way north, this was the final confirmed sighting.
Karlie had never been in trouble with the law.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...hunt-for-monster/story-e6frg6n6-1227580533615
Mystery of victims Khandalyce Pearce and Karlie Pearce-Stevenson turns to manhunt for monster
ANDREW DOWDELL OCTOBER 23, 2015

To bury someone in Blengalo forest wouldnt you need some prior knowledge of the vicinity, or would you just pull up trail bike riding area?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I actually don't think they can, except on TV! Maybe someone who knows more about forensics can reply but I am quite sure that forensic science can only provide approximate ages from skeletal remains, as well as only very approximate time of death once a body is entirely degraded to skeleton. Children develop at different stages, height varies etc.

On another note, I used to read a lawyer's blog that provided info on whether aspects of Law and Order:SVU were "realistic". She commented about DNA a number of times--not only does creating the DNA profile take quite some time, it then takes weeks annd months again to search for a random match. Searching through the DNA database takes a long time, and while assisted by a computer, it is a person who does the matching and comparison, one by one to each possible match. There is no real-life computer program in the world that spits out an answer in a day. So I also feel that comments that LE should have known beforehand to compare DNA from the two cases are unfair--it seems that they only just got the DNA profile a very short time before they got the lead on Khandalyce, and by identifying Khandalyce they knew they could focus a comparison on any unidentified remains of a young female, because only by identifying Khandalyce as the victim is there a strong indication that her mother was also a victim. Prior to the identification of Khandalyce, the line of inquiry that she had a mother murdered as well was only as likely or unlikely as any other scenario, and in my opinion did not deserve more attention than other lines of enquiry.

In my opinion, the strategies used by LE to identify Khandalyce worked. They asked the public to think about little girls who would have been aged between 2-4 years 2008 - 2014, and to ask themselves where those little girls are now--a relative of Khandalyce clearly thought about this prompting their call to Crimestoppers. LE regularly displayed and brought media attention to the quilt--another relative found and provided a photo of Khandalyce with the quilt. They were able to compare an item of Khandalyce's clothing to another picture sourced from a friend. They found Khandalyce on a list of names of children dropped off the immunisation register. And finally having a DNA profile they could use, they matched it to Khandalyce. I'm sure that a lot of time was also wasted on enquiries that led nowhere, but that is the case for most investigations like this.

I thought with young children you could because of the development stages of teeth, and the way the bones fuse in the skull?

http://australianmuseum.net.au/how-do-we-know-an-individuals-age-at-death

http://www.seattlechildrens.org/medical-conditions/bone-joint-muscle-conditions/craniosynostosis/

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Karlie & Khandalyce TIMELINE (so far)

1988
• Karlie DOB

2006
• Khandalyce DOB

2006 - 2008
• Left Alice Springs to travel and work, no confirmed date, where were they that nobody is really sure?

November 2008
• Nov 8, Pulled over by police on Stuart Highway (Coober Pedy)
• Seen by a friend and photographed in Marion Shopping Centre, Adelaide.

December 2008
• Seen in the ACT at a shopping center (Unconfirmed)

September 4, 2009
• Mother files missing persons report then withdraws it on September 10

August 2010
• Karlie's remains found

July 15, 2015
• Khandalyce's remains found

October 8, 2015
• Call to CrimeStoppers identifying clothes

October 21, 2015
• Karlie and Khandalyce identified as Belanglo & Wynarka Angels

SOURCES:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-21/timeline-karlie-jade-pearce-stevensons-mother/6874506
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-21/breakthrough-announced-in-wynarka-and-belanglo-cases/6872550
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-23/police-search-homes-in-sa-canberra-mother-daughter/6879814

Note: The details of their movements remain vague, especially when they are actually believed to have left Alice Springs and where they travelled.

If anyone can add to this that would be great, as the timeline still has some major holes in it....

 

[Panda]

This thought has been bouncing around in my head and I don't even want to out it into words because it's so horrific.

But Karlie was a very tiny girl, so you might assume that her daughter would be small for her age as well. They thought Karlie was much younger than her bones suggests. I wondered if it might be the same for Khandalyce.

Thankfully police are saying that Khandalyce was 2 when she died, because at first the bones at Wynarka were thought to be those of a 4 year old. And that idea is just so abhorrent I don't want to spell it out.

It is much easier to determine the age of a juvenile than an adult, due to the growth and changes in the skeleton, which occur at a pretty predictable rate. Accuracy in estimating the age of a child from a skeleton is very high and can be accurate to within a year, compared to someone Karlie's age, which involves a 10 year age range discrepancy, as there is a + and - of 5 years either end. I don't know where the 4 years of age comes from, but I would say 2 years myself, given the available information regarding the time the police believe Karlie was possibly murdered and given Khandalyce's clothes which were found and were able to be traced to the photographs, which even without forensic evidence, would put her at around 2 at the time of her death. In my view, it is unlikely she would have been disposed of with those clothes unless she was using them at the time, as opposed to later items of clothing she may have been wearing if she had been older, which I would think would also be included with the clothing disposed of. I'm of the opinion they were murdered at around the same time.

 

[Kyja]

Just wanted to add a few thoughts. The key Karlie has around her neck could be an 18th birthday key charm, they are quite a common gift for a young woman to receive on her 18th.
I keep comparing the two photos of Karlie and she looks down right stressed in the pic taken at the shopping centre. She really doesn't look like she was posing for a photo. I find this odd considering she was supposedly with a friend. Khandalyce looks clean and healthy but she doesn't seem particularly happy either....

 

[Dogface]

The shopping center picture bothered me from the moment I saw it. Her eye makeup looks like she was crying, and something about her lip looked off. Like perhaps she had a fat lip or something.

 

[crabstick]

Weight loss from drug usage maybe? Typical before an after

Just wanted to add a few thoughts. The key Karlie has around her neck could be an 18th birthday key charm, they are quite a common gift for a young woman to receive on her 18th.
I keep comparing the two photos of Karlie and she looks down right stressed in the pic taken at the shopping centre. She really doesn't look like she was posing for a photo. I find this odd considering she was supposedly with a friend. Khandalyce looks clean and healthy but she doesn't seem particularly happy either....

 

[fruity]

Personally I think Karlie and Khandalyce are only the tip of the iceberg.
If I want to see if there are other missing young women (with or without child) around Belanglo State Forest and the Adelaide area around (2007-2010), what website or database would you guys advise?

I agree that this could be the work of a serial killer, especially if the killer was relatively unknown to Karlie (ie she met him during her travels).

 

[fruity]

Hi I am new on websleuths but been following this thread awaiting registration. Unfortunately am in a different time zone so it's hard to catch up on everything. Re: the man with a suitcase I think he deliberately planted it in Wynarka and then went back to move it closer to the highway as it wasn't found straightaway. I can't see it being left there by a killer with all belongings and that unusual blanket. I think the person who left it there wanted justice for Karlie and Khandalyce. Or maybe the suitcase was buried initially but uncovered during winds/floods? Don't know the climate really...

I agree, it could definitely be the case since he was seen on two different dates. But why would he have the suitcase with him in town both times? If he wanted to move it closer to the road he wouldn't take it into town again, IMO.

 

[fruity]

Darren Ashley was sentenced in 2012/13 so he could have been the one that murdered the angels. Does anyone know on what grounds he's been ruled out as a suspect? Can't access that article in the Australian

I think the suspect currently in prison was jailed in 2013 but is still awaiting sentencing? iirc? It's hard to tell with some conflicting stories in MSM.

 

[fruity]

I thought with young children you could because of the development stages of teeth, and the way the bones fuse in the skull?

http://australianmuseum.net.au/how-do-we-know-an-individuals-age-at-death

http://www.seattlechildrens.org/medical-conditions/bone-joint-muscle-conditions/craniosynostosis/

Yes, dating a child is easier and more accurate from what I've read.

 

[fruity]

I should probably fess up that I only knew about the Cornwall's/Correll because I have a distant connection to Rachelle & keep an eye out for updates related to them, not because I put in any effort searching through MAKO.

He only came up for me because I went in alphabetical order, haha. I gave up soon after. Too many awful things to fill my mind with.