AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce, Wynarka, Bones of a Child Discovered, July'15 - #4

[musicaljoke]

I haven't heard if the pumpkin fabric has been identified yet. I certainly haven't found it, but I have found this one, which is similar, and might be from the same vintage. I've asked the seller if she can tell us any info that is printed on the selvage.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/156834...table?ref=shop_home_active_16&show_panel=true

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/589c583926a6ea8ee755f05c83631ee0

 

[ninjabynight]

Regarding the "mid-march" claim - Actually, what the police said was that several people saw the case after the roadworks were finished in mid-March.
That's ambiguous and I think we have assumed the case was seen in mid-March, but perhaps it only means the roadworks were finished in mid-March.

Yes, this is how I read things too. I found more information about the roadworks the other day and now for the life of me can't find the same document. But I took notes and can tell very clearly what it said. It said that roadworks were commencing further down the road towards Murray Bridge on 12 March 2015 and that that coincided with the completion of works at Wynarka. So we can assume from this that roadworks at Wynarka were completed very close to 12 March. So sorry I can't find the source again!

 

[ninjabynight]

Re: Suitcase man as grandfather?

I've been having a few thoughts on this. If he was the grandfather (or other close relative) of the little girl, and he put the suitcase out there in order to enable police to investigate the crime, then eventually, if police did get to the bottom of things and identify the child and her mother, then surely he himself as grandfather would be identifiable? So why not just go directly to police in the first place?

Good point. I've also wondered: if he was leaving the child's bones to be found in order to give closure to someone ... closure to who? If the child is unknown and apparently unmissed, and if immediate family were involved in her murder - who else remains who would need closure?

 

[musicaljoke]

Yes, this is how I read things too. I found more information about the roadworks the other day and now for the life of me can't find the same document. But I took notes and can tell very clearly what it said. It said that roadworks were commencing further down the road towards Murray Bridge on 12 March 2015 and that that coincided with the completion of works at Wynarka. So we can assume from this that roadworks at Wynarka were completed very close to 12 March. So sorry I can't find the source again!

It was on the police news page, but that entry seems to have been deleted.

https://www.police.sa.gov.au/sa-police-news.../murray.../task-force-mallee
Jul 30, 2015 - Officers from the Task Force, along with police from the Murray ... 2km west of the Wynarka township in the Murray Mallee region. .. Dtv-Supt Bray said the suitcase was first seen after road works were concluded in mid-March, ...

 

[ninjabynight]

"But rather than holey submerged it appears the watermark is around the 10-15cm mark...." That's was what I was thinking, that although it may have originally been secreted in a dam/lake somewhere, it had became exposed with falling water levels, only the part still in the water would have algae. It may have sat like that for years or maybe just for last summer/early autumn after which it turns up on the side of the road......
My apologies to you Puggle, I hadn't taken exception to your post, I myself had street viewed past those houses back of Wynarka and thought "bad buggers must live there".... my post was really a smack to myself:shame:

Interesting. I just did a quick search on Adelaide damn levels. The historic chart of the nearest measuring point (Kangaroo Creek, further northeast in the Adelaide Hills) demonstrates how 2015 levels are generally lower than the previous five years. This chart also demonstrates that damn levels start bottoming out around March (http://water.bom.gov.au/waterstorag...:awris:common:codelist:feature:kangaroovalley).

And then there's another chart comparing Adelaide 2015 damn levels month by month to 2014, showing that 2015 levels were considerably lower than 2014 from Feb onwards (http://www.eldersweather.com.au/dam-level/sa/).

Anecdotally, I was driving past Chain of Ponds reservoir earlier this year and the water level was noticeably lower than normal. I haven't seen the level so low since the last drought ended back around 2010.

Edit to conclude: I consider the idea that the suitcase was originally in a damn and was exposed at low water levels to be viable.

 

[ninjabynight]

I can see why someone would need to keep a short wave radio instead of a television. You don't have cell phone reception anywhere. It brings back the use of morse code devices I used to play with in the 70s opf my dad's. It's good to know and it travels across the couintry with almost nothing.Telling your own public about this has got to be hard with such an isolated lifestyle. These people are likely homesteaders or living boats. Suitcase man might be still unaware he's the centerpoint of an investigation of a heineouis miurder. I doubt there's even mail service to some areas. CB radios are likely the best thing to keep in your cars and boats with news bulletins. I know there are big cities, but there are lots of small towns through there.

It's worth keeping in mind that Wynarka is really not very isolated. It's only an hour's drive from Adelaide. In Australia this is not considered to be isolated. Being in the middle of the desert with no one for 1500km in any direction - that sort of thing is the kind of isolation Australia can dish up. This is a small town, yes, but not far from a big city. Also not far from the main freeway, or from Murray Bridge which is quite a big town.

 

[Korrigan]

I think they even know who they are looking for, they must have a sketch they can't show of the child, and so much more by now of where the clothes came from. I don't think it's a local child, but it's easy to live off the grid and have unregistered kids. Does Australia even have camels? That is more middle eastern.

Australia has camels, brought over a long time ago. We even export them to Arabian countries.

 

[AtaraMalka]

With knowing Prostitution is legal, women who do that are more protected by the law and cared for, so you can't always judge a book by it's cover. This is what happens to people who turn in drug dealers or make a bad drug deal ripping their supplier off selling them baking soda instead of coke kinds of things. Why take that out on a little girl? At least drop her off on someone's doorstep and let her be safe?Whoever did this will have to sort it out, but when they get her name, someone will come looking for them and it won't be the police. Whoever this is should turn themselves in.

Yes, but sadly they won't. Because if they had a conscience they wouldn't have done something like this in the first place. The police are not perfect beings but at this point they are our only hope.

 

[AtaraMalka]

I can see why someone would need to keep a short wave radio instead of a television. You don't have cell phone reception anywhere. It brings back the use of morse code devices I used to play with in the 70s opf my dad's. It's good to know and it travels across the couintry with almost nothing.Telling your own public about this has got to be hard with such an isolated lifestyle. These people are likely homesteaders or living boats. Suitcase man might be still unaware he's the centerpoint of an investigation of a heineouis miurder. I doubt there's even mail service to some areas. CB radios are likely the best thing to keep in your cars and boats with news bulletins. I know there are big cities, but there are lots of small towns through there.

Can I ask you what makes you think of the boating connection, browneyedsusan?

 

[Korrigan]

Somehow I keep thinking that whoever left the suitcase by the roadside is not the person who killed the little girl.

And I also do not think that the mother killed her.

If suitcase man is the person who killed her, there is absolutely no logic to him parading around with a suitcase in a tiny village. What if some local would have approched him and started talking to him? Would he have run? Would he have kept the suitcase should that have happened? And would little Angel never have been left there and never been found?
What if he had been filmed by someone’s dashcam? Or had been stopped by a policecar. What if a truckdriver would have pulled over to give the poor guy a ride in the middle of nowhere? IT MAKES NO SENSE!!

If the mother had killed her, what I find extremely hard to believe after police revealed she died in a horrible way, why on earth would a mother not just bury the child instead of having a man parade around a village with a suitcase. And leave the child like trash by the roadside.
Even if she hated the child. Why leave the remains at the side of the road years later? A ‘look what I’m capable of statement”? NO WAY.

If she was a monster of a mother that killed her own child, than she could have done a better job making sure the child would never be found. If she didn't kill it, then she is most likely dead too. Or in big trouble. Cause no normal mother would stand by and watch her child being killed. Then you must be caught in an abusive/dangerous situation too.

A male figure who, for whatever reason, was controlling the mother and killed the child, would he have reason to retrieve the body where it had been up until that point (a place where there was a chance the remains would be recovered AND lead to the killer)?
If that were the case, then he would have retrieved the body (even if he was suitcase man and walking around with the remains in a suitcase) and would never have dumped the suitcase and the remains where they would be found. But would have retrieved them and would have made them dissapear as best as possible.

So what did happen? My guess is that the remains had to be moved for a reason. Like real estate being sold. Or construction/project development about to take place where the remains were hidden.

Or someone knew what happened and was intimidated by the person responsible for killing the girl. And now for some reason there was an oppertunity to move the remains to a place where they could be found. Like the killer being in jail, deceased or no longer a threat.

Great post. But in response to a couple of your points, it doesn't have to be 'a monster of a mother'. It could be a woman with other children to protect. The 'little angel' may have been from a former relationship, the mother may have worried for the safety of a new baby, or another child. The mother could have been in an abusive situation, totally unable to act, unable to bury the child, unable to defy the 'murderer' in any way. I agree the mother could be in big trouble.

Just playing Devil's Advocate here. Mother could be an 'internet' bride from overseas and totally isolated and helpless, or she could be a woman with diminished mental ability, or physical ability. Been some terrible cases over the years of young women with Down's Syndrome raped/abused/murdered or simply disappearing. May be a drug addict dependent on drug supply.

Family of murderer have no trouble concealing this murder, or ignoring it, until something happens (sale of property, need to move), then 'remains' need to be got rid of, older family member takes care of it... Or an older man with an internet bride, or a female partner somehow under his control, who needs to move on and get rid of evidence. Perhaps authorities looking at other children from the relationship.

Or, heartbreakingly, looking at the recent Tyrell Cobb case, mother and stepfather both involved in horrendous death. Stepfather's family in court to support him. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-14/man-denied-bail-over-tyrell-cobb-murder/6697258

Not hard to imagine a family exists where they would support a child killer to the point of concealing a terrible death and helping to remove evidence.

Just throwing some (horrible) thoughts out.

 

[ninjabynight]

It was on the police news page, but that entry seems to have been deleted.

https://www.police.sa.gov.au/sa-police-news.../murray.../task-force-mallee
Jul 30, 2015 - Officers from the Task Force, along with police from the Murray ... 2km west of the Wynarka township in the Murray Mallee region. .. Dtv-Supt Bray said the suitcase was first seen after road works were concluded in mid-March, ...

Yes, I'm just offering further specifics when I give the date as 12 March.

 

[purpleandgreen]

Mightn't hurt to let crimestoppers know this. It could be very relevant.

Interesting. I just did a quick search on Adelaide damn levels. The historic chart of the nearest measuring point (Kangaroo Creek, further northeast in the Adelaide Hills) demonstrates how 2015 levels are generally lower than the previous five years. This chart also demonstrates that damn levels start bottoming out around March (http://water.bom.gov.au/waterstorag...:awris:common:codelist:feature:kangaroovalley).

And then there's another chart comparing Adelaide 2015 damn levels month by month to 2014, showing that 2015 levels were considerably lower than 2014 from Feb onwards (http://www.eldersweather.com.au/dam-level/sa/).

Anecdotally, I was driving past Chain of Ponds reservoir earlier this year and the water level was noticeably lower than normal. I haven't seen the level so low since the last drought ended back around 2010.

Edit to conclude: I consider the idea that the suitcase was originally in a damn and was exposed at low water levels to be viable.

 

[curiouslib]

:wave:Hi websleuthers,

I have been lurking and reading all the threads on this topic but haven't felt able to contribute more to your amazing work until now. Your research is usually two steps ahead of me while I've been catching up. My thoughts are not new and I am just speculating after reading all the information and particularly the police reports.

Given that the police think this is a domestic violence situation I have been wondering whether another child or children might currently be in the same danger as this little girl was. In that situation they may be willing to risk their own exposure? I agree with many posters that the dumping of the suitcase was not well thought out. Could it be that the suitcase dumper (a sibling, mother or relative) lives with the murderer a few hours from Wynarka (maybe Adelaide?) and some crisis (perhaps with another child) forced them into action after so many years. They would obviously be terrified of getting caught and would probably not have a lot of opportunities to plan and execute something of this nature. They gathered up everything that belonged to the little girl in the hope that a particular family member in Wynarka would identify the girl from her things and figure the situation out and help. In that situation the suitcase man could be the dumper OR someone that is helping the sibling, mother or relative to expose the murderer. Perhaps the initial dumping was done on the spur of the moment, at night, in passion and the suitcase man was enlisted to monitor and help with the murderer's exposure in hindsight. In that situation suitcase man could have been carrying an empty suitcase and trying to locate the remains of the little girl.

Another scenario is that the suitcase man is the murderer and he somehow found out that the person living with him was trying to expose him. This would mean he also wouldn't know the exact location of the suitcase.

 

[MsDee]

Just a question about the DNA crime DNA register, I realise DNA would be taken from people convinced of very serious offences but at what level of crime does it apply to? Eg drug offences, break and enter assault? is it a national register or state? I know it's been mentioned but if any family members have been in trouble with the law then maybe they could match familial dna of a semi close relative I'm not sure on how distant a relative can be though. But I guess if they have the DNA profile they would have checked the register. Just my oppinion.

To answer your question, this may help:

'The majority of jurisdictions in Australia (including Victoria and New South Wales) have a system for taking DNA when people are convicted, or where their DNA is needed to investigate the crime for which they have been arrested,' Professor Gans says.
'And if that person is never charged, their DNA has to be removed from the database after a year.'

On the other hand, there are some jurisdictions in Australia which go further along the US path. The Northern Territory and Queensland both allow DNA to be taken automatically on arrest for sufficiently serious crimes. That DNA goes on the database and in the Northern Territory's case it stays there forever, even if the person is cleared of the charge they are arrested for. Western Australia has a narrower system which allows DNA to be taken once you are charged with an offence—arrest is not enough.

Source - http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lawreport/green-light-for-dna/4749602

To my knowledge, nothing has been said publicly about anything to with the DNA being obtained or compared to known samples. So maybe it is something they are keeping to themselves. I imagine it would be another avenue in the investigators arsenal though.

 

[curiouslib]

Further to this... more info about SA DNA sampling

http://www.lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch03s01s04s03.php

 

[AtaraMalka]

Good point. I've also wondered: if he was leaving the child's bones to be found in order to give closure to someone ... closure to who? If the child is unknown and apparently unmissed, and if immediate family were involved in her murder - who else remains who would need closure?

Yes, ninjabynight, I also wondered the same thing. Closure to a hitherto non-existent investigtion. It's a mystery alright.

 

[AtaraMalka]

Yes, ninjabynight, I also wondered the same thing. Closure to a hitherto non-existent investigtion. It's a mystery alright.

Sorry to quote myself...but with reference to my previous post, and ninjabynight's thoughts as well, is it possible that this mystery is connected with a case with which police are already familiar, and the perpetrator / dumper of the suitcase knows that? There is so much going on behind the scenes here that we just can't imagine.

 

[JaneSA]

Here is the link Puggle posted Jane:
https://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/video/watch/28906715/police-still-in-search-for-child-murderer/#page1

Thanks Snoop!

So she is the lady who lives at the "Hall" and seems to have seen him empty handed walking back in the opposite direction (from west to east) along her end of Railway Tce, which is the eastern end.

So I have revised the map but for some reason cannot post it.

The reference to 2 ladies walking dogs was in last night's ABC News video.

 

[JaneSA]

 

[JaneSA]

I keep thinking someone wanted to come back for the suitcase, The location where the case was found is easy enough to hide something for a while, but still be able to find it again fairly easy knowing the location. For all we know that case could of been laying in that shrub for a year maybe 2 years, Having a few roadwork guys say they didn't see a case, doesn't mean it wasn't there then. If the person who dropped the case truly wanted it to be found, you could of dropped it somewhere more visible , but discreet enough that nobody would see you do it. To me it just screams out like it was done in a hurry and with no planning.

If you look at the map there is soo much land and places that case can be disposed of and never seen again. Also they wouldn't of had to dispose of the case just the bones if they wanted too, They managed to conceal the murder for so many years, Why did it turn up now? and why there?.

This post isn't much help I'm sorry, Just thoughts :thinking:

I agree with all your points, Bliss.
Disposing of the bones would be so simple. You could bury them anywhere.
Leaving them with the clothing is both pointless and creating an evidence trail.
The long time frame from murder to discovery also makes no sense.

For these reasons I keep reverting to my original thought that suitcase-man has nothing to do with it.

I believe the case and its contents were stored, the bones with her favourite items, for many years and kept together for sentimental reasons.
I still think the case was stolen from a shed and dumped on the roadside when found to contain nothing of value to the thieves.