AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce, Wynarka, Bones of a Child Discovered, July'15 - #7

[JLZ]

Sorry if this has already been reviewed in the previous threads but I am really interested in how the suitcase came to be hanging in a tree when originally found.
Scenarios on how this could occur:
a) thrown or falling from a fast moving/ high vehicle - would be interesting to see if this scenario could be reproduced
b) Placed by an person deliberately in this position (note to self....I have to stop watching true detective...)
c) Moved from another location by a natural occurrence - would have to be significant flood or tornado (they do occur in this region however not within the time line we have been given)
d) being in position for a long time and growing up with the tree - again does not fit the current time line scenario..
Any other thoughts welcome

I can't see (a) as the road was straight, the tree was a fair distance from the road (I think somebody here estimated 11 metres) and the suitcase was said to be lodged in the side of the tree away from the road.

Some thoughts about why (b) may have occurred: to keep it out of the way of animals; to drain or dry it or keep it out of existing or future puddles; because tree burial is a 'thing'; to make it conspicuous to somebody passing along the track by the railway.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I understand (and believe) the possibility of a stolen suitcase out of some shed.
I don't believe, suitcase man was searching the stolen suitcase. He wouldn't have known where to look for it at all. And WHY searching any area on foot? Who would do that? That alone makes no sense.
If we are thinking of him searching the area, taking a suitcase with him to collect something: that also makes no sense because the suitcase was seemingly filled before (witnesses saw him carrying a suitcase of heavier weight).

Every thought of suitcase man makes little sense. But if we had no suitcase man, the story would have already ended long ago.

Perhaps suitcase man had another mission and nothing to do with "Angel". But even without "Angel" his mission on foot makes no sense.
Senseless is also, if it was a coincidence to have a suspect suitcase with human remains on the road side (there is no more strange hiding) AND to have an unknown man with/without case walking in the very same area at a very matching time.

The Wynarka locals had a good sharp eye onto an unknown man with suitcase and also onto another unknown man, who was walking in the bush between railway track and highway, wearing a suit and phoning while going from A to B. Despite their sharp eye obviously nobody saw a car (type, colour, plates) belonging to suitcase man or to phone man - just as inexplicable.

My old theory of a suitcase with clothing and remains, which came perhaps from Adelaide Hills (flower farm) and was dumped on the very hurry way per car/truck to the area of Cocoparra National Park or Leeton on Easter Saturday/Sunday (around 11hs driving time) remains preserved too. But suitcase man (IF seen multiple times) wouldn't really fit.

 

[Oona]

Im confused.....I thought police had only worked out that the suitcase wasn't there whilst road works were carried out.....and said the suitcase must have been placed sometime after that was completed in Mid March.......so that could entirely open up the suggestion that he placed it there on April 13th.......was there an earlier date the suitcase was observed along the hwy??

I have trouble accepting the idea that the suitcase could have only been there since the roadworks. From what I can see, using google street view, that area is scrubby and there is rubbish strewn fairly regularly along the roadside. While the road-workers may not have come across the suitcase, It appears they only worked on the road and immediate verge. There is plenty of roadside scrub they would not have seen.

 

[JaneSA]

Many things about the supposed sightings of suitcase-man make no sense.
Of course, the primary one is that one of the the woman who was walking with a friend said he didn't make eye contact with them or acknowledge them.
But it's a ridiculous thing to say because at the closest point to them her was over 200m away and they never actually passed each other.
She saw him approaching walking east to west down Railway Tce while she was at the far western end.
At that point her friend left and continued on the southern route.
She went into her own house, around the back, then inside to her lounge room window before looking out and seeing him pass directly in front of her house.
He was much too far way from the women for them to have gained the impression he was unfriendly; or indeed, much at all.
They have been unable to describe his clothing (other than "neat") yet people are willing to believe they have accurately described his attitude?
I think way too much police time has been spent following up nonsense from 2 bored women.

 

[visioneye]

I can't see (a) as the road was straight, the tree was a fair distance from the road (I think somebody here estimated 11 metres) and the suitcase was said to be lodged in the side of the tree away from the road.

Some thoughts about why (b) may have occurred: to keep it out of the way of animals; to drain or dry it or keep it out of existing or future puddles; because tree burial is a 'thing'; to make it conspicuous to somebody passing along the track by the railway.

Thank you Wow I didn't realise 'tree burial'-actually up the tree was such a thing especially for children under 10yrs.
I'm with CSI dreamer and would love to know how far up the tree the case was. My guestimating...(experienced frequent traveller) is that the case would have weighed around 7kg. If this is true it would have taken someone with a bit of strength and determination to get it far off the ground.

 

[JLZ]

Thank you Wow I didn't realise 'tree burial'-actually up the tree was such a thing especially for children under 10yrs.

Beside a highway and a railway line wouldn't be my choice, however.

 

[Puggle]

I have trouble accepting the idea that the suitcase could have only been there since the roadworks. From what I can see, using google street view, that area is scrubby and there is rubbish strewn fairly regularly along the roadside. While the road-workers may not have come across the suitcase, It appears they only worked on the road and immediate verge. There is plenty of roadside scrub they would not have seen.

You could be right and it may have been overlooked ....

I'm basing my comment solely on the SAPOL reports in this regard. They are saying that it was first found sometime after the road works were completed in March.

I'm not sure how observant of their surrounding the construction crews are when re-doing a road.....but they do work a section at a time... and from what I have observed along the Hume Hwy works here in Victoria they seem to have a lot of breaks sheltering in the shade of trees off the side of the hwy...

I think Jane said locals have stated to have seen it earlier....or at least earlier than the first "Suitcase Man" sighting on April 13th....but I haven't found a link to confirm this...so ???

 

[Puggle]

Many things about the supposed sightings of suitcase-man make no sense.Of course, the primary one is that one of the the woman who was walking with a friend said he didn't make eye contact with them or acknowledge them.
But it's a ridiculous thing to say because at the closest point to them her was over 200m away and they never actually passed each other.
She saw him approaching walking east to west down Railway Tce while she was at the far western end.
At that point her friend left and continued on the southern route.
She went into her own house, around the back, then inside to her lounge room window before looking out and seeing him pass directly in front of her house.
He was much too far way from the women for them to have gained the impression he was unfriendly; or indeed, much at all.
They have been unable to describe his clothing (other than "neat") yet people are willing to believe they have accurately described his attitude?
I think way too much police time has been spent following up nonsense from 2 bored women.

BBM: I'm with you on that comment....

Lol...I know we both have a different perspective...where I think the suitcase man is involved and you don't...but the one thing we both agree on is the fact that there is something not quite right about these witness accounts...

 

[JaneSA]

The thing that bothers me about the witness accounts is that they have changed so much over time.
The original statements from the 2 dog walking women simply mentioned seeing a man they didn't know one day and him not making eye contact with them. But given how far away he was when they saw him (at least 200m), I don't find that surprising.
Then later it changed into him being "eerie" and "creepy", which was a backward projection onto whatever they thought they saw in the light of the knowledge of the child's remains.
I don't believe you can get an impression of "creepy" yet not have seen him clearly enough to describe his clothing or even if he was wearing a hat!

Then there is the lady from the Hall, who originally said she saw a man she didn't know and that he was NOT carrying a suitcase. Seems to me that she never connected him with anything sinister until the media turned up and she started saying "oh, me too!" just to get in on the act.

Then there is the fact that these sightings were on completely different days, which, even if this mystery man was involved, is ridiculous.

I've watched those interviews so any times and right from the beginning I have thought all these women have been embroidering their "memories" very elaborately and now I have reach the point where I don't believe any of them saw anything odd at all, but just wanted to think they had.

I even doubt the man they saw was carrying a suitcase. Again, I think that's a backwards projection onto the memory.
If he exists at all, I'm not surprised he hasn't come forward as he probably doesn't recognise is description from the media stories of the accounts of these women.

I am not saying these women intentionally lied to the police, but I think they tried very hard to come up with something, anything, to help and then elaborated a vague memory in an misguided attempt to be helpful.

 

[JaneSA]

As for the man in a suit seen crossing the road while looking at his phone - I see that as nothing more sinister than a bloke stopping for a wee in the bushes and checking the time on the way back to the car.
Occam's razor again.

 

[MsDee]

I am not saying these women intentionally lied to the police, but I think they tried very hard to come up with something, anything, to help and then elaborated a vague memory in an misguided attempt to be helpful.

I think it was all a bit strange too, re the witnesses. I have faith though, that if we can see something hinky, the police will as well. But we may not have all the info to hand like the police do, so there is that as well.

I know if I lived there, and saw someone in my very tiny town, walking along with a suitcase, I would be very observant and not so wishy washy. But I accept that most people don't see too much at all..though I always thought it would be a little bit different in such a tiny place, where someone strange would really stand out.

One of my old aunts had a fruit block in the riverland years ago. She heard about some crime that had been committed in Adelaide, and clearly remembered an odd looking bloke down by the river when she was patching some nets. Police came looking around her town, as others had seen him, and people directed them to her, as she had asked around about him, wondering who he was. She told the police everything he was wearing, right down to his "tatty boots and patched blue pants" and she nailed it. A simple country woman, but observant because she saw something that was out of place.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/little-gi...tim-of-wynarkas-homicide-20150923-gjt1ah.html

Little girl lost: trying to identify the nameless victim of Wynarka's homicide


The case has similarities to the discovery of a girl's skeleton in NSW's Belanglo State Forest in 2010.

In a first for the NSW homicide squad, a facial anthropologist was brought in to create a image of what the girl's face may have looked like. A stable isotopes analysis was also done on her bones.
"The chemical markers that were in her tissue and bones indicated she had not spent much time in Australia," Detective Sergeant Tim Attwood told Fairfax Media.
Like the Wynarka case, police made extensive inquiries about the clothing Angel wore, particularly a shirt with the word "Angelic" across it. A description of the T-shirt made in China was widely published but not one person has contacted police to report owning one.


Inspector Hutchins said immunity from prosecution could be on the table for those not directly involved in murder of the Wynarka child.
"If you're on the periphery of this crime, come to us before we come to you," he said. "There is things we can offer, like immunity."
Until someone's conscience prompts them to come forward, both the girl in the suitcase and the girl in Belanglo State Forest will remain nameless.





I think, perhaps "Angel I adult" could be the mother of "Angel II"? IF, then forensic is certainly able to prove it or even has done already (Mitochondrial DNA).
The information on "Angel I" is vague re her death and her age (13-25) and her possibly location before the murder (maybe the region Margaret River in WA).
We will see ...

https://translate.google.de/transla...-Wald-des-Backpacker-Moerders.html&edit-text=

 

[EurekaLemon]

Grrrr, just typed out a long reply and it disappeared..


There's something about the above photo that made me say "WHOA"...

My thinking - Wynarka Angel is the child of immigrants or visa overstayers. Her birth was not registered. Parents did seasonal work, moved around alot, stayed in farm lodgings or camped.

Being transient workers would account for the range of clothing. Both for cold and hot weather. Also for the randomness of labels. Clothing found at charity shops or even taken from charity clothing bins. As a mother myself, the clothing my children wear is purchased in the same few stores.

If the child is related to the lady above, unfortunatley, we see many recent migrants being abused and taken advantage.

Does anyone see any ethinic/cultural significant features in the face above?
I immediately thought Ukraine. I don't know why.. :thinking:


The suitcase - as I have had a thing or two fall off the back of a ute, my opinion is that it slid off the back or roof of a vehicle. Again, my experience is that the things that have fallen off pretty much stay where they fall - hence it being so close to the road. Who or what moved it after that?


I

 

[JaneSA]

I believe the mother of the child is still alive.
I think only a mother would so lovingly wrap the bones of her dead child in her favorite quilt and store it in a suitcase.
It's really sad and a very sentimental thing to do.
Unless she has died recently, I think she is again grieving the lose of her child now that she has lost the remains in the suitcase.

 

[JaneSA]

Grrrr, just typed out a long reply and it disappeared..


There's something about the above photo that made me say "WHOA"...

My thinking - Wynarka Angel is the child of immigrants or visa overstayers. Her birth was not registered. Parents did seasonal work, moved around alot, stayed in farm lodgings or camped.

Being transient workers would account for the range of clothing. Both for cold and hot weather. Also for the randomness of labels. Clothing found at charity shops or even taken from charity clothing bins. As a mother myself, the clothing my children wear is purchased in the same few stores.

If the child is related to the lady above, unfortunatley, we see many recent migrants being abused and taken advantage.

Does anyone see any ethinic/cultural significant features in the face above?
I immediately thought Ukraine. I don't know why.. :thinking:


The suitcase - as I have had a thing or two fall off the back of a ute, my opinion is that it slid off the back or roof of a vehicle. Again, my experience is that the things that have fallen off pretty much stay where they fall - hence it being so close to the road. Who or what moved it after that?


I

Yes, I thought she looked middle European too.
It doesn't sound like they have had very good results with the Wynarka child's DNA though, so linking the 2, if there is a link, may not be possible.

 

[Puggle]

No news...... (sigh)

 

[Cagney&Lacey]

So disparaging for both little Angel and the townsfolk of Wynarka who I'm sure want a resolution.

 

[katydid23]

Grrrr, just typed out a long reply and it disappeared..


There's something about the above photo that made me say "WHOA"...

My thinking - Wynarka Angel is the child of immigrants or visa overstayers. Her birth was not registered. Parents did seasonal work, moved around alot, stayed in farm lodgings or camped.

Being transient workers would account for the range of clothing. Both for cold and hot weather. Also for the randomness of labels. Clothing found at charity shops or even taken from charity clothing bins. As a mother myself, the clothing my children wear is purchased in the same few stores.

If the child is related to the lady above, unfortunatley, we see many recent migrants being abused and taken advantage.

Does anyone see any ethinic/cultural significant features in the face above?
I immediately thought Ukraine. I don't know why.. :thinking:


The suitcase - as I have had a thing or two fall off the back of a ute, my opinion is that it slid off the back or roof of a vehicle. Again, my experience is that the things that have fallen off pretty much stay where they fall - hence it being so close to the road. Who or what moved it after that?


I

BBM

That makes sense about immigrants but it was what many of us thought about Baby Doe, who was found in a garbage bag in a Boston cove. Many speculated that she was a child of illegal immigrants, perhaps an accidental death. We were wrong.

In reality, she was the child of cold hearted drug addicts, who possibly killed her while in a stupor. :cry:

 

[AtaraMalka]

Great post, Atara and thanks for your comments.

I actually thought the suitcase was an item stolen from a shed as soon as I heard about it and before there were any reports of suitcase man.

The reason I immediately thought of it being stolen was because thefts from out-buildings was a really big story in the Murray Bridge area over the previous few months.

Property owners had been reporting a massive increase in thefts with perimeter fences cut to avoid using the homestead driveway and 4WD vehicle tracks being left after a shed was targeted. Often the entire content of sheds were being stolen, but the emphasis seemed to be on tool sheds rather than implement sheds, presumably because smaller items like chain saws and power tools are easier to sell on, as well as to transport.

The shed theft reports have mentioned some very odd items. A horse stud had over 30 neck rugs stolen but the main rugs were stored elsewhere so not stolen. But it seems the thieves did not know what they were stealing because they were stored in a hay bale cover (those big canvas ones). They just grabbed it and examined it later.

It seems the thieves check the sheds on foot, then come back later, at night, approach across country and clear out the lot. They use bolt-cutters on padlocks.

Anyway, these shed thefts have been driving locals crazy for a couple of years because it seems to be impossible to secure a shed to prevent them and because the thieves seem to just grab anything and everything.

So prevalent had shed thefts become, that locals (and probably police too) were of the opinion that once the crimes were being reported other people were copying, since it is after all a simple crime with a low possibility of getting caught and on-selling tools is easy and low risk. There were reports that some people had the same shed broken into numerous times.

So as you can see, when I heard of a dumped suitcase, my very first thought was that it was probably from a shed theft since that's the big topic in the area - or was until this.

If you want to read about shed thefts just google "shed theft murray bridge" or tailem bend, karoonda, mannum etc and you will see what I mean. It's like an epidemic.

What WOULD be interesting would be to know if the shed thefts have decreased since the discovery of the bones. Are thieves in the area getting wary after this?

Very interesting! I will certainly have a read up on these thefts. I can see why you think there might be a link. Yes, it would be important to know if these crimes had decreased in recent months.

There really is no substitute for local knowledge, and I'm always mindful of the fact that, being so far away from Australia and not knowing it very well, there are going to be a lot of gaps in my thinking.

Lets hope we get an update soon.

 

[AtaraMalka]

No news...... (sigh)

I do hope police have had some success with the 'lines of inquiry' they said they were following based on 'undisclosed items' found in the suitcase. It intrigues me that details of these items have not been made public.