Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #2

[SusanDonim]

I am interested in the facts around this case when they finally come to light.

One thing I am sure of - I don't believe a single word that comes out of EPs mouth. Jmo.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

I'd imagine I'd be taking this with a pinch of salt because there is no report that any of them died in the ambulance which is where the paramedic would have contact with them. AFAIK all were admitted, treated and deteriorated while hospitalised.

During transport May have been when they uttered their final words, however long after they passed away.

 

[MsMarple]

I'd imagine I'd be taking this with a pinch of salt because there is no report that any of them died in the ambulance which is where the paramedic would have contact with them. AFAIK all were admitted, treated and deteriorated while hospitalised.

If the victim believed at that time that they would most likely die their statement might still be admissible. There’s no specific timeline, only that the witness believed they were dying.

We don’t know the circumstances or what was said by any of the relatives so we also don’t know what other statements were made either.

Australian law is a little different than U.S. law in that there previously was a presumption thatthe dying person believed in God. That caused some arguments over the years where some claimed atheists and Aborigines should be excluded. Crazy, huh?

Anyway here’s the current criteria. No indication of time but I think in this particular case the timeframe is reasonable. JMO

Can a dying declaration be admitted into evidence? - Australian Lawyers Alliance Limited

We are a national association of lawyers, academics and professionals dedicated to protecting and promoting justice, freedom and the rights of the individual.

www.lawyersalliance.com.au

More recently, in the case of R v Golightly (1997) 17 WAR 401, the Court stated, inter alia, regarding the criteria of dying declarations as follows:

1. The maker must be dead;
2. The trial must be for the declarant’s murder or manslaughter;
3. The statement must be related to the cause of the declarant’s death;
4. It must be established that the declarant would have been a competent witness; and
5. The declarant must have been under a settled, hopeless expectation of death.

 

[al66pine]

From my earlier post: *
"Not saying EP bought DC mushrooms at farmers' market; just saying it's possible she may have, imo." bolded in post by ladyL

[bbm]
why wouldn't she just say that?

If the post is asking why EP did not say she bought the DC mushrooms at a farmer's market, maybe it's because she did not buy them at a farmer's market. IDK.

I see multiple possible sources for DC mushrooms but am not sure about any of them being THE definite source which poisoned her lunch guests. imo
__________________________
* Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #2

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Safe to say police didn't leak Erin's statement: Erin Patterson: Cops break silence on mushroom chef leaked statement

'But last week she wrote a detailed account of what happened before, during and after the fatal lunch and sent it to
police, addressing several inconsistencies surrounding the incident. That statement soon leaked to the media.

The mother-of-two said her initial decision to stonewall cops on it being a 'terrifying and anxiety-provoking' experience.

Deputy Police Commissioner Wendy Steendam on Thursday said Erin's statement may have hampered the investigation.'

Probably hampered police investigation because everyone saw straight through many of her inconsistencies and commented on it before they could get her officially interviewed.

 

[MrJ]

Just saying, if I were the main suspect in an investigation of this scope (or any type of investigation, for that matter), I'd let my lawyer release a statement to the media, rather than leak it myself. If she did leak that herself, it raises even more questions and seems even more sus. JMO

 

[Amalgam]

It's not [textbook death cap mushroom poisoning] actually. We already did a differential, several species produce the same symptoms.

(The bit in the quote in parentheses added by me for context/clarity).

You are right, I could have worded that better. I should’ve said it is text book amatoxin containing mushroom poisoning.

The death cap is the most likely culprit amongst the amatoxin containing species, however.

Time will tell.

 

[JBowie]

'What I would say is that … working on an investigation through the media is unhelpful to our investigation,' the deputy commissioner said.

'The matter needs to be dealt with by us, looked at (by) us, and determined by us thoroughly what's actually occurred, and using the evidence that we have to determine and understand exactly what's happened and if we can explain what caused the deaths.'

In her statement, Erin denied any wrongdoing and did not know how the meal caused three deaths.

[Deputy Police Commissioner] Ms Steendam said the investigation remains ongoing.

'I understand the interest and the desire to have more information about this, but given it's an active investigation … I am limited in what I actually can say about the matter, except to say, it's not going to be quick.

[bbm]

Yep, as mentioned earlier, the toxicology tests may take weeks or months.

OK, IMO, given what police have said about that statement leak:

(1) Nothing that EP says can be relied upon to be true.

(2) The act she put on for the media cameras is as fake as it looks.

Erin Patterson: Cops break silence on mushroom chef leaked statement

Victoria's second highest ranking police officer has said the leaking of a statement from Erin Patterson about a mushroom meal thought to be linked to the deaths of three people is 'unhelpful'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[RickshawFan]

I'd imagine I'd be taking this with a pinch of salt because there is no report that any of them died in the ambulance which is where the paramedic would have contact with them. AFAIK all were admitted, treated and deteriorated while hospitalised.

We don't know though at what point in the illness this conversation took place. They were got to hospital #1 and then transferred to hospital #2; there would have been a lot of paramdedic handling during the transfers.

 

[MsMarple]

Just saying, if I were the main suspect in an investigation of this scope (or any type of investigation, for that matter), I'd let my lawyer release a statement to the media, rather than leak it myself. If she did leak that herself, it raises even more questions and seems even more sus. JMO

The Deputy Police Commissioner clarified that EP’s statement wasn’t an official police statement but rather one given to her lawyers.

I bet you’re right I think it was her lawyers who leaked it. Probably in hopes of taking some suspicion off EP. IMO it didn’t work.

Erin Patterson: Cops break silence on mushroom chef leaked statement

Victoria's second highest ranking police officer has said the leaking of a statement from Erin Patterson about a mushroom meal thought to be linked to the deaths of three people is 'unhelpful'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Edited to correct my misunderstanding of @MrJ comment.

 

[JBowie]

The Deputy Police Commissioner clarified that EP’s statement wasn’t an official police statement but rather one given to her lawyers.

I bet you’re right that it was her lawyers who leaked it. Probably in hopes of taking some suspicion off EP. IMO it didn’t work.

Lawyers never do anything on behalf of their client without instructions from their client.

IMO, EP either leaked it herself or instructed the lawyer to leak it. I'm favoring the former.

 

[MrJ]

The Deputy Police Commissioner clarified that EP’s statement wasn’t an official police statement but rather one given to her lawyers.

I bet you’re right that it was her lawyers who leaked it. Probably in hopes of taking some suspicion off EP. IMO it didn’t work.

Erin Patterson: Cops break silence on mushroom chef leaked statement

Victoria's second highest ranking police officer has said the leaking of a statement from Erin Patterson about a mushroom meal thought to be linked to the deaths of three people is 'unhelpful'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

To be clear, I was theorising not that her lawyers leaked it, but she may have done it. It’s all a bit suspicious to leak your own statement to the police. If the lawyers leaked it, it perhaps may have been a little suspicious and a bit unprofessional, but you’d think they would say ‘on behalf of our client…’ etc.
Just finding her conduct throughout this case pretty suspicious. JMO

 

[SMK777]

I've missed some info in the thread.
What did any of the poisoned patients say to paramedic?

Links to MSM pls. Anyone? TiA.

News.com.au reported that one of the ambulance workers who responded to the tragedy alerted police after hearing the dying words of one victim. They reported the guest’s last whispers were so alarming that they felt obliged to pass them on to investigators. However their exact words have not been made public.

Eerie dying words of mushroom lunch victim made paramedic call cops immediately​

Erin Patterson invited her ex-husband, his parents and aunt and uncle over for lunch, but three of the four guests died as the other remains fighting for their life in hospital

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[LacieL]

I'd imagine I'd be taking this with a pinch of salt because there is no report that any of them died in the ambulance which is where the paramedic would have contact with them. AFAIK all were admitted, treated and deteriorated while hospitalised.

Going back to the theory that the meeting was about the children’s welfare. I wonder if what was said related to the children. A “please make sure those kids are safe” kind of statement?

I of course have no idea what was actually said.

 

[jjenny]

Going back to the theory that the meeting was about the children’s welfare. I wonder if what was said related to the children. A “please make sure those kids are safe” kind of statement?

I of course have no idea what was actually said.

Please make sure the kids are safe doesn't sound like the kind of statement somebody will call the police about. I am assuming it was an accusation of a crime being committed. People usually call police about a crime either already committed or about to be committed.

 

[MrJ]

Interesting that there's an article out from our national broadcaster about food safety and how to take precautions. I personally find it sad that articles like this are produced after what I believe to be an incident that took place under IMO peculiar circumstances. Stores do not sell death cap mushrooms (if, indeed, that's what was consumed). I read upthread that someone heard mushroom sales were suffering as a result of this. It's sad what the flow-on effects of this are. JMO

Here's what a microbiologist says you should know about food poisoning

The suspected mushroom-poisoning deaths in Victoria of three people following a lunch has put a focus on the potential consequences of eating the wrong thing. Here's what food safety experts want you to know about food poisoning.

www.abc.net.au

 

[kittythehare]

Interesting that there's an article out from our national broadcaster about food safety and how to take precautions. I personally find it sad that articles like this are produced after what I believe to be an incident that took place under IMO peculiar circumstances. Stores do not sell death cap mushrooms (if, indeed, that's what was consumed). I read upthread that someone heard mushroom sales were suffering as a result of this. It's sad what the flow-on effects of this are. JMO

Here's what a microbiologist says you should know about food poisoning

The suspected mushroom-poisoning deaths in Victoria of three people following a lunch has put a focus on the potential consequences of eating the wrong thing. Here's what food safety experts want you to know about food poisoning.

www.abc.net.au

It's a good thing that warnings have been issued. I know more now about dc's than i ever knew. Not too keen on mushrooms at the best of times, they invariably taste rubbery

 

[renah]

If she'd already bought dehydrated mushrooms from the Asian store, why is the dehydrator even a part of the story?? Beef Wellington doesn't typically involve dehydrated mushrooms, and since she (claims she) bought fresh button mushrooms from the grocer I am presuming she purchased enough to complete the recipe.

Dehydrated mushrooms were unnecessary but let's pretend she thought they'd add great flavor; I've read she has a known love of cooking so yeah, ok. But they were already in a dehydrated state so what was the dehydrator used for??

This case hurts my brain!

 

[smucklecrumble]

I read in one of the earlier tagged articles that EP and her estranged husband liked to forrage. I have doubts that she wouldn't know what mushrooms were toxic because of this. I also think she intended to feed him the same meal too but unfortunately for her he pulled out last minute so she just went ahead with his relatives. Imo

 

[Kemug]

Some posters have said that EP is a smart woman - can't say I agree with this. Just because she had a large inheritance and spent it on real estate does not IMO make her smart. And there are plenty of things pointing to the opposite, also IMO.