Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #2

[Ellery84]

it seems like a massive reach to suggest EP isn’t involved as she was the chief.


Are we meant to believe somebody is framing her and broke into her house and messed with her Beef Wellington and if that’s the case explain these inconsistencies.

1) Why then can she not remember where she brought the mushrooms?

2) Why did she thrown away evidence ?

3) how did she manage to be absolutely fine when 4 other guests ended up either dead or critically ill in hospital?

Just a very small point, Erin was the chef, and not the chief.

 

[silvercrown]

The chief chef.

 

[MsMarple]

Death can ensue seven to 10 days after mushroom ingestion.

What happens when you eat a death cap mushroom?

The deaths of three Victorians after a Saturday lunch in the small town of Leongatha sent shock waves through the community, but also shone the spotlight on one of the most poisonous organisms on earth.

www.abc.net.au

More in the article.

I was just coming to link the same article. It’s definitely worth reading as a forensic toxicologist explains what happens to patients and how toxicologists determine whether mushroom poisoning is the culprit.

The good news is that there are definitive tests that give results with scientific certainty.

 

[MissTwiddle]

The guests helping themselves, choosing their own plates and the fancy beef wellington, could be explained by her carving the fancy pastry encased beef at the table and the guests then either helping g themselves to a slice OR her saying who’s next and the guest lifting their plate for her to pop a slice on their actual plate.

I do feel it’s a whole new level of pre-meditated to think she picked the mushrooms fresh, in season, months ago, dried them and kept them.
It’s a possibility, some people are warped. IMO

Alternatively, could it be a possibility that one single rogue death cap had found its way into her food store? Either by her own hands or because she bought dried foraged mushrooms elsewhere. They seem recognisable fresh, would they be so dehydrated?

Lastly, if it was premeditated, the whole thing gives me very ‘Last Supper’ vibes.

 

[jjenny]

I was just coming to link the same article. It’s definitely worth reading as a forensic toxicologist explains what happens to patients and how toxicologists determine whether mushroom poisoning is the culprit.

The good news is that there are definitive tests that give results with scientific certainty.

It should be easy enough to verify the exact toxin in this case. Victims died while in the hospital, which means blood and urine samples were collected and can be tested for the exact toxin. That's a lot more straightforward than testing on samples collected from a dead body.

 

[JLZ]

The guests helping themselves, choosing their own plates and the fancy beef wellington, could be explained by her carving the fancy pastry encased beef at the table and the guests then either helping g themselves to a slice OR her saying who’s next and the guest lifting their plate for her to pop a slice on their actual plate.

I do feel it’s a whole new level of pre-meditated to think she picked the mushrooms fresh, in season, months ago, dried them and kept them.
It’s a possibility, some people are warped. IMO

Alternatively, could it be a possibility that one single rogue death cap had found its way into her food store? Either by her own hands or because she bought dried foraged mushrooms elsewhere. They seem recognisable fresh, would they be so dehydrated?

Lastly, if it was premeditated, the whole thing gives me very ‘Last Supper’ vibes.

BBM, I don't think a single mushroom would be enough to poison three to four people.

The lethal dose of amanita toxin is 0.1 mg/kg body weight and therefore severe poisoning can occur with as little as 5 to 7 mg of amanita toxin, an amount that can be present in a single mushroom.

Amanita phalloides - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Amalgam]

I was just coming to link the same article. It’s definitely worth reading as a forensic toxicologist explains what happens to patients and how toxicologists determine whether mushroom poisoning is the culprit.

The good news is that there are definitive tests that give results with scientific certainty.

This article and others regarding this case have pointed out that it may take weeks to determine whether death cap mushroom toxins are present, in part due to the time involved procuring a reference standard sample of alpha amatoxin.

Whilst the likelihood of it taking time to acquire reference samples is true, there are simple qualitative tests for amatoxin that are easy to perform and give quick results. I would assume these tests have been performed and testing involving reference samples will also be performed to verify and confirm the result.

One such qualitative test is the Meixner test. A sample of stool or gastric contents is extracted with methanol, centrifuged and filtered. A drop of this methanol extract is placed on a piece of filter paper and allowed to dry. Once dry a few drops of concentrated hydrochloric acid are applied to the paper. If amatoxin is present a blue colour will develop within a few minutes.

Another test, called Melzer’s test could also be used if mushroom spores are found and extracted from gastric contents or food samples.

 

[Salah11]

Just a very small point, Erin was the chef, and not the chief.

Whoops predictive text

 

[Lubilu]

I've been reading a bit about death caps as I'm not from Aus and while we have them here, popular knowledge isn't as strong I don't think. From https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/fungi-and-lichens/deathcap/:

"Fruitbody: a shiny olive-yellow to greenish-bronze cap, 5–15cm in diameter. Dome-shaped at first and flattening as it matures, darker in the middle with faint radiating fibres giving it a streaked appearance. It smells sickly sweet and rancid when old, though at the button stage is virtually odourless." (Bold by me)

I'm no experienced shroomer, but I found it interesting that the stage where the mushrooms are odourless/less likely to be detected by either odour or taste, presumably, is the 'button' stage. As other people said, lies often bear some element of the truth - 'in essence, they were button mushrooms' ?

ETA: sorry if I'm rehashing old info/something that's been obvious all along to people who know more about mushrooms than me!!

 

[Salah11]

DBM

 

[Ellery84]

A poster pointed out the other day how annoying it is the carelessness of wording in journalism these days.
Which is true but the overall point of the articles doesn't usually change because of it.

However I am sure chef's all over Australia cringe every time they see or hear the would "chef' referring to a person who cooked a home cooked meal!!

Grace Tame often points out the careless, sensationalist and at times senseless and inappropriate terminology that some journalists use. It’s almost like some of their editors either don’t know or don’t care.

Moo

 

[Lubilu]

This article and others regarding this case have pointed out that it may take weeks to determine whether death cap mushroom toxins are present, in part due to the time involved procuring a reference standard sample of alpha amatoxin.

Whilst the likelihood of it taking time to acquire reference samples is true, there are simple qualitative tests for amatoxin that are easy to perform and give quick results. I would assume these tests have been performed and testing involving reference samples will also be performed to verify and confirm the result.

One such qualitative test is the Meixner test. A sample of stool or gastric contents is extracted with methanol, centrifuged and filtered. A drop of this methanol extract is placed on a piece of filter paper and allowed to dry. Once dry a few drops of concentrated hydrochloric acid are applied to the paper. If amatoxin is present a blue colour will develop within a few minutes.

Another test, called Melzer’s test could also be used if mushroom spores are found and extracted from gastric contents or food samples.

This is great info - thanks very much for sharing your knowledge

 

[SMK777]

Erin Patterson: Cops break their silence on mushroom chef's leaked police statement: 'This needs to be dealt with'​

Erin Patterson: Cops break silence on mushroom chef leaked statement

Victoria's second highest ranking police officer has said the leaking of a statement from Erin Patterson about a mushroom meal thought to be linked to the deaths of three people is 'unhelpful'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Ms Patterson said it had not been previously reported that she was also hospitalised after the lunch with bad stomach pains and diarrhoea, and was put on a saline drip and given a "liver protective drug".

She said she was transported by ambulance from the Leongatha Hospital to the Monash Medical Centre in Melbourne on July 31.

The Gippsland Southern Health Service confirmed a fifth person who presented at Leongatha Hospital on July 30 with suspected food poisoning later returned and was sent to Monas

Woman who cooked suspected poisoned meal details where she bought mushrooms

The woman who cooked a meal that is believed to have contained poisonous mushrooms and led to the deaths of three people gives a lengthy written statement to police detailing her account of what happened, and revealing she was hospitalised after the incident.

www.abc.net.au

I’m suspicious … I’d be sure you can just say .. “ooooo my stomach hurts …. And I have had bad diarrhea” …. And no one checks the toilet or asks for a stool sample … and if the DO ask then you say … there’s no more … I flushed it
I’m sooo skeptical

 

[Rumination1]

IMO it’s one of two things
A) she did cook them intending to just inconvenience them
B) her ex planted them
Thinking she’d eat them but pulled out when he heard what was on the menu

 

[SMK777]

IMO it’s one of two things
A) she did cook them intending to just inconvenience them
B) her ex planted them
Thinking she’d eat them but pulled out when he heard what was on the menu

I think she knew enough to know that A couldn’t be true.

 

[Ellery84]

Victoria police deputy commissioner Steendam said the investigation remains ongoing.

'I understand the interest and the desire to have more information about this, but given it's an active investigation … I am limited in what I actually can say about the matter, except to say, it's not going to be quick.

'This needs to be investigated thoroughly. We're working with the health department, and we will take as much time as needed to understand what's occurred and whether or not there are matters that we need to further investigate.'

Erin Patterson: Cops break silence on mushroom chef leaked statement

It seems to me like the Daily Mail are doing a lot of investigating and I quite like reading about it.

It seems pretty clear that Erin leaked her own statement to the media, as they received it before the police even had the time to analyse it and it was received by multiple outlets.

If Erin didn’t release it to the media herself, she’s sure as heck gotten an intermediary to do it for her, JMO. I wonder if she’s hired a PR company to support her? That’s the done thing for persons of interest in homicide cases these days, isn’t it?

All MOO.

 

[Oona]

I am confused about the timing of Erin’s symptoms.

The four lunch guests, experiencing gastro symptoms, presented to local hospitals in the evening of the lunchtime meal(Saturday July 29).
On Sunday July 30, Erin and children also attended hospital as a precaution but were symptom free.
This was presumably in the evening after the children had eaten the leftovers for dinner (with mushroom scraped off). Otherwise who in their right mind would let the children eat the leftovers knowing the meal may have caused illness in the other lunch guests?
Yet it is also claimed that Erin later returned to Leongatha hospital with symptoms on July 30 and was transferred to Monash Medical Centre on July 31.

My main questions are:
when did Erin’s symptoms emerge?
And,
is there such a thing as a mild death cap mushroom poisoning?
Were Erin and children closely monitored by health professionals in the week following their exposure to the mushrooms in case they deteriorated rapidly?

“Inspector Thomas said that Erin and her two children also presented to hospital as a precaution, but noted they did not have symptoms.

However, Erin has since said she was hospitalised with bad stomach pains and diarrhoea, put on a saline drip and given a 'liver protective drug', then later transferred to a hospital in Melbourne.

Gippsland Southern Health Service confirmed last Friday that a fifth individual, who initially came to Leongatha Hospital on July 30 with symptoms of possible food poisoning, later returned and was subsequently transferred to Monash Medical Centre on July 31.”
From The contradictions in the mushroom poisoning case

 

[Ellery84]

I think this situation could be solvable if we were allowed to do what we are not usually allowed to do here.

I don’t agree. I think to solve this case we would need medical records, epidemiological data and toxicology reports as a starting point.

We would also need to interview all witnesses, or at least read their interviews, which we don’t currently have in our possession, and imo neither do the media.

But Web Sleuthers are known for adding value to important cases, so let’s see what value we can add to this case when we all work together…

All imo.

 

[kittythehare]

I’m suspicious … I’d be sure you can just say .. “ooooo my stomach hurts …. And I have had bad diarrhea” …. And no one checks the toilet or asks for a stool sample … and if the DO ask then you say … there’s no more … I flushed it
I’m sooo skeptical

Australian healthcare is a tad more advanced than you suggest.