Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #4

[Neet_Mc]

I suspect the version of care-taking may have been to allow him to stay in the other house that was in her portfolio of property and to ensure he was financially taken care of whilst he was unable to work.

Unless she was doing some full tilt Kathy Bates in Misery routine...

Having a tenant who is not working, and so presumably not paying rent, could work nicely in reducing the income earnt on investment property - and potentially be more favourable to EP financially in tax return.
She may consider this ‘taking care’ of him even though such a lucrative arrangement would line her pockets.
I had an ex (emphasis on ex) who would only visit family if he could buy and sell something on the way and end up financially in front. He would 100% see himself as family orientated person. These people are out there.

 

[kittythehare]

Thank you for your reply.

Homicide squad Detective Inspector Dean Thomas has said Patterson remained a suspect because she cooked the meals. But he has also said police were still considering an accidental poisoning “not at the hands of somebody else” to be a possibility, alongside a potentially “nefarious activity”.

To me, it seems to be saying two different things.

1. EP is a suspect because she cooked the meal.
2. Police also are considering an accidental poisoning alongside potential nefarious activity. (Not directly referring to her like they referred to her in the first sentence).

I don't know which way to make sense of what they wrote.

I don't either.

 

[al66pine]

Living Separately. Inheritance. Legal Separation?

She got her inheritance in 2019 after her mother died. They were still together at that time as far as I can tell. Most likely he would be entitled to a part of it.

@jjenny

1. Color me confused about the separation & relationship.
An article says EP & SP lived "in separate homes for several years before formally separating in 2021." *
So, even tho still married then (& still now, afaik), they lived separately, if this article is accurate. I wonder who/what the source was. EP? SP? Friend of SP who talks to media? Neighbors? Property records? Court records? Or?

2. Inheritance Timing
Mother died in 2019, iiuc, but I wonder if EP received any/all inheritance that same year. If OZ probate works at a glacially slooow pace like probate in some states here in US, distribution may not have been until 2020 or 2021.

Re 1 &2, seems possible they were living separately when she received inheritance from Mother's estate?
Hmmm, IDK.

3. I wonder if either ever filed in court for Legal Separation or LS-related orders (i.e., child support, child custody, maintenance, what-ev.) Finding that could nail down a separation DATE, not that we need to know other info from ct-filed docs. IDK where to start searching in OZ.

___________________________________
* Mushroom cook says she bought fungi from Asian grocer and her children ate the lunch leftovers

 

[kittythehare]

Living Separately. Inheritance. Legal Separation?

@jjenny

1. Color me confused about the separation & relationship.
An article says EP & SP lived "in separate homes for several years before formally separating in 2021." *
So, even tho still married then (& still now, afaik), they lived separately, if this article is accurate. I wonder who/what the source was. EP? SP? Friend of SP who talks to media? Neighbors? Property records? Court records? Or?

2. Inheritance Timing
Mother died in 2019, iiuc, but I wonder if EP received any/all inheritance that same year. If OZ probate works at a glacially slooow pace like probate in some states here in US, distribution may not have been until 2020 or 2021.

Re 1 &2, seems possible they were living separately when she received inheritance from Mother's estate?
Hmmm, IDK.

3. I wonder if either ever filed in court for Legal Separation or LS-related orders (i.e., child support, child custody, maintenance, what-ev.) Finding that could nail down a separation DATE, not that we need to know other info from ct-filed docs. IDK where to start searching in OZ.

___________________________________
* Mushroom cook says she bought fungi from Asian grocer and her children ate the lunch leftovers

That is my understanding.
That link is from august 14th.

 

[kittythehare]

Living Separately. Inheritance. Legal Separation?

@jjenny

1. Color me confused about the separation & relationship.
An article says EP & SP lived "in separate homes for several years before formally separating in 2021." *
So, even tho still married then (& still now, afaik), they lived separately, if this article is accurate. I wonder who/what the source was. EP? SP? Friend of SP who talks to media? Neighbors? Property records? Court records? Or?

2. Inheritance Timing
Mother died in 2019, iiuc, but I wonder if EP received any/all inheritance that same year. If OZ probate works at a glacially slooow pace like probate in some states here in US, distribution may not have been until 2020 or 2021.

Re 1 &2, seems possible they were living separately when she received inheritance from Mother's estate?
Hmmm, IDK.

3. I wonder if either ever filed in court for Legal Separation or LS-related orders (i.e., child support, child custody, maintenance, what-ev.) Finding that could nail down a separation DATE, not that we need to know other info from ct-filed docs. IDK where to start searching in OZ.

___________________________________
* Mushroom cook says she bought fungi from Asian grocer and her children ate the lunch leftovers

Re access to records. Don't think so.

 

[DeDee]

Thank you for your reply.

Homicide squad Detective Inspector Dean Thomas has said Patterson remained a suspect because she cooked the meals. But he has also said police were still considering an accidental poisoning “not at the hands of somebody else” to be a possibility, alongside a potentially “nefarious activity”.

To me, it seems to be saying two different things.

1. EP is a suspect because she cooked the meal.
2. Police also are considering an accidental poisoning alongside potential nefarious activity. (Not directly referring to her like they referred to her in the first sentence).

I don't know which way to make sense of what they wrote.

Your benevolence is appreciated.

For the entire sequence of statements, my interpretation is as follows

1 - EP is the Suspect bc she prepared the meal.

2 - Police are considering an accidental poisoning by EP. Hence, they'll be looking for any evidence that indicates she willfully and knowingly fed DC mushrooms to at least 4 ppl as opposed to the contrary.

3 - I listed a few potential nefarious activities, such as inviting targeted guests to a fatally poisoned meal, in the first reply.

Each one of the statements pertain to Erin P and no one else. If Police somehow find she foraged DC mushrooms, then they need to determine whether or not it was an accident that she possessed DCs to use at the luncheon. The food dehydrator may be key to the solution. That's why she tossed it.

 

[SouthAussie]

Here's info from a Victoria law firm discussing ---
FACTORS OZ COURTS CONSIDER re Property Divisions:
"In most cases, Australian courts will consider the totality of the property available for division between the parties. How and when the property was acquired and each party's contributions to property may ultimately have a substantial impact on what each party keeps as their final property settlement outcome.

"Can I protect particular assets from a property settlement in the event of a separation?
"As demonstrated above, property is defined broadly for the purposes of Australian family law proceedings.
The only way parties can quarantine or protect particular assets or financial interests from a property settlement claim is to address the division of assets (and exclude the jurisdiction of court) by entering into a financial agreement at the commencement of, during or after a relationship/marriage, pursuant to the Family Law Act 1975 (Cth)."

Same law firm:
"Ultimately, unless a financial agreement has been properly prepared and entered into, a former partner may be entitled to property that one party intended to quarantine from a property settlement upon separation – notwithstanding any private understandings or any other agreements that the parties may have had during their relationship.

What is "property" in Australian family law?

In Australian family law, property for division includes assets, liabilities, superannuation and financial resources that the parties have an interest in.

www.landers.com.au

^^^ imo ^^^
If any of our verified legal professionals (esp'ly from OZ) has rung in on this topic, I've missed it.

I definitely think it is better to look at Victorian law in this instance, as opposed to Australian law in general.
Because our laws and precedent may be a little different in each state.

From what I could see when I looked at this matter earlier, EP's inheritance would remain firmly within the couple's assets (ETA: notwithstanding any prior legal agreement to separate that asset)

What can be divided ....

• inheritances

https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/dividing-your-property

Another thing that is encouraged here is mediation and prior agreement on property and custody, before taking the matter to court to be officially stamped.
My niece and her ex-husband went through court ordered mediation, agreed on property settlement and custody, then the court rubber-stamped the agreement.

 

[kittythehare]

I definitely think it is better to look at Victorian law in this instance, as opposed to Australian law in general.
Because our laws and precedent may be a little different in each state.

From what I could see when I looked at this matter earlier, EP's inheritance would remain firmly within the couple's assets.

What can be divided ....

• inheritances

https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/dividing-your-property

Another thing that is encouraged here is mediation and prior agreement on property and custody, before taking the matter to court to be officially stamped.

and those formalities happened in january 2021 when they formally separated, I imagine?
More than 2 years ago.
No way to find out what happened between them before during or after this.

Aussie cops are sharp.
They'll sort it, hopefully.

 

[SouthAussie]

and those formalities happened in january 2021 when they formally separated, I imagine?
More than 2 years ago.
No way to find out what happened between them before during or after this.

Aussie cops are sharp.
They'll sort it, hopefully.

I wouldn't hazard a guess at when any settlement would happen. It can take a long time.

Though I think it is more likely to happen when a permanent breakdown of the relationship happened.

Some couples separate, get back together, separate again ... before finally agreeing on a divorce. I am not sure that a court would legally settle their property if it wasn't designated as a permanent breakdown (divorce, in the case of married persons).

 

[kittythehare]

I wouldn't hazard a guess at when any settlement would happen. It can take a long time.

Though I think it is more likely to happen when a permanent breakdown of the relationship happened.

Some couples separate, get back together, separate again ... before finally agreeing on a divorce. I am not sure that a court would legally settle their property if it wasn't designated as a permanent breakdown (divorce, in the case of married persons).

are divorce records public information in Victoria?
I couldn't find much at all that was open source.

I'm confused because all the articles, which means nothing cos they mostly copy one another, state a formal separation took place but when I search the link you gave me it states clearly that

Separation is when you and your partner stop living together in a domestic or marriage-like relationship.

Your partner does not have to agree to the separation, however they need to know that you think the relationship is over. There are no legal processes to become separated.

Divorce is the official ending of marriage. You must satisfy the court that:

• you and your spouse have been separated and lived apart for at least 12 months
• there is no chance of reconciling your marriage.

Annulment happens when a judge decides that there was no legal marriage.

I'd been thinking it hadn't worked for years and they formalised the ening in something that was not quite divorce but it must be..

 

[SouthAussie]

are divorce records public information in Victoria?
I couldn't find much at all that was open source.

I'm confused because all the articles, which means nothing cos they mostly copy one another, state a formal separation took place but when I search the link you gave me it states clearly that

Separation is when you and your partner stop living together in a domestic or marriage-like relationship.

Your partner does not have to agree to the separation, however they need to know that you think the relationship is over. There are no legal processes to become separated.

Divorce is the official ending of marriage. You must satisfy the court that:

• you and your spouse have been separated and lived apart for at least 12 months
• there is no chance of reconciling your marriage.

Annulment happens when a judge decides that there was no legal marriage.

I'd been thinking it hadn't worked for years and they formalised the ening in something that was not quite divorce but it must be..

No open records that I know of. Family Court issues are typically wrapped in a veil of privacy here. Especially when children are involved.

 

[katydid23]

Your benevolence is appreciated.

For the entire sequence of statements, my interpretation is as follows

1 - EP is the Suspect bc she prepared the meal.

2 - Police are considering an accidental poisoning by EP. Hence, they'll be looking for any evidence that indicates she willfully and knowingly fed DC mushrooms to at least 4 ppl as opposed to the contrary.

3 - I listed a few potential nefarious activities, such as inviting targeted guests to a fatally poisoned meal, in the first reply.

Each one of the statements pertain to Erin P and no one else. If Police somehow find she foraged DC mushrooms, then they need to determine whether or not it was an accident that she possessed DCs to use at the luncheon. The food dehydrator may be key to the solution. That's why she tossed it.

The problem for EP, as I see it, is that the 4 guests became severely ill and she did not. If it was truly accidental poisoning, it doesn't make sense.

I'd think she'd be tasting as she was cooking, and then would have some for lunch too. JMO

 

[SMK777]

The problem for EP, as I see it, is that the 4 guests became severely ill and she did not. If it was truly accidental poisoning, it doesn't make sense.

I'd think she'd be tasting as she was cooking, and then would have some for lunch too. JMO

Exactly. This is why she’s in the position she’s currently in.

 

[Oona]

When EP said, “I lost my parents-in-law, my children lost their grandparents,’’ I wondered why she didn’t also include “Simon lost his parents”.
To me it seems something she’d include and be sad about if she had wanted to reconcile the relationship.

I’m skeptical about the lunch being about discussing EP and SP reconciling their marriage and think it was more likely about the children.
EP suggested that she was fearful of losing custody of her children (after the dehydrator discussion with SP) which makes me think this was an issue of contention for the family.
Perhaps there were mental health concerns about EP and Simon’s family were worried about the children’s welfare.

 

[SMK777]

When EP said, “I lost my parents-in-law, my children lost their grandparents,’’ I wondered why she didn’t also include “Simon lost his parents”.
To me it seems something she’d include and be sad about if she had wanted to reconcile the relationship.

I’m skeptical about the lunch being about discussing EP and SP reconciling their marriage and think it was more likely about the children.
EP suggested that she was fearful of losing custody of her children (after the dehydrator discussion with SP) which makes me think this was an issue of contention for the family.
Perhaps there were mental health concerns about EP and Simon’s family were worried about the children’s welfare.

It’s plausible, definitely.

 

[Rumination1]

I've been wondering the same thing. What if someone who knew that the kids did not eat mushrooms, substituted or added to the bag of mushrooms she thought were from the Asian store. They could have sat in that container for some time until she made a meal with them. I haven't been able to find any info if she had used the mushrooms from that container previously before this meal. It was reported by a neighbour that the entire family foraged for mushrooms, not just her. MOO.

Very true
Perhaps a mushroom meal was intended for her as she was a known mushroom eater
However ,that she didn’t consume any o this day is suspicioys

I also find it odd that she would invite mother and father in law plus aunt and uncle for dinner . I’m divorced and feeding my ex in laws a family meal had never been on the agenda!

 

[Rumination1]

And a Labrador! I’m convinced there were multiple beef wellingtons.

How odd! The following night. By Sunday weren’t the four very sick
Didn’t she go to hospital on the Sunday ?

 

[JLZ]

She got her inheritance in 2019 after her mother died. They were still together at that time as far as I can tell. Most likely he would be entitled to a part of it.

I was wondering if she got some of her money following her father's death. The house she inherited from her mother, split with her sister, wouldn't have funded all her property purchases. Perhaps her mother left a large cash inheritance as well. But if she'd inherited from her father a decade before, it's more likely that her husband would have entitlement.

 

[Rumination1]

EP seems to me to be in a very precarious position … she may be charged with accidental poisoning of her childrens grandparents or with their murder
If it’s the latter , her time in prison will damage her relationship with the children and impact divorce financial settlement
If it’s the former it may still do the same as those kids are going to be troubled by the charges against her

At best she s going to have troubled and traumatised teenagers on her hands
At worst she may lose them completely

The ex husband will eternally blame or suspect her unless the cops prove none of this is true ( ie she was set up)
I really hope this family get clarity soon because I feel for those poor kids caught in this

 

[al66pine]

That is my understanding.
That link is from august 14th.

@kittythehare
In saying that's your "understanding," are you agreeing w all 3 points in my post?
1. Living Separately. I'm confused about timing.
2.Inheritance. EP might not have recvd $ or prop for a yr or two after Mother's 2019 death.
3. Legal Separation? IDK if either ever filed for Legal Separation.

Re Aug 14 article, has some info been corrected or retracted? Or supplemented? TiA

Sorry to be dense. Heading to kitchen for more caffeine.