Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #4

[Oona]

BBM. Again, this is only coming from EP, who supposedly told the police/wrote it in her statement that it happened as a way to explain away her lie about when she disposed of the dehydrator. We have no idea if this event happened. I can't figure where it fits in the timeline.

“Veteran crime writer John Silvester, who has authored a number of best-selling books on crime in Melbourne, said he found one key element of the tragedy “slightly curious”.
“We’ve got the dehydrator from the house that was apparently found in the tip,” he told 3AW radio.

“It’s been reported the dehydrator was disposed of the day after the luncheon, which is slightly curious because the people had just presented to hospital with gastro-like symptoms.”

Mushroom mystery: 'She tried to poison me' - ex-husband's shock 2022 claim

He ended up in a coma following a mystery illness. Now more allegations have surfaced.

www.nzherald.co.nz

This timing is not necessary a known fact, at this point, but would call into question the reliability of EP’s version of events that she disposed of it after SP supposedly asked her about using it to poison his parents.

 

[Charlot123]

One of the videos posted here said the first symptoms were around 11pm? Have you seen otherwise?

It would be interesting to know when the lunch started. My theory, the sooner the symptoms start, the more people ought to have consumed..

 

[ch_13]

I've been wondering if they ate dinner/supper that night. I haven't seen anything about that. Since they were at Erin's place for lunch, I would think they may have eaten again, maybe as a foursome together.

The police have been silent of late, but early on they did speak about the case and give a couple of official press conferences. They discussed the meal at Erin's home in some detail, however at no time did they ever mention that the foursome met to consume food and/or drink apart from the lunch.

If there was another event where Erin wasn't present, then I can think of only two explanations why the police have chosen to not mention it.

1. The cops are idiots and it simply never occurred to them that they should investigate this other gathering where the two couples met up and ate/drank.
2. The cops have chosen to maliciously target Erin and insinuate she's a murderer even though they are aware that there is a strong possibility the poisoning did not occur at the lunch party.

 

[kittythehare]

The two towns of Leongatha and Korumburra are just a 12 min drive apart.

Google maps

I will just add a little further info about the two towns that I had looked up earlier out of interest.

Leongatha has a population of 5.876 (in 2022) Link
Korumburra has a population of 4,749 (from 2021 census) Link

Both very small towns - the kind where everyone knows everyone. imo

I grew up in a similar size town, there wasn't anything we would get away with as kids. Our parents knew what we were up to before we even got home, it seems.
The kind of town where a strange vehicle would be noticed, and people would wonder who was visiting from out of town or if someone had bought a new car.

Wow, I thought they lived a few hours away!
I've held that misconception throughout this.
I meant to ask several times.

It totaly narrows things, does it not/
I too grew up in such a tiny place. No escape as a child, or teenager or adult, even.

 

[al66pine]

Treatment after Death Cap Ingestion?

The kind of milk thistle they use in treating Death Cap poisoning is called silibinin.
The reason that I said "if available" is because I had read an Australian study where they were following the progress of treatment of 10 Death Cap poisoning patients and they stated the following:....
"Maintaining a supply of silibinin to treat patients was a challenge due to the clustering of events ....."....

Amanita phalloides poisoning and treatment with silibinin in the Australian Capital Territory and New South Wales

A review of clinical records of patients treated in Canberra and Sydney identified 10 patients who were likely to have suffered “deathcap” mushroom poisoning between 1999 and 2012. Despite treatment according to current standards, including use of the purported antidote silibinin, eight...

www.mja.com.au

@SouthAussie (sbm) Thanks for your link.

iiuc, btwn 1999 and 2012 in ACT & NSW,
12 patients were treated for death cap ingestion.
9 were administered silibinin.
4 died within a week.
One pt. who did not receive silibinin died.

Sad, sad, sad.
And that's info based on only the reported cases in part of OZ. I wonder how many more deaths are not included because some ppl turn to PeptoBismol or equiv. at home, and a medical link is never made.

Eating death cap mushrooms? Not many people would knowingly do that to savor a special taste or to save a few bucks at tbe grocery. imo.

 

[SouthAussie]

Wow, I thought they lived a few hours away!
I've held that misconception throughout this.
I meant to ask several times.

It totaly narrows things, does it not/
I too grew up in such a tiny place. No escape as a child, or teenager or adult, even.

Another thing I noticed about Leongatha is that it has a Woolworths supermarket.
I had been Google-walking the outskirts of the town to see if I could find where EP's rural home is.

If EP says she bought the fresh button mushrooms at that Woolworths at some point close to the lunch, there may be store CCTV that proves or disproves that purchase.

Woolworths Leongatha

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Treatment after Death Cap Ingestion?

@SouthAussie (sbm) Thanks for your link.

iiuc, btwn 1999 and 2012 in ACT & NSW,
12 patients were treated for death cap ingestion.
9 were administered silibinin.
4 died within a week.
One pt. who did not receive silibinin died.

Sad, sad, sad.
And that's info based on only the reported cases in part of OZ. I wonder how many more deaths are not included because some ppl turn to PeptoBismol or equiv. at home, and a medical link is never made.

Eating death cap mushrooms? Not many people would knowingly do that to savor a special taste or to save a few bucks at tbe grocery. imo.

I too, wondered if there were other deaths from DC that went undiagnosed. But, I think any deaths that occur outside hospital that are “unexpected” are examined by a coroner. So, probably chances of DC poisonings going un noticed are hopefully slim.

 

[al66pine]

Onset of Symptoms after Ingesting DC Mushrooms?

Something tells me the were not in the mood for dinner that night. Symptoms start 4-6 hours after eating.

@jjenny Thank you for posting this info.

@SouthAussie gave link to a med journal in OZ, w a longer lag in onset of symptoms. If I'm reading it correctly and not saying I am, here are numbers of elapsed hours for patients described there:*
8.5, 9, 8.5, 11, 25, 10, (48?), 1, 14, 10, 12, 6.

Like many med. issues, likely varies from one patient to another.

Regardless, must be absolute misery for ppl who ingest DC's, no matter what their outcome.
______________________________
Amanita phalloides poisoning and treatment with silibinin in the Australian Capital Territory and New South Wales
Click on box 2, for these details.

 

[ch_13]

I too, wondered if there were other deaths from DC that went undiagnosed. But, I think any deaths that occur outside hospital that are “unexpected” are examined by a coroner. So, probably chances of DC poisonings going un noticed are hopefully slim.

Someone may try to avoid the hospital during the initial phase when the symptoms are mostly related to GI distress. But once there are signs of organ failure like jaundice, seizures, etc. I think they'd have to seek medical care immediately.

 

[Charlot123]

I too, wondered if there were other deaths from DC that went undiagnosed. But, I think any deaths that occur outside hospital that are “unexpected” are examined by a coroner. So, probably chances of DC poisonings going un noticed are hopefully slim.

Plus, if the person dies from multi-organ failure of a rare type, usually there should be specific changes in the liver, at least. So PM should indicate amatoxin.

 

[Charlot123]

Here is an interesting information about rapid amatoxin test

AMATOXtest – a rapid, sensitive and simple test for amanitin – As simple as a pregnancy test

 

[kittythehare]

Someone may try to avoid the hospital during the initial phase when the symptoms are mostly related to GI distress. But once there are signs of organ failure like jaundice, seizures, etc. I think they'd have to seek medical care immediately.

That's not quite how it works.
They are most likely to present to hospital during the acute stage when symptoms are worst. The rest happens silently.

 

[ch_13]

That's not quite how it works.
They are most likely to present to hospital during the acute stage when symptoms are worst. The rest happens silently.

Yes, of course most people would go to the hospital if they experienced severe GI distress. But I was responding to the post about someone avoiding medical care during the initial phase.

And, I'm not sure what you mean about the 'rest happening silently'. Once your organs start failing you will almost certainly feel that there is something wrong with you. I mentioned jaundice and seizures, but there are many other symptoms as well:
Acute Kidney Failure
Acute Liver Failure

 

[kittythehare]

Another thing I noticed about Leongatha is that it has a Woolworths supermarket.
I had been Google-walking the outskirts of the town to see if I could find where EP's rural home is.

If EP says she bought the fresh button mushrooms at that Woolworths at some point close to the lunch, there may be store CCTV that proves or disproves that purchase.

Woolworths Leongatha

Collection | Woolworths Group Privacy Centre

Find out how, where and why we collect your personal information when you’re shopping in our stores, online, or using our apps.

www.woolworthsgroup.com.au

 

[kittythehare]

Yes, of course most people would go to the hospital if they experienced severe GI distress. But I was responding to the post about someone avoiding medical care during the initial phase.

And, I'm not sure what you mean about the 'rest happening silently'. Once your organs start failing you will almost certainly feel that there is something wrong with you. I mentioned jaundice and seizures, but there are many other symptoms as well:
Acute Kidney Failure
Acute Liver Failure

by which time they are already hospitalised which was my point.
You might find this useful

Mycetism: A Review of the Recent Literature - Journal of Medical Toxicology

Approximately 100 of the known species of mushrooms are poisonous to humans. New toxic mushroom species continue to be identified. Some species initially classified as edible are later reclassified as toxic. This results in a continually expanding list of toxic mushrooms. As new toxic species...

link.springer.com

 

[katydid23]

An unknown person entered her house and tampered with the contents of her pantry to frame her.

How would the framer possibly know when, or if, someone was going to use their dehydrated mushrooms and whom they would feed them to, if anyone?

It doesn't make sense. JMO

 

[kittythehare]

How would the framer possibly know when, or if, someone was going to use their dehydrated mushrooms and whom they would feed them to, if anyone?

It doesn't make sense. JMO

I think it's possibly highly unlikely the framer knew they would be fed to others.

If the framer knew that she was the only mushroom eater in the house, the framer would have assumed she would eat them.
i don't think her social life was particularly 'lit' so if that were a known fact there was every chance she would eat them herself when she was cooking for herself.

Also, those dried mushrooms with the handwritten notes had been stored at another house she had owned and she had to retrieve them.

there are actually endless possibilities.

 

[LordCyrus]

I think it's possibly highly unlikely the framer knew they would be fed to others.

If the framer knew that she was the only mushroom eater in the house, the framer would have assumed she would eat them.
i don't think her social life was particularly 'lit' so if that were a known fact there was every chance she would eat them herself when she was cooking for herself.

Also, those dried mushrooms with the handwritten notes had been stored at another house she had owned and she had to retrieve them.

there are actually endless possibilities.

The unknown framer was primarily targeting Erin, but may have known that the children don't eat mushrooms and would be spared. If he or she knew that Erin is a loner then other victims wouldn't be expected, just collateral damage.

If the unknown framer was someone close to the family, then he or she would decline any invitation to eat in Erin's house.

 

[JLZ]

1. i definitely read that in a link on these very threads.
2. her house is over 1 mil.
3. last minute is only disputed by person of interest.
4. it has been said he got sick every time he was around her.
6. the video i linked says exactly what i typed. she went to a landfill further away.
7. i'm pretty positive she did indeed say that it was a market, i believe thats in the video i posted.

1. I said a reliable source. Who would be likely to know what the in-laws thought of their daughter-in-law?
2. Not to argue about the meaning of 'expensive' . . . by comparison the median house price in Leongatha is about $580,000, and the median house price in Melbourne is about $1 million.

Leongatha, VIC 3953: Suburb Profile & Property Report | YIP

Inform your investment decisions with the latest property market data, trends and demographic insights for Leongatha, Victoria 3953

www.yourinvestmentpropertymag.com.au

https://www.domain.com.au/research/house-price-report/march-2023/

3. I can't be bothered arguing.
4. OK, that's been said.
6. Perhaps we're listening to different parts of the video? About 31:30-32:04, she went to the Koonwarra tip which is about half the distance as that to the Korumburra.
7. I don't recall. Maybe you're right.

 

[DeDee]

Another thing I noticed about Leongatha is that it has a Woolworths supermarket.
I had been Google-walking the outskirts of the town to see if I could find where EP's rural home is.

If EP says she bought the fresh button mushrooms at that Woolworths at some point close to the lunch, there may be store CCTV that proves or disproves that purchase.

Woolworths Leongatha

I'm curious about the location of her house and how close to other she may live. She purchased the property and had the home built, iirc.
AUG 18, 2023 article says she's in S Gippsland. Does that help any?

She left her property! [She returned around the 21st. ~ DM] Where did she go?

"< > $1M villa she bought in the eastern Melbourne suburb of Mount Waverley

Since her inheritance, Erin has bought three properties including a house now infamous for having her children's 'Satanic' scrawlings on the wall and the land on which she built the Leongatha house where she held the mushroom pie lunch.

Ms Patterson returned to that property last week despite complaining she cannot live there because of the media."


Ms Patterson addressed journalists outside her Leongatha home in South Gippsland last week
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/mushroom-cook-erin-patterson-warns-media-of-legal-action-for-trespassing-at-her-leongatha-property-following-fatal-lunch/news-story/c7cccd888bcb2d184941589122d06870

Plus, if the person dies from multi-organ failure of a rare type, usually there should be specific changes in the liver, at least. So PM should indicate amatoxin.

One of the videos shared here has a Doc or expert who stated the end stage of liver failure from amatoxin is due to the liver liquifying. It is why liver transplants are so valuable.

"Behind about nine in 10 poison mushroom deaths, the fungus, known as amanita phalloides, slowly erodes internal organs even before symptoms have fully appeared." erode = gradually liquify