Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #4

[kittythehare]

According to the statement EP gave to her lawyer which was leaked to the media she purchased button mushrooms from a supermarket and dried mushrooms “several months ago” from an Asian market that she can’t identify.

EP herself never said anything about foraging the mushrooms used in the luncheon meal.

A dehydrator does exactly that; it dehydrates food. There is no reason whatsoever to use a dehydrator to dehydrate already dried mushrooms to prepare the duxelles. It’s redundant.

Why EP would think the dehydrator would cause her to lose her children is a mystery. There’s been speculation but nothing has been shared yet by LE. They recovered the dehydrator on August 4 and sent it for forensic testing.

Woman who cooked suspected poisoned meal details where she bought mushrooms

The woman who cooked a meal that is believed to have contained poisonous mushrooms and led to the deaths of three people gives a lengthy written statement to police detailing her account of what happened, and revealing she was hospitalised after the incident.

www.abc.net.au

exactly.
We can speculate that his alleged words were the first hint that he thought she was responsible and, if innocent, it threw her into an irrational state, possibly not because there was anything toxic on the gadget but more like she expected there might be if she didn't get rid of it.

I don't even have the slightest idea of how to describe her personality, I have not seen it except on a couple of occasions when she was highly distressed.

I don't even know if she is competent to work with a lawyer?
she may well be a super efficient accomplished and highly organised lady or none of those things at all.

I cannot even hazard a guess of how she might be feeling, what she knows and what she does not know. or what she will actually do.

media have created several large storms in teacups, to my eyes.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

How dark humour is helping Leongatha, reluctant mushroom town, get on with business

The quiet Victorian town was thrust into the international spotlight when three people died from suspected mushroom poisoning. Locals say community spirit is key to getting on with life.

www.theage.com.au

How dark humour is helping Leongatha, reluctant mushroom town, get on with business​

Behind a paywall I think. Posting it here for those who subscribe.

 

[Ellery84]

2. It was a murder, committed by EP, the motive being revenge, that could be either 2.1 stemming from something to do with the divorce and everything around it or 2.2 stemming from something to do with her mental health. I would like to point out that from everything that I've read, EP had no financial gain nor was she interested in getting back together with her ex husband, while her partner still referred to her as his wife and would have financial gain.

@Sjoberg, I think possibly 2.2

Murder by EP and stemming from something to do with her mental health.

BBM

Jmo

 

[DeDee]

< PSBM >

Murder by EP and stemming from something to do with her mental health.

BBM

Jmo

MH issue is def on the table if she poisoned these lovely people. MOO

"She recently spoke out to deny leaking her earlier statement to police and hit out at media coverage of the case. [Who leaked the formal statement if she didn't?]

“< > I’ve been painted as an evil witch"

EP feels she's being painted as an evil witch. How did that idea get planted in her mind?


AUG 21, 2023

Speaking to the Australian, [experienced psychologist] Watson-Munro, who has worked on catching some of Australia’s biggest criminal offenders, stated: “I’m not a big believer in coincidences.”

1 - The first red flag he highlights was that Patterson’s former husband nearly died twice in 2022 from gastric-related complications.

2 - Watson-Munro isn’t convinced by P’s statement in which she claimed she purchased the mushrooms at an unnamed Asian supermarket.

3 - W-M believes it is “weird” the children were out of the house during what was meant to be a family lunch.

4 - W-M isn’t convinced by P’s statement in which she claimed she purchased the mushrooms at an unnamed Asian supermarket. [He uses the word "ludicrous".]

She lied about the tip.

A paramedic who tended to one of the dying victims was so concerned by their final conversation that they passed details on to detectives.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/australian-mushroom-poisoning-forensic-psychologist-highlights-major-red-flags-in-deadly-case/4WSJWCF4NVCBDIRVCVN6ZWUMNY/

 

[katydid23]

I think it's possibly highly unlikely the framer knew they would be fed to others.

If the framer knew that she was the only mushroom eater in the house, the framer would have assumed she would eat them.
i don't think her social life was particularly 'lit' so if that were a known fact there was every chance she would eat them herself when she was cooking for herself.

Also, those dried mushrooms with the handwritten notes had been stored at another house she had owned and she had to retrieve them.

there are actually endless possibilities.

Then that is not technically 'framing' her, if they tampered hoping she would eat them herself. That is more like murder.

But who would do so, besides someone who also loved the children? How could they knew the poison wouldn't end up on the kid's plates as well?

My kids didn't like mushrooms that much either, but if I made spaghetti sauce, or homemade pizza, I'd throw in chopped up mushrooms and they'd get eaten with the sauce.

 

[Charlot123]

I think it's possibly highly unlikely the framer knew they would be fed to others.

If the framer knew that she was the only mushroom eater in the house, the framer would have assumed she would eat them.
i don't think her social life was particularly 'lit' so if that were a known fact there was every chance she would eat them herself when she was cooking for herself.

Also, those dried mushrooms with the handwritten notes had been stored at another house she had owned and she had to retrieve them.

there are actually endless possibilities.

Here is my opinion.

I am not sure they'll find the "framer", or the "opportunist". There is a slight possibility that it wasn't EP, but to me, the situation looks like intentional poisoning.

"Who" needs to be found, because if not, the subject is the source of constant danger to the community. Whoever was targeted, is important. But less so than the result: three people lost their lives because the person chose poison.

It might take a certain time. But I trust Australian police will do their best.

I wish Ian happy and full recovery.

 

[katydid23]

The unknown framer was primarily targeting Erin, but may have known that the children don't eat mushrooms and would be spared. If he or she knew that Erin is a loner then other victims wouldn't be expected, just collateral damage.

If the unknown framer was someone close to the family, then he or she would decline any invitation to eat in Erin's house.

Would that unknown person , upon declining an invitation, know that other family members were going there to eat lunch? Did that person want the others to possibly eat the tainted food too?

 

[kittythehare]

Then that is not technically 'framing' her, if they tampered hoping she would eat them herself. That is more like murder.

But who would do so, besides someone who also loved the children? How could they knew the poison wouldn't end up on the kid's plates as well?

My kids didn't like mushrooms that much either, but if I made spaghetti sauce, or homemade pizza, I'd throw in chopped up mushrooms and they'd get eaten with the sauce.

No it's not technically 'framing her'.
Like I said we know nothing at all about her normal day- to -day life or routines, whether she had friends over frequently or rarely or whether she socialised outside her home.
We know almost nothing.
We don't even know for sure that her meal was the cause of the poisonings.
or that the poisoning agent has been confirmed as death cap.

 

[katydid23]

The unknown framer was primarily targeting Erin, but may have known that the children don't eat mushrooms

But can you count on that---that the children would not be poisoned by whatever meal was made with the deadly mushrooms? My kids didn't like mushrooms when younger either---but when cooking I often used them in ways that escaped their notice. [Chopped up in spaghetti sauce or on cheese and sausage pizza, they'd consume them without complaining]

and would be spared.

That's a big risk to take.

If he or she knew that Erin is a loner then other victims wouldn't be expected, just collateral damage.

If the unknown framer was someone close to the family, then he or she would decline any invitation to eat in Erin's house.

 

[al66pine]

Rapid Amatoxin Test.

Here is an interesting information about rapid amatoxin test

AMATOXtest – a rapid, sensitive and simple test for amanitin – As simple as a pregnancy test

@Charlot123 That test is quite a development. Thx for posting, which led me to a detailed 2020 article --- "Rapid, Sensitive, and Accurate Point-of-Care Detection of Lethal Amatoxins in Urine" --- from a US gov't website.*

I can't pretend to understand much of the med-speak ; ) in link below, but seems like the test could benefit many ppl, either to confirm that yes, they have ingested toxic mushrooms, or no, they haven't.

And iiuc, same for our doggos, too.

________________________________
* "Globally, mushroom poisonings cause about 100 human deaths each year, with thousands of people requiring medical assistance. Dogs are also susceptible to mushroom poisonings and require medical assistance. Cyclopeptides, and more specifically amanitins (or amatoxins, here), are the mushroom poison that causes the majority of these deaths....
"Distinguishing toxic mushrooms from non-toxic ones is highly challenging, even for expert mycologists. Techniques to properly identify a mushroom include detailed morphological examination of the mushroom body, substrate identification, and knowledge of the location and the season.

Rapid, Sensitive, and Accurate Point-of-Care Detection of Lethal Amatoxins in Urine

Globally, mushroom poisonings cause about 100 human deaths each year, with thousands of people requiring medical assistance. Dogs are also susceptible to mushroom poisonings and require medical assistance. Cyclopeptides, and more specifically amanitins ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[SouthAussie]

Collection | Woolworths Group Privacy Centre

Find out how, where and why we collect your personal information when you’re shopping in our stores, online, or using our apps.

www.woolworthsgroup.com.au

Yes. During the peak of covid I online shopped with home delivery from Woolworths. When I went online the next time to shop, it would show me if any of my "regular items" were on sale. It is very apparent that they track a registered customer's purchasing history.

Every time I use my Woolworths rewards card (to save money on some weekly items at a members price, to accumulate a balance that will give me $10 off my bill every once in a while, to later use at a relevant petrol station for a .4c per litre discount) I think they would have the ability to track my purchases, and where and when.

Maybe they can track EP's supermarket mushroom purchases, if she has and uses a rewards card (many people do). imo
.

 

[katydid23]

MH issue is def on the table if she poisoned these lovely people. MOO

I agree.

"She recently spoke out to deny leaking her earlier statement to police and hit out at media coverage of the case. [Who leaked the formal statement if she didn't?]

“< > I’ve been painted as an evil witch"

EP feels she's being painted as an evil witch. How did that idea get planted in her mind?

Yes, very pointed language and pretty defensive. Which is understandable I guess, if she is totally innocent.

AUG 21, 2023

Speaking to the Australian, [experienced psychologist] Watson-Munro, who has worked on catching some of Australia’s biggest criminal offenders, stated: “I’m not a big believer in coincidences.”

Yes, lots of coincidences which are suspicious here.

1 - The first red flag he highlights was that Patterson’s former husband nearly died twice in 2022 from gastric-related complications.

I hope the medical experts can huddle with the LE investigators and get to the bottom of that.

2 - Watson-Munro isn’t convinced by P’s statement in which she claimed she purchased the mushrooms at an unnamed Asian supermarket.

That seemed odd to me too. I think it is much more likely that she foraged for them, since she also ditched the dehydrator. Why would she need to do that if she hadn't dried out some foraged shrooms earlier?

3 - W-M believes it is “weird” the children were out of the house during what was meant to be a family lunch.

I thought that was really weird too. Grandparents go have lunch at their daughter-in-laws so they can see their grandkids. I'd be bummed out if my granddaughter was not there when I traveled to see them. Unless she has a very good reason.

4 - W-M isn’t convinced by P’s statement in which she claimed she purchased the mushrooms at an unnamed Asian supermarket. [He uses the word "ludicrous".]

Agree.

She lied about the tip.

A paramedic who tended to one of the dying victims was so concerned by their final conversation that they passed details on to detectives.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/australian-mushroom-poisoning-forensic-psychologist-highlights-major-red-flags-in-deadly-case/4WSJWCF4NVCBDIRVCVN6ZWUMNY/

 

[DeDee]

I cannot for the life of me see any possible advantage to killing them all.
She had nothing to gain.
She is independently wealthy.

kittythehare, I pray she did not knowingly commit these poisonings. "Knowingly" is how the law measures intent.

Detective Kenneth Mains, Founder AISOCC
In 2013, he established the American Investigative Society of Cold Cases (AISOCC)
https://www.history.com/shows/the-h...ablished the American,even the most difficult
Det Mains says there's typically 3 reasons people murder:
GSR : Greed, Sex, Revenge

At this stage, we cannot rule out revenge bc we don't know the story or evidence the Police is privy to possessing.

JMOO

 

[Charlot123]

.

I'm curious about the location of her house and how close to other she may live. She purchased the property and had the home built, iirc.
AUG 18, 2023 article says she's in S Gippsland. Does that help any?

She left her property! [She returned around the 21st. ~ DM] Where did she go?

"< > $1M villa she bought in the eastern Melbourne suburb of Mount Waverley

Since her inheritance, Erin has bought three properties including a house now infamous for having her children's 'Satanic' scrawlings on the wall and the land on which she built the Leongatha house where she held the mushroom pie lunch.

Ms Patterson returned to that property last week despite complaining she cannot live there because of the media."
View attachment 444276

Ms Patterson addressed journalists outside her Leongatha home in South Gippsland last week
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/mushroom-cook-erin-patterson-warns-media-of-legal-action-for-trespassing-at-her-leongatha-property-following-fatal-lunch/news-story/c7cccd888bcb2d184941589122d06870

One of the videos shared here has a Doc or expert who stated the end stage of liver failure from amatoxin is due to the liver liquifying. It is why liver transplants are so valuable.

"Behind about nine in 10 poison mushroom deaths, the fungus, known as amanita phalloides, slowly erodes internal organs even before symptoms have fully appeared." erode = gradually liquify

Here: there might be specific symptoms at least prompting the need to consider amatoxi n as part of the diagnosis. The issue is, similar changes in kidneys, liver, adrenal glands.

[The histopathological features of the severe intoxication with amatoxin (toxin contained in Amanita phalloides mushrooms)] - PubMed

Eating mushrooms known to contain amatoxin is fraught with serious complications. The analysis of the relevant literature publications revealed no article with the description of the histological picture of the internal organs in the subjects intoxicated with amatoxin. It is known, however, that...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also, this is a case of a canine poisoning with A. Phalloides.

https://www.askjpc.org/wsco/wsc_showcase2.php?id=cXF2UlRaQ0xmYmVGRHlNQjRnQ2FUdz09

 

[LordCyrus]

I've suggested the possible scenario of an unknown person tampering with food to "murder" or "frame" Erin. Hence there is reasonable doubt about her guilt. For a prosecution to succeed, the police would need to find some really damning evidence like something noted in her own handwriting.

 

[kittythehare]

Yes. During the peak of covid I online shopped with home delivery from Woolworths. When I went online the next time to shop, it would show me if any of my "regular items" were on sale. It is very apparent that they track a registered customer's purchasing history.

Every time I use my Woolworths rewards card (to save money on some weekly items at a members price, to accumulate a balance that will give me $10 off my bill every once in a while, to later use at a relevant petrol station for a .4c per litre discount) I think they would have the ability to track my purchases, and where and when.

Maybe they can track EP's supermarket mushroom purchases, if she has and uses a rewards card (many people do). imo
.

They have lots of CCTV in their stores.. Like an almost excessive amount.

 

[kittythehare]

kittythehare, I pray she did not knowingly commit these poisonings. "Knowingly" is how the law measures intent.

Detective Kenneth Mains, Founder AISOCC
In 2013, he established the American Investigative Society of Cold Cases (AISOCC)
https://www.history.com/shows/the-hunt-for-the-zodiac-killer/cast/kenneth-mains#:~:text=In 2013, he established the American,even the most difficult unsolved murders.&text=In 2013, he established,most difficult unsolved murders.&text=he established the American,even the most difficult
Det Mains says there's typically 3 reasons people murder:
GSR : Greed, Sex, Revenge

At this stage, we cannot rule out revenge bc we don't know the story or evidence the Police is privy to possessing.

JMOO

We can't rule it out or rule it in, actually.
We don't actually know for a fact what or who is responsible for these poisonings.

 

[SouthAussie]

How dark humour is helping Leongatha, reluctant mushroom town, get on with business

The quiet Victorian town was thrust into the international spotlight when three people died from suspected mushroom poisoning. Locals say community spirit is key to getting on with life.

www.theage.com.au

How dark humour is helping Leongatha, reluctant mushroom town, get on with business​

Behind a paywall I think. Posting it here for those who subscribe.

Paraphrased ..

It gives an overview of the town's background - essentially a hard working, farming community, particularly dairy farming - conservative values, primarily English and Scottish heritage residents

Last homicide investigation probably dates back to the 1930s when serial killer Arnold Sodeman killed two of his victims in the area

The townpeople are making dark jokes among themselves due to their recent notoriety .... saying things like Not mushrooms for lunch! and how they should put up a giant mushroom totem in town.

Most people in town do not feel that they have lost one of their own, as EP is relatively unknown (keeps to herself) and the others didn't come from Leongatha.

The article also regurgitates a lot of the poisoning story and the victims' backgrounds, and says that Homicide police are investigating and have confirmed that EP is a suspect.

 

[nightrider17]

If SP had felt that EP was involved in his unfortunate health issues and suspected she tried to poison him.

Maybe he was retaliating by secretly planting dried tainted mushrooms for her consumption only - not thinking that EP would unsuspectingly use them in the dish to serve his parents and relatives. MOO

 

[kittythehare]

Paraphrased ..

It gives an overview of the town's background - essentially a hard working, farming community, particularly dairy farming - conservative values, primarily English and Scottish heritage residents

Last homicide investigation probably dates back to the 1930s when serial killer Arnold Sodeman killed two of his victims in the area

The townpeople are making dark jokes among themselves due to their recent notoriety .... saying things like Not mushrooms for lunch! and how they should put up a giant mushroom totem in town.

Most people in town do not feel that they have lost one of their own, as EP is relatively unknown (keeps to herself) and the others didn't come from Leongatha.

The article also regurgitates a lot of the poisoning story and the victims' backgrounds, and says that Homicide police are investigating and have confirmed that EP is a suspect.

Thank you .