Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #4

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Maybe Ian would say there were mushrooms in the BW and in the gravy.

If she did it:
She made sure the minors didn't dine with the targeted guests at the luncheon.
The minors cannot attest to conversations, actions or anything that happened during the event when they were at the cinema.

4 could have died, if Erin did it. Since Ian came so very close to the edge, it's 3 that died.
Did EP make sure she didn't ingest any of the contaminated mushrooms and feign a brief illness?

SP declined to be present, although invited.
EP's possible intention was for 5 people to die that day, if she knowingly used DC with intent.

JMOO


SEPT 4, 2023

Following her split from Simon, their home in Korumburra was put on the market and tradespeople were hired to repaint the walls.

‘The police were inquiring about it. They wanted to see it. They had heard about it,’ the tradesman said.

The tradesman arranged to meet a detective to hand over the image, which he had already supplied to a news organisation.

‘I said “yeah we can catch up and you can have a look at it”. That was about 3pm and I reckon by 4pm it went live,’ the tradie said. ‘It appeared online within an hour after they rang me.’

New twist in poison mushroom case after 'death wall' uncovered


"Ms Patterson told him she had left the house and the children, believed to be in years 7 and 5, created the artwork while she was out."

Mushroom poisoning cook’s home had creepy ‘death wall’

The painter was relating what Erin herself explained to him about how the drawings came to be drawn on the wall.

Perhaps the 5yo could not spell the words written on the wall, such as; "You don’t long to live 1 hour exactly", whereas, could a 7yo, possibly? An ability to spell varies child to child.

Re the ages of the children, there is no way they were 5 and 7 when they did this.

It has subsequently been reported they are currently 12 and 14. That would make sense as the house with the writing on the wall (boom tish) has been sold since one year ago. Therefore they did the writing at least over one year ago.

If you look at the photo, you can see that they were originally recording their heights on the wall and the older boy had become quite tall indeed. The girl being still a fair bit smaller. The writing and scribbling was within the height ranges of both of them if considering the ease of height one would hold a marker pen to draw on a wall (anywhere from just above head height all the way down to hip level is the most easy range to scribble with no effort).

To me it looks like the smaller (female) one has done some quite innocent things and a cutesy drawing in the red marker and the other older one has joined in at the same time or maybe later writing and scribbling over the top with other stuff not so innocent at all. My strong opinion is there is no way at all that the younger one did the 'scary' writing and the racial slur etc and there is no way at all the elder boy did the cutesy picture of a couple walking in the sun.

<modsnip>

JMO MOO

 

[al66pine]

Journalists in OZ. Codes of Ethics Protecting Children?

Some actually have codes of ethics and protect minor children.

Accountable Journalism

accountablejournalism.org

@kittythehare Thanks for your post w links.

Lots of journalism codes in OZ:*
"Codes of Ethics: Australia/Oceania
Australia Code: Associated Press Code
Australia Code: Australian Journalists Code of Ethics
Australia Code: Australian Journalists’ Association Code of Ethics 1994
Australia Code: Australian Press Council Guidelines for Reporting
Australia Code: Australian Press Council Privacy Code
Australia Code: Australian Press Council’s Statement of Principles
Australia Code: Broadcasting Corp Code
Australia Code: Christian Broadcasters
Australia Code: Herald and Weekly Times
Australia Code: Mirror Australian Telegraph Code
Australia Code: Special Broadcasting Service Codes of Practice
Australia Code: Sydney Morning Herald Code of Ethics
Australia Code: The Age Code of Conduct
Australia Code: The Canberra Times Code
Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance Australia – Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance
Australia- Standards of practice: Suicide reporting"

^ snipped from Accountable Journalism

 

[katydid23]

Maybe Ian would say there were mushrooms in the BW and in the gravy.

If she did it:
She made sure the minors didn't dine with the targeted guests at the luncheon.
The minors cannot attest to conversations, actions or anything that happened during the event when they were at the cinema.

4 could have died, if Erin did it. Since Ian came so very close to the edge, it's 3 that died.
Did EP make sure she didn't ingest any of the contaminated mushrooms and feign a brief illness?

SP declined to be present, although invited.
EP's possible intention was for 5 people to die that day, if she knowingly used DC with intent.

JMOO


SEPT 4, 2023

Following her split from Simon, their home in Korumburra was put on the market and tradespeople were hired to repaint the walls.

‘The police were inquiring about it. They wanted to see it. They had heard about it,’ the tradesman said.

The tradesman arranged to meet a detective to hand over the image, which he had already supplied to a news organisation.

‘I said “yeah we can catch up and you can have a look at it”. That was about 3pm and I reckon by 4pm it went live,’ the tradie said. ‘It appeared online within an hour after they rang me.’

New twist in poison mushroom case after 'death wall' uncovered


"Ms Patterson told him she had left the house and the children, believed to be in years 7 and 5, created the artwork while she was out."

Mushroom poisoning cook’s home had creepy ‘death wall’

The painter was relating what Erin herself explained to him about how the drawings came to be drawn on the wall.

Perhaps the 5yo could not spell the words written on the wall, such as; "You don’t long to live 1 hour exactly", whereas, could a 7yo, possibly? An ability to spell varies child to child.

When the article said "...the children, believed to be in years 7 and 5..."

I am pretty sure they mean 'year 7 in school', which would be about 12 yrs old I think?

 

[Charlot123]

I would be less concerned about body language because EP was cornered. But imagine one simple situation. You invite your ex, his family and extended family to discuss something important. He doesn't come, the rest does. To me, visits on a short notice are a hassle, but nonetheless. You cook a lunch. Probably tell them what it is going to be. In the morning, you have a mild GI upset. This is where the ?? start:

- did you go to the hospital after you found out about your in-laws being admitted, or before?

- who called you to inform that they were in the hospital?

Very important: if you are innocent, for sure you'd ask if they ate/drank somewhere else as well. (Did EP ask this question the first person calling her?)

You have to go through several potential sources of poisoning. Mushrooms - not in season; meat, maybe? Berries from own garden?

- who first offers the version of mushroom poisoning and Beef Wellington, you or the doctors?

- the moment the word "poison" is mentioned, would you even return to the house? What about your kids? (Me - no).

Edited. Seriously. Imagine yourself getting that initial call. Then look at your house, your kitchen, your pantry, your fridge. And think of your course of action when you know only two things: 1) people poisoned at your house and, 2) it wasn't you who did it.
You'll immediately see your course of action. Especially during the first days. If it wasn't done, EP knew it was her.

 

[katydid23]

I would be less concerned about body language because EP was cornered. But imagine one simple situation. You invite your ex, his family and extended family to discuss something important. He doesn't come, the rest does. To me, visits on a short notice are a hassle, but nonetheless. You cook a lunch. Probably tell them what it is going to be. In the morning, you have a mild GI upset. This is where the ?? start:

- did you go to the hospital after you found out about your in-laws being admitted, or before?

- who called you to inform that they were in the hospital?

Very important: if you are innocent, for sure you'd ask if they ate/drank somewhere else as well. (Did EP ask this question the first person calling her?)

You have to go through several potential sources of poisoning. Mushrooms - not in season; meat, maybe? Berries from own garden?

- who first offers the version of mushroom poisoning and Beef Wellington, you or the doctors?

- the moment the word "poison" is mentioned, would you even return to the house? What about your kids? (Me - no).

Edited. Seriously. Imagine yourself getting that initial call. Then look at your house, your kitchen, your pantry, your fridge. And think of your course of action when you know only two things: 1) people poisoned at your house and, 2) it wasn't you who did it.
You'll immediately see your course of action. Especially during the first days. If it wasn't done, EP knew it was her.

I agree, especially with young kids living there. You'd not want them inside until you knew the source of the lethal poison. It could be from the faucets or hidden toxic mold somewhere, or any of the things in the pantry.

I'd have everything in kitchen tossed out by people in hazmat suits if I didn't know what killed my luncheon guests.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I agree, especially with young kids living there. You'd not want them inside until you knew the source of the lethal poison. It could be from the faucets or hidden toxic mold somewhere, or any of the things in the pantry.

I'd have everything in kitchen tossed out by people in hazmat suits if I didn't know what killed my luncheon guests.

That's what I said. OK so the kids are sent away but there's no way me and my dog are staying in a house where the most recent 3 out of 4 visitors are now dead and the 4th is fighting for life.

I wouldn't care what anyone said about food poisoning, I'd be worried for everything from gas leaks to water contamination to being targeted by Russian hit men. I'd be wondering about every product in my home from the dishwasher tablets to mould spores in the air or the beef was contaminated by animal rights activist or my husband is trying to kill us all on and on and on. I'd have to be sedated.

 

[jjenny]

I agree, especially with young kids living there. You'd not want them inside until you knew the source of the lethal poison. It could be from the faucets or hidden toxic mold somewhere, or any of the things in the pantry.

I'd have everything in kitchen tossed out by people in hazmat suits if I didn't know what killed my luncheon guests.

One would hope police collected whatever items were in her kitchen.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree, especially with young kids living there. You'd not want them inside until you knew the source of the lethal poison. It could be from the faucets or hidden toxic mold somewhere, or any of the things in the pantry.

I'd have everything in kitchen tossed out by people in hazmat suits if I didn't know what killed my luncheon guests.

When people close to me were poisoned, I was not living in that house, but planned to return. First, it takes a while to understand that it is a poison, and what kind of a poison. (And before you know it is poison, where do people go, most frequently? With lots of symptoms from different organs? You got it, into infectious diseases. So hazmat suits are no jokes).

Then the doctors notice symptoms indicating a poison. Even when you know what it is, the next questions is, where did it come from? This is where you absolutely refuse to even come to that place. For some reason, I was suspecting salt or something like barley, or wheat. So, yes, you'd be begging the police to test everything, or throw it all out, and when they find the figure out the source, you still ask them to fingerprint and test everything. You end up throwing everything, food, makeup or toothpaste, yourself.

And btw, in EP's case, as she has several properties, you tend to check all properties. Because if she didn't poison anyone, she had the right to assume that she was the target.

And now imagine you thinking that someone targets you, placed something into your home that you, unbeknownst to yourself added to your food. 1) lawyer or not, but you would want to make police your best friend, this is exactly that situation, you need protection from potential assailant, and 2) you want to send a potential hitman the message that you are protected, day and night. Never would you lie to the police, this is a no-no.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

When people close to me were poisoned, I was not living in that house, but planned to return. First, it takes a while to understand that it is a poison, and what kind of a poison. (And before you know it is poison, where do people go, most frequently? With lots of symptoms from different organs? You got it, into infectious diseases. So hazmat suits are no jokes).

Then the doctors notice symptoms indicating a poison. Even when you know what it is, the next questions is, where did it come from? This is where you absolutely refuse to even come to that place. For some reason, I was suspecting salt or something like barley, or wheat. So, yes, you'd be begging the police to test everything, or throw it all out, and when they find the figure out the source, you still ask them to fingerprint and test everything. You end up throwing everything, food, makeup or toothpaste, yourself.

And btw, in EP's case, as she has several properties, you tend to check all properties. Because if she didn't poison anyone, she had the right to assume that she was the target.

And now imagine you thinking that someone targets you, placed something into your home that you, unbeknownst to yourself added to your food. 1) lawyer or not, but you would want to make police your best friend, this is exactly that situation, you need protection from potential assailant, and 2) you want to send a potential hitman the message that you are protected, day and night. Never would you lie to the police, this is a no-no.

Thank you for sharing your experience, that's fascinating, but I'm terribly sorry you went through such a terrifying experience.

Something strikes me that EP seems very remotely located and alone, in a way she maybe be lucky that the press are on her doorstep.

 

[SouthAussie]

When the article said "...the children, believed to be in years 7 and 5..."

I am pretty sure they mean 'year 7 in school', which would be about 12 yrs old I think?

That is exactly what it means. I explained before that we do not say Grades 7 & 5 in Australia, we say Years 7 & 5.

I had posted a Vic link that gives the ages of children in each Year. I will post it again, so there is hopefully no further confusion.


Year 5 - age turned that year = 11
Year 7 - age turned that year = 13

https://www.concordsch.vic.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Student-Age-and-Year-Level-Policy1.pdf

 

[iridized]

Just curious, have any of her neighbors or local friends spoken out about her or her children?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That is exactly what it means. I explained before that we do not say Grades 7 & 5 in Australia, we say Years 7 & 5.

I had posted a Vic link that gives the ages of children in each Year. I will post it again, so there is hopefully no further confusion.


Year 5 - age turned that year = 11
Year 7 - age turned that year = 13

https://www.concordsch.vic.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Student-Age-and-Year-Level-Policy1.pdf

And this would align exactly with the heights of the children marked on the wall, the male being pretty much adult height. And the heights of their arm reach if standing in front of the wall with a marker pen would mean both drew on the wall.

 

[Charlot123]

Thank you for sharing your experience, that's fascinating, but I'm terribly sorry you went through such a terrifying experience.

Something strikes me that EP seems very remotely located and alone, in a way she maybe be lucky that the press are on her doorstep.

Thank you, I luckily avoided any poisoning. The case itself happened during such a historically messy time, that no ends to lots of crimes could ever be found. BTW, from personal experience, in any case of poisoning, the final victim might very well not be the intended target. In the case I was privy to, i suspect that the victims were two steps removed from the potential target and didn't even know him personally.

BTW, poison control centers in different countries accumulate interesting information, and not only about antidotes. God forbid it happens to anyone, but sometimes it makes sense to call several, because what is culturally common in one country is highly unlikely for another one.

So I can imagine that someone could target EP or the kids (meaning, still EP as the mother), and other people got poisoned as a collateral accident. The only question would be the strange reaction of EP. My two explanations would be, EP knows more about how the poison got into the food than she pretends she does, or, the source is not her, she knows who it is but is silent because she is afraid of making things worse.

Finally - survivors of poisoning might have long-lasting consequences. My best wishes for Ian, but if he has to retire prematurely because of the sequelae, this, too, could be a reason for a legal action on his part.

 

[jjleroche]

Thank you, I luckily avoided any poisoning. The case itself happened during such a historically messy time, that no ends to lots of crimes could ever be found. BTW, from personal experience, in any case of poisoning, the final victim might very well not be the intended target. In the case I was privy to, i suspect that the victims were two steps removed from the potential target and didn't even know him personally.

BTW, poison control centers in different countries accumulate interesting information, and not only about antidotes. God forbid it happens to anyone, but sometimes it makes sense to call several, because what is culturally common in one country is highly unlikely for another one.

So I can imagine that someone could target EP or the kids (meaning, still EP as the mother), and other people got poisoned as a collateral accident. The only question would be the strange reaction of EP. My two explanations would be, EP knows more about how the poison got into the food than she pretends she does, or, the source is not her, she knows who it is but is silent because she is afraid of making things worse.
.
Finally - survivors of poisoning might have long-lasting consequences. My best wishes for Ian, but if he has to retire prematurely because of the sequelae, this, too, could be a reason for a legal action on his part.

What a horrific experience to have endured.

I really hope that things have improved dramatically for you

 

[Charlot123]

And this would align exactly with the heights of the children marked on the wall, the male being pretty much adult height. And the heights of their arm reach if standing in front of the wall with a marker pen would mean both drew on the wall.

And now imagine the children. They are removed from the house, they must feel horribly, not sure if they are allowed to return back to school, and the whole country is discussing their "death wall", and whether it is satanic, demonic, evidence of mental illness ot age-appropriate.

What a horrific experience to have endured.

I really hope that things have improved dramatically for you

Thank you for your kind words! It was not me, luckily.
My latest observation, besides, "toxins are different", is that in toxicology, which is an interesting area, one part is missing, and this is remote sequelae in survivors. They are very different, but maybe, there are certain regularities that no one has studied?

 

[al66pine]

Legal Action by Ian?

.... Finally - survivors of poisoning might have long-lasting consequences. ... if he [Ian] has to retire prematurely because of the sequelae, this, too, could be a reason for a legal action on his part.

@Charlot123 snipped for focus.
You so often bring up intriguing points. Thx for your post.

Are you thinking of a personal injury suit from the poisoning, w Ian seeking to recover special damages like medical expenses, lost earnings, etc. and general damages for pain & suffering, loss of enjoyment of life, etc?

Are you envisioning this even before any criminal charges that may be filed or only after a crim trial?

Or something else?

 

[Charlot123]

Legal Action by Ian?

@Charlot123 snipped for focus.
You so often bring up intriguing points. Thx for your post.

Are you thinking of a personal injury suit from the poisoning, w Ian seeking to recover special damages like medical expenses, lost earnings, etc. and general damages for pain & suffering, loss of enjoyment of life, etc?

Are you envisioning this even before any criminal charges that may be filed or only after a crim trial?

Or something else?

We don’t know about criminal trial. The wheels of this case will be moving slowly. Ian is 68. I don’t know if it is OK and recommended to start a civil lawsuit before criminal one, but Ian, besides his age and situation, is the only one unrelated to EP. Or very remotely related. Maybe poor Ian was even taken as a “show of force” to that luncheon. Anyhow, I wish him good luck and speedy recovery!

 

[JBowie]

Highly informative video on death cap mushroom identification:

 

[mirage1]

<modsnip - quoted post and response to it were removed>

I think there will be more developments in this case. But I also think there's a huge possibility EP will remain uncharged through lack of evidence, possibly the opinions of her ex husband will be considered malicious, some people will believe she's got away with murder, others will think she's been a victim of terrible circumstance, and others will just be undecided.

I would be very surprised if this case ever makes it to charges never mind going to court. If no-one can say for sure where the group ingested the poison it is possible they were intentionally or accidentally murdered by someone else entirely. JMO MOO

Where they got poisoned is one of the easiest things to work out through looking at the timing of them getting sick and when they were last all together eating something. Its not that complicated and from the evidence we have seen its from the lunch. I think the evidence is already looking very powerful and thats just form what we know.

 

[kittythehare]

Where they got poisoned is one of the easiest things to work out through looking at the timing of them getting sick and when they were last all together eating something. Its not that complicated and from the evidence we have seen its from the lunch. I think the evidence is already looking very powerful and thats just form what we know.

Not exactly!
For one thing the latency is 6-24 hrs.

Mushroom Poisoning - PMC

Poisonous mushrooms are eaten by mushroom hunters out of ignorance, after misidentification as edible mushrooms, or as a psychoactive drug. Mushroom poisoning commonly leads to consultation with a poison information center and to hospitalization. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

For another, death cap ingestion has not been confirmed as source of poisonings.