Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #4

[jjleroche]

And if all this were true, then why hasn't an innocent woman, falsely named as a person of interest, been publicly cleared—and more importantly, been reunited with her young children?

The point I was trying to make was that any ingestion of toxins may not necessarily have occurred at the lunch at EP's, and that there are other plausible possibilities.

As far as EP being cleared if this were the case, we have already learned via official sources, that toxicology results could take weeks. A reference standard is required in order to analyze samples, and may need to be sourced from another country. Once the reference standard is received, the analysis of tissue samples itself is very complex and time-consuming. IMO related due diligence invesigations would need to be finalised prior to clearing EP.
This all requires time. JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

At this point, there has been no official confirmation whatsoever that death cap mushrooms were the cause of the victims' illnesses and deaths. There are numerous other possibilities.

I did not mention anything at all about stopping off on the way to EP's. What I mentioned was the possibility of the two couples stopping off later, on their way home, OR at one of their homes (which I consider the more likely option.) If the latter were the case, and they ingested a toxin at that point, no-one else would have become ill if it were just the four of them. MOO

I imagine it's highly probably they would want to debrief SP of how the conversation had gone down and any relevant information. I should imagine they'd have gone round to his home for a discussion.

 

[jjleroche]

And to add, the four initially presented at hospital with symptoms suspected to be food poisoning. Doctors would want a history of what they ate over the last 12 to 24 hours, not just what they had for lunch.

LE hasn’t said anything about other possible sources of the poison and EP remains the sole POI.

How do you know that EP remains the sole POI? Could you provide a link please? TIA

 

[ch_13]

How would she or could she know what the foursome were doing before and after? it's not normal to monitor other people's daily mundane lives. These four were obviously close and could have been grouping together in all manner of circumstances.

They could have all been at an evening meal the night before? Met for breakfast and coffee and chat before going to E's home? Could have been at a morning prayer service? Gone for a post meeting discussion and analysis afterwards? Gone to the pub? Gone wine tasting. Gone straight round to SP's to report back? Gone to a sports game or a hill walk or a garden party or even gone shopping together... who knows... anything.

I mean god what if they went on a bush walk after the lunch and foraged mushrooms or berries and poisoned themselves! What if there's someone else who's got it in for them all not in relation with anything to do with EP or SP?

Who knows. How could EP possibly know that?

All of these things are possible and none of them are impossible thus far.

I think part of our difference of opinion is that you're considering what's possible, while I'm more focused on what's probable.

And in my opinion, the most probable set of events is that the foursome were poisoned at EP's house. There are just too many other coincidences and circumstances that would have to line up for EP to not be involved somehow. But I will concede that it's not impossible.

As for how would Erin know what happened before or after her lunch? Surely this would have been the main subject of conversation after they all fell ill and went to the hospital, right? Who ate where, when, and what? We know she was visiting them with her kids because that's when the subject of the dehydrator came up. So again, I think it's improbable that she wouldn't know about their movements and mention it in her statement.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think part of our difference of opinion is that you're considering what's possible, while I'm more focused on what's probable.

And in my opinion, the most probable set of events is that the foursome were poisoned at EP's house. There are just too many other coincidences and circumstances that would have to line up for EP to not be involved somehow. But I will concede that it's not impossible.

As for how would Erin know what happened before or after her lunch? Surely this would have been the main subject of conversation after they all fell ill and went to the hospital, right? Who ate where, when, and what? We know she was visiting them with her kids because that's when the subject of the dehydrator came up. So again, I think it's improbable that she wouldn't know about their movements and mention it in her statement.

Unless she's been a red herring...

But until we get verified evidence (will we ever?) there's just so little to go on.

It could be said it's 'probable' people died from mushroom poisoning from eating Beef Wellington *if* EP intentionally poisoned them.

But if four people hang out together and they ate foraged mushrooms for breakfast first thing that morning, that would explain how they could have ingested the exact same poison and EP didn't get sick as she literally wasn't there.

She's acting guilty and a bit odd but she could be paranoid and spooked and panicking.

What do LE know of what everyone ate and where I wonder? Was anyone in a fit stated to give details? First they thought they had 'gastro' next up they were in intensive care and before long they were deceased. How much did they get to communicate?

What if someone else has got it in for this group of four? maybe something to do with their religion or something else?

 

[kittythehare]

Unless she's been a red herring...

But until we get verified evidence (will we ever?) there's just so little to go on.

It could be said it's 'probable' people died from mushroom poisoning from eating Beef Wellington *if* EP intentionally poisoned them.

But if four people hang out together and they ate foraged mushrooms for breakfast first thing that morning, that would explain how they could have ingested the exact same poison and EP didn't get sick as she literally wasn't there.

She's acting guilty and a bit odd but she could be paranoid and spooked and panicking.

What do LE know of what everyone ate and where I wonder? Was anyone in a fit stated to give details? First they thought they had 'gastro' next up they were in intensive care and before long they were deceased. How much did they get to communicate?

What if someone else has got it in for this group of four? maybe something to do with their religion or something else?

EXACTLY.

In a discussion it's good to discuss all options and variables.
People don't have to agree but there is no evidence that is open source to say definitively one way or another.
Repeating the same points is meaningless and futile.

The two couples were close.
In the current state of knowledge we only know that they were poisoned.
We know they shared one lunch together but they possibly shared many meals in each others' houses quite frequently.
Or even in another place..
We don't know enough about their lives to say with any degree of certainty whether they did or not.
We don't know whether there other suspects because LE has not disclosed that information.
That is not the same as a declaration that she remains the only suspect.

 

[Charlot123]

I imagine it's highly probably they would want to debrief SP of how the conversation had gone down and any relevant information. I should imagine they'd have gone round to his home for a discussion.

If they showed symptoms by midnight, it is less likely to be SP’s house. Or any place to meet after luncheon. Plus, it is not unlikely that SP was not even game by that time.

 

[MsMarple]

How do you know that EP remains the sole POI? Could you provide a link please? TIA

Erin Patterson: Cops break silence on mushroom chef leaked statement

Victoria's second highest ranking police officer has said the leaking of a statement from Erin Patterson about a mushroom meal thought to be linked to the deaths of three people is 'unhelpful'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Charlot123]

Personally, I don't put a lot of stock into the "travel together" theory. Do people often share a car even for short distances?

Korumburra and Leongatha are less than fifteen minutes apart by car. It's a very short drive. If you have to stop along the way and pick another couple up, knock on their door, wait for them to put on their shoes and lock up, etc. you've probably doubled your travel time.

Generally, I would only carpool when parking at the destination is limited or costly, like when going to a ballgame or a concert. Long roadtrips as well, I guess, but that's a different situation.

But my thoughts are probably colored by my own experiences. I hate carpooling to parties in particular because when I want to leave I always have to wait for the other couple who inevitably take 30 minutes to say their goodbyes while I'm standing at the door with my coat in my hand.

It depends on the parking space before EP’s house. If enough for two cars, I’d assume, separately. JMO.

 

[jjleroche]

Erin Patterson: Cops break silence on mushroom chef leaked statement

Victoria's second highest ranking police officer has said the leaking of a statement from Erin Patterson about a mushroom meal thought to be linked to the deaths of three people is 'unhelpful'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thank you for the link. I can't see anything there stating that EP remains the sole POI. Maybe I missed it.

I did note the following in the link -

"Daily Mail Australia does not suggest Erin tried to poison Simon or her four guests or is in anyway responsible for their deaths.
There is also no suggestion police suspect she is involved in the deaths or poisonings only that she is a person of interest. "

 

[jjenny]

When the four ended up in the hospital, obviously they were asked what they ate to see what the common food was.
They were obviously alive and talking for a while before they died. So I am not sure why we are discussing imaginary coffee breaks.

 

[iridized]

EXACTLY.

In a discussion it's good to discuss all options and variables.
People don't have to agree but there is no evidence that is open source to say definitively one way or another.
Repeating the same points is meaningless and futile.

The two couples were close.
In the current state of knowledge we only know that they were poisoned.
We know they shared one lunch together but they possibly shared many meals in each others' houses quite frequently.
Or even in another place..
We don't know enough about their lives to say with any degree of certainty whether they did or not.
We don't know whether there other suspects because LE has not disclosed that information.
That is not the same as a declaration that she remains the only suspect.

Have the police issued any warnings regarding eating or drinking at establishments, purchasing mushrooms at a store (Asian or otherwise), or in any way led anyone to believe that there is a danger to the public?

 

[jjenny]

At this point, there has been no official confirmation whatsoever that death cap mushrooms were the cause of the victims' illnesses and deaths. There are numerous other possibilities.

I did not mention anything at all about stopping off on the way to EP's. What I mentioned was the possibility of the two couples stopping off later, on their way home, OR at one of their homes (which I consider the more likely option.) If the latter were the case, and they ingested a toxin at that point, no-one else would have become ill if it were just the four of them. MOO

Where are they going to stop in this rural area? It's not like there is a cofree shop on every corner.

 

[jjenny]

Have the police issued any warnings regarding eating or drinking at establishments, purchasing mushrooms at a store (Asian or otherwise), or in any way led anyone to believe that there is a danger to the public?

Of course not. I don't think this area even has coffee shops in proximity. It's a rural area.

 

[kittythehare]

Have the police issued any warnings regarding eating or drinking at establishments, purchasing mushrooms at a store (Asian or otherwise), or in any way led anyone to believe that there is a danger to the public?

The police have not even confirmed the poison to be death cap.
Or confirmed the source of the poisoning was EP's lunch.
Warnings would be issued by food safety and health.

 

[jjenny]

The police have not even confirmed the poison to be death cap.
Or confirmed the source of the poisoning was EP's lunch.
Warnings would be issued by food safety and health.

Did food and safety issue any warnings?

 

[MsMarple]

Thank you for the link. I can't see anything there stating that EP remains the sole POI. Maybe I missed it.

I did note the following in the link -

"Daily Mail Australia does not suggest Erin tried to poison Simon or her four guests or is in anyway responsible for their deaths.
There is also no suggestion police suspect she is involved in the deaths or poisonings only that she is a person of interest. "

Logically, if LE hasn’t named another suspect or POI then EP remains the sole POI. I haven’t seen any statement from LE about an additional POI.

 

[LadyL]

How do you know that EP remains the sole POI? Could you provide a link please? TIA

because they haven't named anyone else ...

 

[LadyL]

Unless she's been a red herring...

But until we get verified evidence (will we ever?) there's just so little to go on.

It could be said it's 'probable' people died from mushroom poisoning from eating Beef Wellington *if* EP intentionally poisoned them.

But if four people hang out together and they ate foraged mushrooms for breakfast first thing that morning, that would explain how they could have ingested the exact same poison and EP didn't get sick as she literally wasn't there.

She's acting guilty and a bit odd but she could be paranoid and spooked and panicking.

What do LE know of what everyone ate and where I wonder? Was anyone in a fit stated to give details? First they thought they had 'gastro' next up they were in intensive care and before long they were deceased. How much did they get to communicate?

What if someone else has got it in for this group of four? maybe something to do with their religion or something else?

[bbm]

but she said she did get sick, bad enough to go to the hospital

 

[kittythehare]

because they haven't named anyone else ...

They're not obliged to name anybody else or to disclose details of an investigation.
they had very strong words to say about trial by social media.

Deputy Police Commissioner Wendy Steendam told ABC Radio Melbourne: "Working on an investigation through the media is unhelpful to our investigation.

"The matter needs to be dealt with by us, looked at (by) us, and determined by us thoroughly what's actually occurred, and using the evidence that we have to determine and understand exactly what's happened and if we can explain what caused the deaths."

When asked about its contents, the Deputy Commissioner added she thought it would be inappropriate to "speculate" on what remained an active investigation.

"I don’t think it’s helpful to actually comment further on this investigation," she said.

"It is an active matter and when we have more to say publicly, we'll do that. But I think to speculate or to talk about the aspects of the investigation in detail is unhelpful."

Australian police blast media over 'unhelpful' reporting of Erin Patterson poisoned mushroom case

Detectives probing the death of three people following a poisonous mushroom lunch say the leaking of chef Erin Patterson's police statement has been "unhelpful" and hampered investigators.

www.lbc.co.uk

'Unhelpful': Vic Police blasts media over mushroom chef coverage

Media coverage of a statement given to police by the woman who cooked a mushroom meal that is believed to have killed three people in regional Victoria was "unhelpful", the state's Deputy Police Commissioner Wendy Steendam has claimed.

www.skynews.com.au

Deputy Commissioner Steendam warned on Thursday that the inquiry into the deaths of Ms Patterson's relatives would be lengthy and added that police had been "very clear" in informing the public they were yet to determine the cause.

"We're keeping an open mind about what has actually occurred," she said.

"This needs to be investigated thoroughly. We're working with the health department, and we will take as much time as needed to understand what's occurred and whether or not there are matters that we need to further investigate."