Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5 *Arrest*

[kittythehare]

EP has never once claimed they brought food over. So what makes you believe they did when it’s never even been hinted at?

it was discussed in quite a lot of detail here in mid August.
It was actually reported by MSM.

Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #2

Excellent points! I have been discussing with medical partner just how she could have faked her illness. But seemed to recall somewhere in the media, that she presented to a hospital in Gippsland and was then transferred by ambulance to a Melbourne Hospital. Maybe this is either fanciful...

www.websleuths.com

'each guest brought a dish to the meal'

Watch: Crime reporter Chris Vedelago reveals details of Erin Patterson’s statement to police

In her statement to Victoria Police, Erin Patterson claimed she had panicked and dumped a food dehydrator after people began accusing her of intentionally poisoning the meal. She also reveals what she cooked and who ate what.

www.watoday.com.au

1.10 mins.

 

[al66pine]

Guest-Supplied Food? Or Not? What Did EP Say?

EP’s leaked statement never mentioned guests bringing over other food. Which would be highly important if this did actually happen but she has literally never claimed this.

snipped for focus. @Salah11 Respectfully ---

Briefly, AFAIK, we don't know EVERYTHING EP said -
--- in "leaked" stmt,
--- to LE,
---to Health Dept. (or equiv't),
--- to other ppl who may have been interviewed by LE.
[ETA: Guests may or may not have brought food &drink]

___________________________________
Not so briefly.
Are we sure, do we know as a fact that EP's leaked stmt failed to mention (claim?) that one or more of the guests did not bring food to the luncheon. IDTS, but ICBW.

AFAIK, we have not seen an image/repro. of EP's entire stmt, which may or may not reference guest-supplied food or drink. What I have seen are some quotes and some paraphased snippets from EP's "leaked" stmt.

Admittedly, EP could have made this claim to a journo since the "leak" but If she did, seems the journo has kept mum.

OTOH, if guest(s) did actually bring food or drink, EP now publicly announcing that might be a bit...well, awkward?
For EP to throw shade on her guests, suggesting that one (or more. Okay, "more" seems doubtful) of them supplied poisoned food or drink which killed three & caused grievous bodily harm to the fourth.

If EP made no claim about guest-supplied food or drink in her earlier "leaked" stmt, now weeks later, what would be the the point of EP saying anything publicly on the topic? I would not foresee a groundswell of public sympathy for her based on a stmt about that.

Doubters gonna doubt.
Believers gonna believe.
eta: Haters gonna hate.

And some remain neutral and discuss possibilities & probabilities while awaiting medical examiner/coroner to complete reports, LE to finish investigation, and maybe/maybe not crim. charges.

 

[Ellery84]

The separation occurred before SP became ill, which explains why she was reluctant to care for him IMO.

Did it? On what date did they seperate?

 

[kittythehare]

Guest-Supplied Food? Or Not? What Did EP Say?

snipped for focus. @Salah11 Respectfully ---

Briefly, AFAIK, we don't know EVERYTHING EP said -
--- in "leaked" stmt,
--- to LE,
---to Health Dept. (or equiv't),
--- to other ppl who may have been interviewed by LE.

___________________________________
Not so briefly.
Are we sure, do we know as a fact that EP's leaked stmt failed to mention (claim?) that one or more of the guests did not bring food to the luncheon. IDTS, but ICBW.

AFAIK, we have not seen an image/repro. of EP's entire stmt, which may or may not reference guest-supplied food or drink. What I have seen are some quotes and some paraphased snippets from EP's "leaked" stmt.

Admittedly, EP could have made this claim to a journo since the "leak" but If she did, seems the journo has kept mum.

OTOH, if guest(s) did actually bring food or drink, EP now publicly announcing that might be a bit...well, awkward?
For EP to throw shade on her guests, suggesting that one (or more. Okay, "more" seems doubtful) of them supplied poisoned food or drink which killed three & caused grievous bodily harm to the fourth.

If EP made no claim about guest-supplied food or drink in her earlier "leaked" stmt, now weeks later, what would be the the point of EP saying anything publicly on the topic? I would not foresee a groundswell of public sympathy for her based on a stmt about that.

Doubters gonna doubt.
Believers gonna believe.

And some discuss possibilities & probabilities while awaiting medical examiner/coroner to complete reports, LE to finish investigation, and maybe/maybe not crim. charges.

it was reported at this link, Alpine, in mid August.

Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #2

Excellent points! I have been discussing with medical partner just how she could have faked her illness. But seemed to recall somewhere in the media, that she presented to a hospital in Gippsland and was then transferred by ambulance to a Melbourne Hospital. Maybe this is either fanciful...

www.websleuths.com

Direct link, it's at 1.10 approx into the video interview attached

Watch: Crime reporter Chris Vedelago reveals details of Erin Patterson’s statement to police

In her statement to Victoria Police, Erin Patterson claimed she had panicked and dumped a food dehydrator after people began accusing her of intentionally poisoning the meal. She also reveals what she cooked and who ate what.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[LadyL]

IMO I suspect most of us would feel upset if "cornered" by bevy of hyena-like reporters baying for blood.

I do agree that the reporter's behaviour was outrageous on HER property and thrust mics in her face right up to her doorway. That would set me off too.

 

[SouthAussie]

I disagree regarding SP having any claim on EP’s assets. I don’t believe they were separated until last year (around the time of SP’s hospitalization) and either way, it is my understanding that all the property becomes part of an asset pool in a divorce in Australia.

In my opinion divorce/money and custody are obvious factors in this scenario.

I, too, think SP may have a claim on EP's inheritance.

EP & SP were obviously still together in April 2018 - when she told internet 'friends' that she had a cleaner for the heavy cleaning, and SP did not know.

EP's mum died in "early 2019".

I have read EP & SP separated in 2021, I have read they were separated for 'years' (said by SP's anonymous friend, and could mean 2021), I have read they separated after SP's illness in May 2022.

 

[Oona]

They lived separately for years, in fact. Their separation was finalised in january 2021.

Can you direct me to a source that indicates that they separated in 2021?
I’m not sure what is meant by “their separation was finalized” in this context, is it implying that consent orders for property division, child support/ custody were in place?

The source I cited for a separation in 2022 is:
“My family were asked to come and say goodbye to me twice, as I was not expected to live.”

The couple are believed to have separated soon afterwards”

Did this mum poison her relatives with death cap mushrooms?

Could this suburban mum of two really have poisoned four of her relatives by serving them death cap mushrooms in a beef wellington?

thewest.com.au

 

[al66pine]

Guest-Supplied Food at the Luncheon?

it was reported at this link, Alpine, in mid August.

Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #2

Excellent points! I have been discussing with medical partner just how she could have faked her illness. But seemed to recall somewhere in the media, that she presented to a hospital in Gippsland and was then transferred by ambulance to a Melbourne Hospital. Maybe this is either fanciful...

www.websleuths.com

Direct link, it's at 1.10 approx into the video interview attached

Watch: Crime reporter Chris Vedelago reveals details of Erin Patterson’s statement to police

In her statement to Victoria Police, Erin Patterson claimed she had panicked and dumped a food dehydrator after people began accusing her of intentionally poisoning the meal. She also reveals what she cooked and who ate what.

www.watoday.com.au

@kittythehare Thank you very much for linking the WAtoday.com and vid.

IIUC, both the article & vid are based on the sworn, written stmt by EP, provided to LE, which was then leaked & circulated to media. Yes?
Okay, if so, then she made a stmt, fairly early on, about guest-supplied food or drink at the luncheon.

Per closed captions, at 1:07 et seq:
"... invited her friends over and they um they all brought a dish something to eat and she cooked beef wellington..."

This does not seem to be a direct quote from EP's stmt but a reporter's rephrasing. But assuming rephrasing is accurate, EP said guests brought a dish, something to eat.

Glad you pointed me to this specific article & vid.
And I can consider its veracity in light of other info & circumstances as well as EP's other stmts and actions.

ATM, I can't think of a solid reason for lying about it.
Gotta think about it.

_______________________________

Watch: Crime reporter Chris Vedelago reveals details of Erin Patterson’s statement to police

In her statement to Victoria Police, Erin Patterson claimed she had panicked and dumped a food dehydrator after people began accusing her of intentionally poisoning the meal. She also reveals what she cooked and who ate what.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[kittythehare]

Can you direct me to a source that indicates that they separated in 2021?
I’m not sure what is meant by “their separation was finalized” in this context, is it implying that consent orders for property division, child support/ custody were in place?

The source I cited for a separation in 2022 is:
“My family were asked to come and say goodbye to me twice, as I was not expected to live.”

The couple are believed to have separated soon afterwards”

Did this mum poison her relatives with death cap mushrooms?

Could this suburban mum of two really have poisoned four of her relatives by serving them death cap mushrooms in a beef wellington?

thewest.com.au

It's been linked several times already.
Here is one.

Patterson and her estranged husband, Simon, had an acrimonious relationship, and had been living in separate homes for several years before formally separating in 2021

Mushroom cook says she bought fungi from Asian grocer and her children ate the lunch leftovers

Erin Patterson told police she, too, was sick from the beef Wellington lunch that police suspect killed her former in-laws and another relative.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Sor Juana]

Interesting...

A common medical product available in Australia is an antidote to Death Cap mushroom poisoning - but scientists say the victims would have needed it four hours after the beef Wellington

 

[Oona]

It's been linked several times already.
Here is one.

Patterson and her estranged husband, Simon, had an acrimonious relationship, and had been living in separate homes for several years before formally separating in 2021

Mushroom cook says she bought fungi from Asian grocer and her children ate the lunch leftovers

Erin Patterson told police she, too, was sick from the beef Wellington lunch that police suspect killed her former in-laws and another relative.

www.theage.com.au

Thank you kitty.
I suppose “formally separating” implies their marrriage was irretrievable but not necessarily that any legal property or parenting arrangements had been made.
It does make me wonder how the media created a narrative about them reconciling their marriage.

 

[kittythehare]

Guest-Supplied Food at the Luncheon?

@kittythehare Thank you very much for linking the WAtoday.com and vid.

IIUC, both the article & vid are based on the sworn, written stmt by EP, provided to LE, which was then leaked & circulated to media. Yes?
Okay, if so, then she made a stmt, fairly early on, about guest-supplied food or drink at the luncheon.

Per closed captions, at 1:07 et seq:
"... invited her friends over and they um they all brought a dish something to eat and she cooked beef wellington..."

This does not seem to be a direct quote from EP's stmt but a reporter's rephrasing. But assuming rephrasing is accurate, EP said guests brought a dish, something to eat.

Glad you pointed me to this specific article & vid.
And I can consider its veracity in light of other info & circumstances as well as EP's other stmts and actions.

ATM, I can't think of a solid reason for lying about it.
Gotta think about it.

_______________________________

Watch: Crime reporter Chris Vedelago reveals details of Erin Patterson’s statement to police

In her statement to Victoria Police, Erin Patterson claimed she had panicked and dumped a food dehydrator after people began accusing her of intentionally poisoning the meal. She also reveals what she cooked and who ate what.

www.watoday.com.au

We don't know what they allegedly brought to the meal for sharing.
We don't know that death cap was the causative agent in their deaths.
We do not have the autopsy results of the victims and we do not have access to any laboratory or medical reports.
That's a huge vacuum.

None of this was helped by gossip foddering media.
Like this.

Lawyers acting for deadly mushroom chef forced to snail mail messages

Lawyers acting for deadly mushroom chef Erin Patterson have been forced to camp outside her home to hand deliver her legal instructions after she went missing on Thursday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Eventually they went way way way too far by incriminating the minor child of EP as the creator of their macabre death wall conspiracy theory...

Then they stopped.
It took more than their meaningless superfluous disclaimers though.
They actually targeted a minor child.
They identified her contra to every single law on journalism and minors in Australia.
Mischief.
Sheer mischief.
Utterly egregious.

 

[katydid23]

IMO I suspect most of us would feel upset if "cornered" by bevy of hyena-like reporters baying for blood.

EP had succeeded in separating from Simon Patterson, and moving on to an independent life away from them.

You are not FULLY 'independent and away ' from your spouse when you have 2 minor children together. There are a lot of serious decisions that need to be made concerning teenagers, and the parents need to be on the same page.

As has been previously discussed, separation had already occurred when EP and her sister received an inheritance. In Australia, that would therefore mean that it would be unlikely that SP would have any claim on that portion of her assets.

The word 'unlikely' denotes a grey area. It leaves open the possibilities for legal tussles. It is not cut and dry.

"Looming custody issues" - really? AFAIK there has been official information to demonstrate this. Speculation only IMO - speculation does not equal fact.

When a separated couple has young children there are always looming custody issues. Things need to be legally clarified, in writing.

It gives SP leverage if he threatens to sue for joint or full custody. And he can prevent her from automatically having full custody and making all the important decisions, like where they live and where they attend school , etc.

We know they had different religious beliefs, which can become magnified and heightened as the children mature and begin to voice their own desires.

Reportedly, this luncheon was actually a negotiation between SP's family and EP. I wonder what ,exactly , they were negotiating? I believe it was probably concerning the children in some way. Custody? Choice of schools? Church attendance?

 

[MsMarple]

Guest-Supplied Food at the Luncheon?

@kittythehare Thank you very much for linking the WAtoday.com and vid.

IIUC, both the article & vid are based on the sworn, written stmt by EP, provided to LE, which was then leaked & circulated to media. Yes?
Okay, if so, then she made a stmt, fairly early on, about guest-supplied food or drink at the luncheon.

Per closed captions, at 1:07 et seq:
"... invited her friends over and they um they all brought a dish something to eat and she cooked beef wellington..."

This does not seem to be a direct quote from EP's stmt but a reporter's rephrasing. But assuming rephrasing is accurate, EP said guests brought a dish, something to eat.

Glad you pointed me to this specific article & vid.
And I can consider its veracity in light of other info & circumstances as well as EP's other stmts and actions.

ATM, I can't think of a solid reason for lying about it.
Gotta think about it.

_______________________________

Watch: Crime reporter Chris Vedelago reveals details of Erin Patterson’s statement to police

In her statement to Victoria Police, Erin Patterson claimed she had panicked and dumped a food dehydrator after people began accusing her of intentionally poisoning the meal. She also reveals what she cooked and who ate what.

www.watoday.com.au

So are you thinking the relatives had mistakenly foraged death caps and cooked them into a side dish to accompany EP’s beef Wellington?

Otherwise what relevance is there to them bringing food of any kind to the lunch? Has LE said anything about testing food brought in from a different source? As far as I understand the focus is only on food prepared by EP.

Apologies if I’m misunderstanding your comment.

 

[katydid23]

I too hope for answers, and I very much hope that the truth will emerge.

Yes, this is indeed a serious matter - a very serious matter. The lives of Erin Patterson and her children will be forever scarred by this whole episode.

There have been many unfair assumptions made by some posters on this forum.

What makes you think that "it doesn't look (at this time) that the four were poisoned earlier or elsewhere"?
The four were related, and very close. It's entirely possible that dined/had a beverage together later. Additionally, given Australian custom, they likely brought food/beverages to the lunch - the deadly toxin may have been in something which they brought. IMO

When each of the 4 ill victims entered the hospital, the medical experts quickly began investigating what the source of the illness was. Each of the victims would have told the investigators about EVERYTHING they all ate and drank together in the prior 48 hours.

If, in fact, one of the 4 brought a side dish, the medical experts knew that at the time they were investigating. If, in fact, they had stopped somewhere for food or drink before and/or after, the experts would have been told.

In spite of the investigators having ALL of that other information, they narrowed it down and continued to focus upon Death Cap poisoning as the probable source. They did so because there were tell tale medical symptoms which mirrored the symptoms of poisonous mushrooms. It was not just a wild guess on their part.

I think we can now be assured that there was nothing brought by the victims that had a deadly toxin. Nor did they stop at a restaurant on the way to and from and eat stuffed deadly mushrooms. If so, the investigation would have included that type of information, to protect the public from a similar fate. JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

When each of the 4 ill victims entered the hospital, the medical experts quickly began investigating what the source of the illness was. Each of the victims would have told the investigators about EVERYTHING they all ate and drank together in the prior 48 hours.

If, in fact, one of the 4 brought a side dish, the medical experts knew that at the time they were investigating. If, in fact, they had stopped somewhere for food or drink before and/or after, the experts would have been told.

In spite of the investigators having ALL of that other information, they narrowed it down and continued to focus upon Death Cap poisoning as the probable source. They did so because there were tell tale medical symptoms which mirrored the symptoms of poisonous mushrooms. It was not just a wild guess on their part.

I think we can now be assured that there was nothing brought by the victims that had a deadly toxin. Nor did they stop at a restaurant on the way to and from and eat stuffed deadly mushrooms. If so, the investigation would have included that type of information, to protect the public from a similar fate. JMO

I agree that the Dept of Health would have covered a lot of bases right away. They can't have half of Leongatha dying from food poisoning,

It is notable that any dish the guests may have contributed (perhaps a sweet or dessert?) did not make EP or her children ill.

DI Thomas says the children ate a separate meal. But if Nanna and Grandad brought lemon meringue pie, one would think they would have had some.


He said the four family members were invited to the home on July 29, where they had lunch with Erin and her two kids.

Inspector Thomas said the two children ate a different meal to the adults. He would not confirm which of the two meals Erin had eaten, but said that would form part of the investigation.

The contradictions between police reports and Erin Patterson's statement

 

[Charlot123]

I think there are relevant material reasons she might want to erase her ex and his family. They were separated, headed for imminent divorce. They had a few properties that needed to be divided up and that is very stressful. On top of that, there is the looming custody issues.

I really don't think she wanted to have a 50/50 custody arrangement, since she claimed that her partner 'was never home and never helped her.'

And she may have felt pressured by her in-laws, to let SP have more time with the kids. The disparity between EP being a proud atheist and her ex and his family being devoutly religious may have reared its ugly head here as well.

I feel like she maybe wanted the freedom to raise her kids the way she wanted to without the annoying interference from SP and his family. JMO

I would suspect that both money and unwillingness to share 50/50 custody played its role. Plus, I have noticed many times that the parent who is more distant, but at the same time fun to be with, is to whom the kids may be more attached. Maybe Simon is humorous and joking and can make even church attendance fun? I think there might have been pure jealousy at play.

I think that people in these small places are gossiping. A handyman was invited to the house and took the photo of that wall. Who knows who else came in, a housecleaning lady, a nanny, and how much they were discussing? And then it was collected by the local Ms. Marples, some of whom were probably attending the Baptist church in Korumburra. One wonders if there was the whole laundry list to discuss and mostly before the meeting. The meeting was the show of force, two families coming to EP (as I think) with a preformed opinion. I believe that EP, like any private person, didn’t want to be discussed, and maybe she felt that the Ps knew too much. I think she felt cornered, alone and abandoned.

 

[kittythehare]

Thank you kitty.
I suppose “formally separating” implies their marrriage was irretrievable but not necessarily that any legal property or parenting arrangements had been made.
It does make me wonder how the media created a narrative about them reconciling their marriage.

an alleged 'anonymous friend' of SPs as retold in DM fashion.
I disregarded it almost immediately.
It is interesting that almost all media portrayed her as villian.
Police are furious about media handling .

“What I would say is that anything that’s in the media … working on an investigation through the media is unhelpful to our investigation,” Steendam said.


“The matter needs to be dealt with by us, looked at [by] us, and determined by us thoroughly what’s actually occurred, and using the evidence that we have to determine and understand exactly what’s happened and if we can explain what caused the deaths.”
Steendam said she was uncertain if the statement was handed to the media before it was given to police.

Deputy police chief slams ‘unhelpful’ circulation of mushroom cook’s statement

Victoria Police say their lengthy investigation into the deaths of three people will include examining the veracity of Erin Patterson’s statement about the fatal lunch.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Kemug]

Interesting...

A common medical product available in Australia is an antidote to Death Cap mushroom poisoning - but scientists say the victims would have needed it four hours after the beef Wellington

Thank you for this very interesting article. It gives great hope for victims of eating Death Cap mushrooms. But this medication having to be administered within 4 hours is a big problem - I believe at that time the Leongatha victims still had no symptoms? So this medication would have been no use to them. It would only be useful in these present times if any victims soon thought/realised that the mushrooms they had eaten were probably/possibly deathcaps. Or if a murderer (if any) repented before the 4 hours was up.
But science is advancing all the time, and it is surely possible that in the future the 4 hour window of opportunity could be extended.

 

[al66pine]

Guest-Provided Food? More.

So are you thinking the relatives had mistakenly foraged death caps and cooked them into a side dish to accompany EP’s beef Wellington?

Otherwise what relevance is there to them bringing food of any kind to the lunch? Has LE said anything about testing food brought in from a different source? As far as I understand the focus is only on food prepared by EP.

Apologies if I’m misunderstanding your comment.

@MsMarple Thanks for responding. Pls reread my post.

No, not saying I suspect the guests brought DC mushrooms or any other harmful food to EP's luncheon. Nope, nope, nope.

AFAIK, LE hasn't said anything about testing food from other sources. IDT they've said anything much since in the past couple weeks or more (but I could have missed it).

If EP is charged, yes, questions about guest-provided food are likely, imo to be raised at trial.

Part of Crim.Def. 101 = LE had tunnel vision & rushed to arrest our client, did not fully explore possibilities other than our client; leaving the real killer out there.
Hence my thought that LE are checking possibilities to rule out other explanations for these tragic deaths and injury. So the def team cannot make headway w ReasDoubt, by arguing it was a sloppy investigation.
jmo
[ETA: I reread my post and realized that not much of this came thru there.]