Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #11

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I had done it originally very very early on in the peace.... but it wasn't until JES must complained to the mods much later on in the threads, and it was deleted. I actually thought JES was Ian !!!! haven't seen him/her around much!


I can guarantee you that I am not "Ian". I am a 40 year old female from SA and have no connection to anyone involved in this case either directly or indirectly. I have not been around much as I have been extremely busy in my own life with taking on a new full time job, part time study, looking after my 2 daughters and husband and running a household.

My concern with the posting of this information was that it was a breach of the posting guidelines for this forum. Although I did not like what this person had posted on their FB page they were not a POI in this case and we should not have been looking into them anyway.

While I am just as keen to see justice done for Allison I also feel it is important to respect the privacy of those who are not responsible for this tragic crime. Put yourself in their position and think about how you would feel if a member of your family was suspected of doing something this terrible and what it would be like to have your privacy invaded due to your association with that person.

Yes this particular FB page was not set on private at the time but it was still off bounds not only as far as I was concerned but also as far as the guidelines for this forum were concerned.

I hope this puts this to rest and people can move on and discuss the facts of this case.

I am still trying to keep up with posting the media links for these threads however at the moment they have not been a priority for me.
 
Thats a big call and opens a whole other can of worms........which brings me back to my own unanswered question about when she came down from Brownsville.

Yep....Some say she was down for holidays already, some say she came the evening before, some say she found out at 7:30 and made it to Brisbane to bring the kids too school (Yeah Right) and some say she came later on.

Does anyone know when?
 
Yes he is . We dont know that they do support GBC having affairs. I imgaine they might like most people woudl not think it a fair thing to do . But we dont now that

You never no, the revelations of the affair (s) might be a real shock to SOME members of the family...and if that is so it could be quite painful for them. The other side is that some members of the family may have been aware and trying to help change the situation. who knows.
 
Thats a big call and opens a whole other can of worms........which brings me back to my own unanswered question about when she came down from Brownsville.

After much speculating here for a while, it was reported in the media that the kids were at a sleepover on Thursday evening. The article must be in the Timeline Thread if anybody wants to check. Sorry, don't recall the date.

Someone local and "in the know" said Olivia flew down on Saturday morning.
 
IMPORTANT INFORMATION

For a few days in a row, there have been numerous TOS violations on this case. While it may seem harmless to some, we are getting dozens of complaints from other members who want to discuss this case constructively. From now on, there will be more time outs issued to those who repeatedly choose to ignore our guidelines.

Here are just some of the problems that occur over and over:

* Baiting /Trolling / Inciting Conflict:There are times when a member violates our rules by trying to upset other members. Please use your ALERT feature when this happens and DO NOT RESPOND TO THE POSTS. When a moderator is able to deal with the problem, it takes a LOT less time when he/she doesn't have to also deal with all the responses to the offense. Plus, it makes the one who initially started the conflict keep on going.

* Inviting/Baiting: This is when someone says they have information they can't share on the forum. Then someone else asks for them to PM the information. It's like be at a party and whispering secrets to each other and is not allowed here. If you have something private to share, then send a private message and don't announce it on the public thread.

* Dreams/Visions: WS doesn't condone dreams and visions and psychic information. There are plenty of sites out there on the WWW that do, but we are not one of them. We have not found that information to be helpful in solving cases.

* Announcing alerts: Don't announce that you are alerting. Just do your part and make the alert and move on.

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* “Off-Topic” Posts: Off-Topic posts are subject to editing or removal at administrative discretion, and without notification. Members that continuously post off topic may have their posting privileges suspended. There is a chat thread created just for you guys. Go there and discuss things that interest you, or just to joke around in a positive manner. This thread is for discussion of Allison's murder.

None of these rules are new and a more detailed explanation of them can be found here: Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Everyone is now being held responsible for knowing the rules.

I'm bumping Kimster's post because evidently some of you haven't read it. This thread had to be closed this morning to remove a lot of inappropriate posts. Many were off topic, but even more were personal attacks and snipes at other members.

DO NOT and I mean DO NOT discuss other members.

Kimster will be here later today to assess the damage and timeouts will be issued.

PLEASE discuss the case facts and take your chit chat to to the chat thread.

Thank you!
 
You never no, the revelations of the affair (s) might be a real shock to SOME members of the family...and if that is so it could be quite painful for them. The other side is that some members of the family may have been aware and trying to help change the situation. who knows.

Possibly... but {IMO} I thought that the other woman had a fair bit to do with the family?
 
Quote Aberline_1979: "Well, another rumour I recall hearing/reading about early on in the investigation is that GBC was not actually the person who called the police that morning. Instead, one of the neighbours did - telling them about the “loud shouting/fighting” they heard from the residence the night before, and that it might be worth checking in to see if everything is okay. Consequently, when the police did arrive that morning, GBC and NBC were caught completely off-guard. When asked if everything is okay, NBC only THEN reports to the police that his wife has been “missing” for several hours."

Excellent post BTW ~ Thanks! :)
However, maybe you meant that when NBC was asked by the police during their 'surprise' & highly unexpected visit, if everything was okay, NBC only THEN reported to the police that his daughter-in-law aka GBC's wife had been “missing” for several hours???
Since GBC had apparently alerted Allison's parents around 7am (or was it 7:30am?), maybe THEY immediately called the police & insisted on an inspection at their daughter's house ASAP? < Hence their unexpected arrival & NBC having (possibly ~ if true of course!) been caught vacuuming Allison's car. In which instance, GBC would've either been trying to call a lawyer, and/or, ensuring that any incriminating evidence be 'cleaned' / 'removed' and/OR 'staged' / 'added' to fit with his inevitable all or partially 'fabricated' alibi of a little domestic row having turned rather ugly ... or whatever?
Just a thought from another continent!
 
Thats a big call and opens a whole other can of worms........which brings me back to my own unanswered question about when she came down from Brownsville.

Yes it is but after some sleuthing Its a call Im happy to make.
Im only a learner sleuth but....
 
Thats a big call and opens a whole other can of worms........which brings me back to my own unanswered question about when she came down from Brownsville.

This has been discounted by media reports and covered extensively in prior threads.

Fact: The children were at a sleepover at the senior BC's that Thursday evening.

Fact: The sister of GBC flew down to Brisbane later on the Friday and was not in town on the Thursday evening/Friday morning.

At the conclusion of thread 9 there is an extensive fact sheet link (prepared by another poster - thank you) that details all known facts in the murder of Allison to date. I hope that it clears up some grey areas for you both. :fence:
 
Yay.....I thought that very early on. This guy is a sociopath. No guilt???

We have to be careful when labeling someone with a personality disorder like sociopathic or narcissistic or anything else. I am sure that there will be time for such labels and diagnosis when the offender is put in:jail: and forensic psychologists etc. assess him. Until then....be careful.

When I was at UQ (at the same time Allison was there, though I don't know her) as part of my course we had many subjects involving psychology/ psychiatry/ mental health and we learned a lot about various disorders, personality's etc.. As students we were always struck by how many people we knew or even ourselves personally that exhibited aspects of certain personality's/ syndromes/ disorders etc. We would laugh because of this also realizing that these people probably didn't have the particular diagnosis that we were studying. This helped us understand that we have to be careful with this material. The diagnosis of a particular mental health problem/ personality disorder or other issue of this nature is very specific and takes time and the skill of highly trained professionals who have specific diagnostic criteria to work with. We can't make these assumptions based on a few video snippets of GBC, and bits of local gossip.... especially when most of us aren't psychologists or psychiatrists.

By the way I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist but I am an Allied Health Professional. I also don't live in Qld anymore and don't know anyone involved with this case.

thats twice now that you have mentioned that you dont know anyone involved in this case.....is that important to you that you get that message across?
 
Hi everyone,

This is my first post here. Nice to meet you all. I've been following the Baden Clay case on here since day one. I live at Riverhills (a few suburbs away), and we don't get too many murders in this neck of the woods. That and the prominence of this case in the media up here are the main reasons I've become a regular reader, and have now decided to contribute the odd post or two.

Just so you all know, I'm also the kind of person who only likes to stick to the facts (or reasonably sourced "gossip") as much as possible. I've been pleased to see that most of the "speculation" about this case on these forums has in fact turned out to be accurate. I'd like to contribute what little I can. Finally, just so you know, I do not know anyone at all connected to this case.

So...I thought I might start by just summarising the facts (as I understand them) and my thoughts about what likely happened to Allison. If anyone wants to compliment or criticize my theories, you're more than welcome to do so.

Okay, here we go...


1. WHO DID IT?

Murderer: GBC
Accomplice/s: either one or both of NBC or TM


2. EVIDENCE / RUMOURS?

2.1. Against GBC.


- Woeful "performance" before the media (i.e. no concern shown for his wife, no suggestion/hope that she might still be alive, avoids answering most of the questions put to him).

- Highly suspicious car crash at Indooroopilly Bus Station. I've driven past there a thousand times before, and to crash where he did you either have to have a wheel fall off, or crash deliberately.

- THAT beard...

- Not showing up at the command centre while the search was ongoing.


3. WHY?

Two likely possibilities:

i) A domestic assault which GBC took too far (i.e. not pre-planned). GBC's subsequent terrible performance/s before the media and his little "accident" at the Indooroopilly bus station do make it seem like he did not plan to kill his wife.

ii) The more sinister possibility - her murder was pre-planned. Obviously his Real Estate business was in BIG trouble, and they were forced (presumably) to rent their current house, and he had to sell his new Lexus. ABC is said to have had a very generous life insurance policy. Also, the fact that GBC was apparently trying to "integrate" TM into the role of wife/mother may suggest that he was trying to "replace" Allison with her.


4. POSSIBLE ACCOMPLICE/S TO GBC.

4.1. NBC.

GBC calls him in a state of panic. ABC is lying dead or unconscious on the floor and he doesn&#8217;t know what to do. NBC drives over, possibly suspecting the worst, possibly not. Either way, they soon both realise they are left with a dead body of a woman neither of them seem to like any more, and can either dispose of it, or call the police/ambulance. They decide to do the former (otherwise the &#8220;family name will be ruined forever&#8221;).

Later that night, a white 4WD and a smaller blue car are seen driving back towards Brookfield from Kholo Creek.

Later that night, a member of the public reports seeing an old man sitting at the bus stop facing the roundabout outside Kenmore Village. His behaviour gives her/him the impression that he is trying to hide something. This incident is reported to police the following day.

*However...what colour car does NBC drive? At this stage, no one appears to know for sure.


4.2. TM.

GBC calls her in a state of panic. ABC is lying dead or unconscious on the floor and he doesn&#8217;t know what to do. TM drives over in her (blue?) car and they decide what to do next.

Later that night, a white 4WD and a smaller blue car are seen driving back towards Brookfield from Kholo Creek.

*However...what colour car does TM drive? At this stage, no one appears to know for sure, although earlier on the BLUE car that GBC crashed at Indooroopilly Police Station was rumoured to belong to TM.



5. FURTHER, UNCOMFIRMED RUMOURS.

The following information can only be classified as a rumour at this stage (i.e. from a &#8220;friend of a friend&#8221;). However, I do believe that the person I heard it from was a reasonably trustworthy source:

-----
According to this person, when the police first arrived at GBC&#8217;s house on 20 April at (about) 7:30am, they found NBC in the garage, vacuuming out ABC&#8217;s car.
----

Now, that sounds quite incriminating. However, if GBC reported his wife missing that morning, surely the LAST thing he would want is for his Father to be caught vacuuming out his wife&#8217;s car when the arrived, right?

Well, another rumour I recall hearing/reading about early on in the investigation is that GBC was not actually the person who called the police that morning. Instead, one of the neighbours did - telling them about the &#8220;loud shouting/fighting&#8221; they heard from the residence the night before, and that it might be worth checking in to see if everything is okay. Consequently, when the police did arrive that morning, GBC and NBC were caught completely off-guard. When asked if everything is okay, NBC only THEN reports to the police that his wife has been &#8220;missing&#8221; for several hours.

A previous post stated that NBC's car was a goldy coloured car. Also was posted yesterday that TM drives a black BMW.
 
Hi everyone,

This is my first post here. Nice to meet you all. I've been following the Baden Clay case on here since day one. I live at Riverhills (a few suburbs away), and we don't get too many murders in this neck of the woods. That and the prominence of this case in the media up here are the main reasons I've become a regular reader, and have now decided to contribute the odd post or two.

Just so you all know, I'm also the kind of person who only likes to stick to the facts (or reasonably sourced "gossip") as much as possible. I've been pleased to see that most of the "speculation" about this case on these forums has in fact turned out to be accurate. I'd like to contribute what little I can. Finally, just so you know, I do not know anyone at all connected to this case.

So...I thought I might start by just summarising the facts (as I understand them) and my thoughts about what likely happened to Allison. If anyone wants to compliment or criticize my theories, you're more than welcome to do so.

Okay, here we go...


1. WHO DID IT?

Murderer: GBC
Accomplice/s: either one or both of NBC or TM


2. EVIDENCE / RUMOURS?

2.1. Against GBC.


- Woeful "performance" before the media (i.e. no concern shown for his wife, no suggestion/hope that she might still be alive, avoids answering most of the questions put to him).

- Highly suspicious car crash at Indooroopilly Bus Station. I've driven past there a thousand times before, and to crash where he did you either have to have a wheel fall off, or crash deliberately.

- THAT beard...

- Not showing up at the command centre while the search was ongoing.


3. WHY?

Two likely possibilities:

i) A domestic assault which GBC took too far (i.e. not pre-planned). GBC's subsequent terrible performance/s before the media and his little "accident" at the Indooroopilly bus station do make it seem like he did not plan to kill his wife.

ii) The more sinister possibility - her murder was pre-planned. Obviously his Real Estate business was in BIG trouble, and they were forced (presumably) to rent their current house, and he had to sell his new Lexus. ABC is said to have had a very generous life insurance policy. Also, the fact that GBC was apparently trying to "integrate" TM into the role of wife/mother may suggest that he was trying to "replace" Allison with her.


4. POSSIBLE ACCOMPLICE/S TO GBC.

4.1. NBC.

GBC calls him in a state of panic. ABC is lying dead or unconscious on the floor and he doesn’t know what to do. NBC drives over, possibly suspecting the worst, possibly not. Either way, they soon both realise they are left with a dead body of a woman neither of them seem to like any more, and can either dispose of it, or call the police/ambulance. They decide to do the former (otherwise the “family name will be ruined forever”).

Later that night, a white 4WD and a smaller blue car are seen driving back towards Brookfield from Kholo Creek.

Later that night, a member of the public reports seeing an old man sitting at the bus stop facing the roundabout outside Kenmore Village. His behaviour gives her/him the impression that he is trying to hide something. This incident is reported to police the following day.

*However...what colour car does NBC drive? At this stage, no one appears to know for sure.


4.2. TM.

GBC calls her in a state of panic. ABC is lying dead or unconscious on the floor and he doesn’t know what to do. TM drives over in her (blue?) car and they decide what to do next.

Later that night, a white 4WD and a smaller blue car are seen driving back towards Brookfield from Kholo Creek.

*However...what colour car does TM drive? At this stage, no one appears to know for sure, although earlier on the BLUE car that GBC crashed at Indooroopilly Police Station was rumoured to belong to TM.



5. FURTHER, UNCOMFIRMED RUMOURS.

The following information can only be classified as a rumour at this stage (i.e. from a “friend of a friend”). However, I do believe that the person I heard it from was a reasonably trustworthy source:

-----
According to this person, when the police first arrived at GBC’s house on 20 April at (about) 7:30am, they found NBC in the garage, vacuuming out ABC’s car.
----

Now, that sounds quite incriminating. However, if GBC reported his wife missing that morning, surely the LAST thing he would want is for his Father to be caught vacuuming out his wife’s car when the arrived, right?

Well, another rumour I recall hearing/reading about early on in the investigation is that GBC was not actually the person who called the police that morning. Instead, one of the neighbours did - telling them about the “loud shouting/fighting” they heard from the residence the night before, and that it might be worth checking in to see if everything is okay. Consequently, when the police did arrive that morning, GBC and NBC were caught completely off-guard. When asked if everything is okay, NBC only THEN reports to the police that his wife has been “missing” for several hours.

Hi, thank you! Someone "in the know" indicated (I believe a few days back) that TM has a black BMW and not a blue car. I believe nobody knows yet who owns the alleged blue car spotted with the Prado nor the car that hit the column, nor if they are the same car.
 
It is my experience that in the case of a crime of passion (an act that is unplanned) there is an arrest quite quickly. People who act in the moment are not very careful or planned. They leave spaces that cannot be filled... They panic and become stressed. They forget things.

There has been no arrest as we all know. This leads me to two conclusions one that GBC is not the perp. Two that he is but he has a deficit of his personality that enables him to not panic or become stressed when he has found himself committing a murderous act.

There has been much reference to GBC being a narcissist. I would enlarge upon that to suggest IN THE CASE OF ASSUMING GBC killed his wife in an unplanned manner... he could have done this and coped well afterward and therefore methodically covered his tracks IF he had a personality disorder.

Sociopaths/psychopaths have the curious ability to be quite disassociated from anthers pain. They are incredibly charming, knowledgeable & usually hold positions of authority. They generally are attracted to women (largely sociopaths are men) or male partners that are intelligent, educated, attractive and confident. When the sociopath senses he "has" the woman he then begins to slowly chip away at her confidence - the high powered barrister by day at night the emotionally abused woman - is a scenario that is very real for many women. Sociopaths are often promiscuous by societal standards and affairs are part of the profile of this disorder. Most sociopaths know enough about psychology to talk the talk very well. People are shocked to learn that the sociopath was abusive in any way as he is charming socially.
This profile often has money issues almost always leading a secret life financially that their partners are unaware of. TM is just another fly in GBC's honey. She profiles as all the right traits to attract a sociopath. The police have allowed the TM story to print in an effort to out the other women that GBC has had on the go... TM will have thought she was the only one. That ABC was some horrid woman that just won't leave him alone and it's all a front for the kids etc... IF GBC is a sociopath TM is just another victim who's choice to pair up with this man will haunt her forever no doubt. Sociopaths are magnetic and incredibly difficult to extricate from.

IF GBC is a sociopath (this is all conjecture) then Mrs BC senior is also (my opinion and conjecture)... It is my strong opinion that GBC could in fact have such a personality disorder...

So this leads me to...

An unfortunate homicide and GBC has the ability being a sociopath/psycopath to calmly "clean up the mess"...

Issues that have yet to come out with regard to money/business dealings & ABC unfortunately found out. Perhaps also sexuality. Sociopaths have secret sex lives that only come to light after the fact. MRS BC Senior being of similar psychology to her son fixes it up. A third party is the killer (a hit man) and this means in their minds they are innocent...

I've lived long enough and seen enough to know there is always more to a story. But what doesn't lie is body language. The fact that Mrs BC snr was so flamboyant and socially inappropriate kissing in the garage (I haven't even seen that footage) tells me she has a lack of empathy. It's just not the done thing. Yes she could have been nervous etc etx... it sounds from reports in here that she was very flamboyant and definite in her "kiss"... Also the tilt of the head in interview with GBC before the body was found shows he is asking for sympathy...He isn't looking down the camera and pleading. He is hiding something. Olivia bites her lip. She knows something also - maybe not about what happened to ABC - but she knows that he knows something...
I could go on and I actually wrote a long post that disappeared when the thread was shut down.

I am sorry if I've missed something previous I just haven't time to read all the posts.
 
Thank you for sharing your story. I'm amazed at how many women have shared there story and have had similiar experiences. Strangely I was drawn to this story right from the first day and began reading the thread and everything about the case since it was apparently a simple missing persons case. Something struck a chord to me from the beginning... Almost like i knew what this was from the very begining. As time has gone on I know there is something I am meant to learn or draw from this case but not sure what the actual message is yet.

No matter how this case finally ends Allison has helped others in a way she would have wanted in her life even in her death....

Based on our brief understanding of the Dickies and their faith in God, I believe that they would take comfort in knowing that this otherwise senseless tragedy, has helped others.
 
Yep....Some say she was down for holidays already, some say she came the evening before, some say she found out at 7:30 and made it to Brisbane to bring the kids too school (Yeah Right) and some say she came later on.

Does anyone know when?

We have had a poster state she came down a few days later, and a poster say she took the children to school that day. But - what if she were down here that Friday - on holidays??? Maybe she was?
 
It is my experience that in the case of a crime of passion (an act that is unplanned) there is an arrest quite quickly. People who act in the moment are not very careful or planned. They leave spaces that cannot be filled... They panic and become stressed. They forget things.

There has been no arrest as we all know. This leads me to two conclusions one that GBC is not the perp. Two that he is but he has a deficit of his personality that enables him to not panic or become stressed when he has found himself committing a murderous act.

There has been much reference to GBC being a narcissist. I would enlarge upon that to suggest IN THE CASE OF ASSUMING GBC killed his wife in an unplanned manner... he could have done this and coped well afterward and therefore methodically covered his tracks IF he had a personality disorder.

Sociopaths/psychopaths have the curious ability to be quite disassociated from anthers pain. They are incredibly charming, knowledgeable & usually hold positions of authority. They generally are attracted to women (largely sociopaths are men) or male partners that are intelligent, educated, attractive and confident. When the sociopath senses he "has" the woman he then begins to slowly chip away at her confidence - the high powered barrister by day at night the emotionally abused woman - is a scenario that is very real for many women. Sociopaths are often promiscuous by societal standards and affairs are part of the profile of this disorder. Most sociopaths know enough about psychology to talk the talk very well. People are shocked to learn that the sociopath was abusive in any way as he is charming socially.
This profile often has money issues almost always leading a secret life financially that their partners are unaware of. TM is just another fly in GBC's honey. She profiles as all the right traits to attract a sociopath. The police have allowed the TM story to print in an effort to out the other women that GBC has had on the go... TM will have thought she was the only one. That ABC was some horrid woman that just won't leave him alone and it's all a front for the kids etc... IF GBC is a sociopath TM is just another victim who's choice to pair up with this man will haunt her forever no doubt. Sociopaths are magnetic and incredibly difficult to extricate from.

IF GBC is a sociopath (this is all conjecture) then Mrs BC senior is also (my opinion and conjecture)... It is my strong opinion that GBC could in fact have such a personality disorder...

So this leads me to...

An unfortunate homicide and GBC has the ability being a sociopath/psycopath to calmly "clean up the mess"...

Issues that have yet to come out with regard to money/business dealings & ABC unfortunately found out. Perhaps also sexuality. Sociopaths have secret sex lives that only come to light after the fact. MRS BC Senior being of similar psychology to her son fixes it up. A third party is the killer (a hit man) and this means in their minds they are innocent...

I've lived long enough and seen enough to know there is always more to a story. But what doesn't lie is body language. The fact that Mrs BC snr was so flamboyant and socially inappropriate kissing in the garage (I haven't even seen that footage) tells me she has a lack of empathy. It's just not the done thing. Yes she could have been nervous etc etx... it sounds from reports in here that she was very flamboyant and definite in her "kiss"... Also the tilt of the head in interview with GBC before the body was found shows he is asking for sympathy...He isn't looking down the camera and pleading. He is hiding something. Olivia bites her lip. She knows something also - maybe not about what happened to ABC - but she knows that he knows something...
I could go on and I actually wrote a long post that disappeared when the thread was shut down.

I am sorry if I've missed something previous I just haven't time to read all the posts.

Very interesting - Thank You. However, IMO there was not hit man, but there is a family cover-up.
 
THE MOON IS NOW IN THE SAME ASPECT IT WAS ON THE 19th. Anyone wondering about visibility should have a look at present illumination
 
Based on our brief understanding of the Dickies and their faith in God, I believe that they would take comfort in knowing that this otherwise senseless tragedy, has helped others.

I believe the Dickies have a Masonic connection. I read one of the condolence messages on another site and one of them was signed something like "from your masonic family in the US". IMO.
 
I don't understand the granny pash thing, the reactions to it. Intimacy is not the domain of those under 45 and like it or not, some people still have a "relationship" well into old age, it doesn't just disappear with age.

In front of the camera, while your daughter in law is missing?
 
Thats a big call and opens a whole other can of worms........which brings me back to my own unanswered question about when she came down from Brownsville.

I also want to know when she came to brissie.
 
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