Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #15

[Greg]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...results-released/story-e6freoof-1226372823158

Snipped.

BBM.

I find this very interesting in light of the toxicology results being released. Police have stated that Allison was murdered by someone but they state that they "are yet to announce what killed the mother of three." Was she poisoned?

Speculation on my part.

Thats a possibility that I never considered before tonight, I'd thought drugged and finished off but never poisoned and dumped...thanks Makara

 

[angel1]

Here you go:


http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/courts/coroners-court/findings

Thankyou so much for that i really appreciate it

 

[marlywings]

Love your work, Marlywings, but beg to differ. In the article cited by Berry:

By 7.30am on the Friday, he was on the phone to police to report her disappearance.

Hi Ms Adler, thankyou & welcome....I've been basing my theory around what police have stated...there is a lot of "he said" in reports about contacting police but there is nothing where it states "police said" he contacted them.

I just can't see him phoning police at all.

There's police stating "he's maintained he last saw her watching tv & he went to bed"....

Nothing from police to say "he said she went for a walk". The only people who were told that seems to be the Dickies..."he told us she went for a walk & didn't return".

Also...one of the other main things I was thinking on was Allison going to a conference on the Friday...he thought he would have had pretty much all day to clean-up the house. Others at the conference would have noticed her absence...but what would they do about it??...call GBC??

Whatever happend will all come out in the wash soon enough I think.

....just my opinion.

 

[Greg]

Someone was asking about differences between murder and manslaughter trials and the consequences. A manslaughter charge is usually chosen where there is strong evidence that the accused caused the other person's death but there is not enough admissible evidence to ensure good prospects of success. There are basically two forms of murder recognised in Qld.

The first is where the accused intended to inflcit serious or fatal injuries on some other person, and as a result of that intention somebody in fact died. That's the usual form you see reported, whete the accused set out to attack someone. That's provided for in s302(1)(a) of the Criminal Code.

The other form of murder is where the accused was involved in carrying out some other sort of crime, such as a burglary, rape or armed robbery and while doing that they do something which causes another person's death. They might, for example, be carrying out a servo robbery and fire a warning shot which ricochets off a wall and hits the attendant in the head, killing him. You can find that in s.302(1)(b) of the Criminal Code. Another example could be an assailant who drugs a woman to overcome resistance so that he can rape her, and she dies as a result of the drug (by interacting with a prescription she is taking say). In that latter situation he didn't intend any serious injury but he was committing a crime (rape) did something dangerous and as a result she died.

Lots of different scenarios posters have suggested on the forum could ground any of the above charges.

Sometimes the DPP will negotiate with the defence for a plea of guilty to manslaughter in exchange for not pursuing the murder charge. Even if a murder trial goes ahead the accused can be acquitted of the murder but convicted of manslaughter by the jury, after the judge sums up for them.

Murder is the more serious charge, but manslaughter can actually result in as many years behind bars. The Corrective Services Act says that a prisoner convicted of murder is eligible to apply for parole after serving 15 years of their 'mandatory' life sentence. Many such people do in fact get parole at that time.

There is a maximum (non mandatory) sentence of life imprisonment for manslaughter. But, crucially, it is classified as a Serious Violent Offence in the Penalties and Sentences Act, which means that the prisoner must serve at least 80% of their sentence or 15 years before being eligible to apply for parole (whichever is the shorter). So a 20 year sentence for manslaughter has almost the same effect. The court can also specify a later parole eligibility date.

Sentences for non murder offences that severe are rare, but not unheard of. It's also possible for the court to impose an indefinite sentence in which the offender has no parole eligibility date, but is assessed by a tribunal as to the risk they pose to the community at various stages. We have a few such prisoners in Qld. They are usually violent, serial rapists.

Many manslaughter convictions grounded in DV contexts seem to attract a maximum of about 10 years. If that were the sentence, the offender would be eligible to apply for parole after 8 years, with the serious violent offender declaration. It would be tempting to think that where a person is also convicted of additional offences arising from the same events, such as interfering with a corpse etc, that a conviction for those offences would increase the overall sentence. But virtually all prosecutions which result in convictions for multiple offences lead to sentences which are served concurrently, meaning that the offender serves the time for the most serious offence and is deemed to be also serving the other sentences at the same time.

Hawkins I think the police are being so thorough so that they can secure the more severe murder conviction with equally severe accessory charges....

Just my opinion.

 

[tessawa]

Sort of like The Last Supper?

A Last Supper, hey? I wonder who'd be there with him. Maybe Tone might drop by for a bite and something to wash it all down with- probably a couple bottles of plonk, I'd say- so I don't know if maccas would be a good choice of venue in that regard. Maybe somewhere more desolate and seedy, as appropriate.

 

[angel1]

Also in the latest cm article i don't get the part where it says

Police initially appealed for information from anyone who saw either of the family cars - a silver Holden Captiva or a white Toyota Prado - on the night Mrs Baden-Clay disappeared.

Then the next appeal was



They later made repeated pleas for anyone who had driven through the Kenmore roundabout on April 19 between 11.30pm and 4am the following day to contact them.

 

[kiwi50]

Hi Ms Adler, thankyou & welcome....I've been basing my theory around what police have stated...there is a lot of "he said" in reports about contacting police but there is nothing where it states "police said" he contacted them.

I just can't see him phoning police at all.

There's police stating "he's maintained he last saw her watching tv & he went to bed"....

Nothing from police to say "he said she went for a walk". The only people who were told that seems to be the Dickies..."he told us she went for a walk & didn't return".

Also...one of the other main things I was thinking on was Allison going to a conference on the Friday...he thought he would have had pretty much all day to clean-up the house. Others at the conference would have noticed her absence...but what would they do about it??...call GBC??

Whatever happend will all come out in the wash soon enough I think.

....just my opinion.

I'm in agreement still think someone else phoned police, I think it's very possible everyone just assumes GBC rang the police, maybe even the reporters.
When people start quoting from links often they are only quoting the reporters words, who in turn are reporting what they think the police said.

 

[mouse detective]

Also in the latest cm article i don't get the part where it says

Police initially appealed for information from anyone who saw either of the family cars - a silver Holden Captiva or a white Toyota Prado - on the night Mrs Baden-Clay disappeared.

Then the next appeal was

They later made repeated pleas for anyone who had driven through the Kenmore roundabout on April 19 between 11.30pm and 4am the following day to contact them.

Interesting pick up Angel1 - just been thinking about this. I wonder if they know for certain that someone known to the family was driving through that roundabout at that hour and wondering why they are not coming forward to talk to them!!

 

[Berry]

Our thoughts and prayers are with The Dickie family tonight. *advertiser censored*

It might be another piece of the puzzle but its a very hard one for them to deal with.

Thanks Bay, if and when Mr and Mrs Dickie hear it will be so painful for them, my utmost sorrow for them. xxxx God bless the them and the QPS

 

[linette]

Thanks Bay, if and when Mr and Mrs Dickie hear it will be so painful for them, my utmost sorrow for them. xxxx God bless the them and the QPS

But we know they'll be strong because it's one step closer to what we are all hoping for... JUSTICE !!

 

[marlywings]

I'm in agreement still think someone else phoned police, I think it's very possible everyone just assumes GBC rang the police, maybe even the reporters.
When people start quoting from links often they are only quoting the reporters words, who in turn are reporting what they think the police said.

EXACTLY kiwi!!!....soo many of the reports are clearly just the journo's words...some are a little more flowery than others. All of the "he said"...he hasn't said anything to any of journos apart from the "little bit hurt" nonsense.

When you put the "police said" quotes together it gives a whole different story....the accurate story!!

 

[kiwi50]

I know this is off topic but it's really made me think of how precious life is and how unfair it can be also.
I can't get it out of my head today, how sad it is that Allison's 3 daughters have lost their mum and then here in NZ we have the kiwi mum who lost her triplets in the fire in Dohar today. Just the irony of it all. Tell someone you love them today, tomorrow may be too late.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/7005233/Kiwi-triplets-killed-in-Doha-mall-fire

 

[linette]

Why are you so offended by people choosing to interpret the evidence in their own way. To me, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ............

I don't think he/she is here to interpet the evidence, nor to discuss the case in a benificial way. Some people have their own agendas.

 

[Berry]

It's understood the information will help secure an arrest.
BBM

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...results-released/story-e6freoof-1226372823158

Am I assuming too much or is that phrase telling us something?

Mmmmmmm this also says in the very same article that:

"Police won't reveal what information they've gleaned so far from the post mortem on Mrs Baden-Clay's body and say they won't be releasing the toxicology findings which were returned yesterday."

Yesterday? They must be working fast now.......

 

[linette]

I know this is off topic but it's really made me think of how precious life is and how unfair it can be also.
I can't get it out of my head today, how sad it is that Allison's 3 daughters have lost their mum and then here in NZ we have the kiwi mum who lost her triplets in the fire in Dohar today. Just the irony of it all. Tell someone you love them today, tomorrow may be too late.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/7005233/Kiwi-triplets-killed-in-Doha-mall-fire

That's right. You never really do think it would ever happen to your own family, hey? As we know now, it can and does.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Think it might be appreciated if you post this as being IMO, rather than statement of fact. I for one am appreciative of the hard work our QPS does under the most difficult situations at times. I think if you are implying some corruption in the QPS in general and in the outcome of this case, I definitely think it should be an IMO post. And also think it might be a bit offensive to all the decent, honest, hardworking Police in this state. MOO

(worth noting the anniversary of the death of QPS senior Const. Damien Leeding today.. I know not entirely on topic, but felt it worth mentioning in light of this post)

As I could not edit now(too long from when I posted), but wanted to corrrect my post..I am reposting with the correct info regarding Senior Constable Damien Leeding. Anniversary of his shooting is today, his subsequent death was a few days later. the anniversary of which is this Friday

 

[pugsandfrogs]

There is a bit of a phenomon whereby people who know they are about to be locked up for a long time head out to Maccas for a binge feed the night, or day, before. Just sayin'.

Ok, will it be a "Sydney" or a "Paris"

 

[bellgirl]

I'm in agreement still think someone else phoned police, I think it's very possible everyone just assumes GBC rang the police, maybe even the reporters.
When people start quoting from links often they are only quoting the reporters words, who in turn are reporting what they think the police said.

Thanks kiwi50 ....... I'm starting to see what you and Marlywings are seeing - it kinda makes sense that someone else called the Police - not GBC. We have all questioned (throughout numerous threads at the beg of this forum) why he would ring them at 7:30am, when Allison was only 30 mins late from her walk?! Why would he do that?! AND ......... wouldn't he prefer to have the day to properly clean up and organise stories?

 

[Berry]

Quoting from the Courier Mail article, "Police won't reveal what information they've gleaned so far from the post-mortem on Mrs Baden-Clay's body and say they won't be releasing any findings".

Does this mean that they won't be announcing COD at all? :waitasec:

Not in the Detectives lexicon Marple..........why should they, keep them in the dark and feed them BS............ie perp/s IMO.

Albeit, they will, perhaps have new info to run down and secure the new leads shown in this recent return of Post Mortem findings....just throwing it out there IMO

 

[marlywings]

Also in the latest cm article i don't get the part where it says

Police initially appealed for information from anyone who saw either of the family cars - a silver Holden Captiva or a white Toyota Prado - on the night Mrs Baden-Clay disappeared.

Then the next appeal was



They later made repeated pleas for anyone who had driven through the Kenmore roundabout on April 19 between 11.30pm and 4am the following day to contact them.

I think it was pretty obvious from the start police were zeroing in on the two Baden Clay cars. In this video from the day Allison's body was found Inspector Ainsworth said...

"We've done several media releases & we've had several pieces of information come forward with respect to the movement of both vehicles".

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-MsU_So4M0"]ALLISON BADEN-CLAY UPDATE 010512 - YouTube[/ame]