Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#16

[LauraMars]

Yes the rain...a couple of times on here I've called it the blessed rain...the canoeist wouldn't have been in that creek otherwise & her body may never have been found...the rain brought Allison back to her parents.

I think if two people were involved in dumping Allison's body it would have made it easier to throw it over the side. Only going by photos of the bridge... the rails don't seem all that high ...another member mentioned the body could have been thrown between the rails. but there doesn't appear to be quite enough of a gap between the rails to do this.

In the report I posted before re the questioning of someone..."whether she had recently pulled her car over to the side of Mt Crosby Rd."....it doesn't mention the bridge...just Mt Crosby Rd. They could have gone off road anywhere near where there's access to area around scout camp....in my opinion.

It was blessed rain indeed! Haha, massive downpour just started here as I type this

When Allison was first reported missing, I was scouring maps of the area, as I have a slight obsession with maps. I've never been out that way, despite living in Brissy for many years, but it became obvious that there were sooo many places around that area she could have been taken and hidden. So many waterways and a great deal of bushland.

She could have so easily never been found, which would have been much worse for her loved ones. As dreadful as the discovery of her body would have been for her parents and friends, I guess they knew she was gone

IMO

 

[Wozzle]

I have often wondered if the reticence on the part of the police/media in releasing info was deliberate in an attempt not to put pressure on GBC because he is caring for the girls (and what might occur should he 'snap' again....if indeed this is what happened). Consequently when someone mentioned overnight that he had more or less 'barricaded' he and the girls at the Brookfield house and that friends of Allison were concerned and considering social welfare intervention, my blood ran cold. And I had the most dreadful sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I recall GBC seemingly shielding himself with his daughters at the funeral...and wonder if he is continuing to do so. I know they're attending school, but are they still participating in their extracurricular activities (dancing etc.) and spending time with their friends? Those poor little sweethearts; we can only hope that they ARE being closely monitored.

I am in floods of tears as I've just got off the phone to the vet and on my way to work I'm taking our old dog to be euthanased. He has been the ugliest (VERY overweight since the age of 2!),greediest, bossiest, laziest, noisiest, most selfish old mongrel of any dog I've ever owned (but very smart).....and it just won't be the same without him around. But I've been 'letting go' all week as he hasn't eaten or barked for days and is having trouble swallowing. The time has come. Which makes me think of GBC. Had he already 'let go'? Even if he WASN'T involved in Allison's death (unlikely IMO) how how how can he be so emotionless? Yes, I know we don't know what emotions he might be consumed with behind closed doors....but that funeral....with those dear little girls....and in front of the media. He quite simply isn't....well....'normal', and those speculations re personality disorders are probably right on the money. Do you recall someone mentioning something along the lines of this case will stretch all the way back to deep dark Africa? I was imagining in his defence a 'cultural angle' might be attempted, eg. killing and death is viewed and felt differently by Africans, hence we might see an entirely different attitude and response to what we might expect. I dunno. I'm just preoccupied with 'death' at the moment....as are we all, unfortunately.

May I say while here, what a fabulous, funny, intelligent, compassionate and thoroughly decent lot you all are! I've never been interested in 'crime' and would have suspected that those on fora such as these MUST be 'ghouls'.....however not so! And if course I am here too!! Allison's legacy will reach far and wide, and her influence on those in difficult domestic situations is already being felt.

On a lighter note, and in keeping with the 'doggy' theme....little 'Scrap' has already had her (?) 15 minutes of fame. I can't remember where I saw it (and I do hope I didn't dream it, so consuming has this business been night AND day) but I recall seeing a photo of Scrap.....she is a smallish, whitey, browney, hairy girl - some sort of terrier, and the photographer had taken her pic at 'her' level ie got down on his haunches. She DID look rather chuffed at being in the spotlight! (PLEASE tell me I didn't dream this!!!)

I'm off to work (via the Vet) all red eyed, swollen and blotchy (shame we didn't see any BCs in this state). RIP Allison (and RIP Fat Leo - gonna miss you old flea bag that you are:seeya.

PS. All speculations IMOO:moo:
PPS. Re the NASA lady....we, in the business, call them 'incontinence aides' (not diapers or nappies....one must be 'politically correct' when referring to people who have trouble with their waterworks!!! Eg. Come along Mr Greg, let me help you with your incontinence aide - we don't want any more of those wet beds, now do we?!)

 

[Fuskier]

there is so much thought in this article and it is very well written= thank you Fusker.

Just replying to one small part of it though, what type of family "welcomes" the mistress, when there son is still married and supposedly living with his wife. Surely any decent parent would sit there adult child down and have a conversation about what is going on. Similarly if I was the mistress I wouldn't want to be at family events and as for building a relationship with the young girls, if my husband did this it might happen once but I would never let it happen again.

In my mind there is a difference in being the mistress as opposed to the prospective alternative wife. As the BC's were still living together and putting on a family persona, then I don't see TM fitting with that image.

My ideas are probably old fashioned, but is their no moral code here. Olivia Walton is married to a minister, surely that counts for something.

SPRATSMUM: Really good post which has expanded one of the ideas within. Exactly, what kind of family would welcome the 'mistress' when their son is still married with 3 little children?
Exactly. What was the motive for maintaining the public image of 'still being married' when allegedly it was clearly over? Would a financial motive fit in here?

 

[marlywings]

Yes, there have been no arrests, but TM has apparently fully cooperated with QPS and she may have had some knowledge of what may have been planed (something like, oh, yes, he was always joking about getting rid of his wife, etc. IMO).

However, I personally don't believe this was premeditated.

I don't think it was premeditated either...a domestic in which he killed her...if he'd reported it or called ambulance he would have been up for manslaughter.

So he's gone to extremes of covering it all up & now his only chance of staying out of jail is up to his lawyers with police having to prove he killed Allison. ...in my opinion.

 

[CaseClosed]

I looked at the photos of Allison's body quite closely and IMO she is UNDERNEATH the bridge structures, hence could not have landed there if she was thrown/rolled off the bridge. She may have been thrown and then dragged under the bridge to where she was found. I think she was placed there and not washed down. If the perp(s) had a good knowledge of the area, they may have expected no rain at all this time of the year, therefore no canoeing activity for a while. Also, it doesn't seem to be an area where you would go bushwalking, hence little chance of her being found by people.

Also, rigor mortis only lasts a few days, then the body is in a flexible state again. To me it appears that she was lying on her back, with one arm extended to the side and over her shoulder. I could not see bent kees. Just my opinion.

 

[louisepiglet]

Are GBC and the girls still residing with his parents?
Perhaps he has been told to remain there by police/docs until investigation is resolved. This would be to ensure the girls safety if he is considered a POI.
This is only a theory and my opinion.

 

[spratsmum]

I have often wondered if the reticence on the part of the police/media in releasing info was deliberate in an attempt not to put pressure on GBC because he is caring for the girls (and what might occur should he 'snap' again....if indeed this is what happened). Consequently when someone mentioned overnight that he had more or less 'barricaded' he and the girls at the Brookfield house and that friends of Allison were concerned and considering social welfare intervention, my blood ran cold. And I had the most dreadful sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I recall GBC seemingly shielding himself with his daughters at the funeral...and wonder if he is continuing to do so. I know they're attending school, but are they still participating in their extracurricular activities (dancing etc.) and spending time with their friends? Those poor little sweethearts; we can only hope that they ARE being closely monitored.

I am in floods of tears as I've just got off the phone to the vet and on my way to work I'm taking our old dog to be euthanased. He has been the ugliest (VERY overweight since the age of 2!),greediest, bossiest, laziest, noisiest, most selfish old mongrel of any dog I've ever owned (but very smart).....and it just won't be the same without him around. But I've been 'letting go' all week as he hasn't eaten or barked for days and is having trouble swallowing. The time has come. Which makes me think of GBC. Had he already 'let go'? Even if he WASN'T involved in Allison's death (unlikely IMO) how how how can he be so emotionless? Yes, I know we don't know what emotions he might be consumed with behind closed doors....but that funeral....with those dear little girls....and in front of the media. He quite simply isn't....well....'normal', and those speculations re personality disorders are probably right on the money. Do you recall someone mentioning something along the lines of this case will stretch all the way back to deep dark Africa? I was imagining in his defence a 'cultural angle' might be attempted, eg. killing and death is viewed and felt differently by Africans, hence we might see an entirely different attitude and response to what we might expect. I dunno. I'm just preoccupied with 'death' at the moment....as are we all, unfortunately.

May I say while here, what a fabulous, funny, intelligent, compassionate and thoroughly decent lot you all are! I've never been interested in 'crime' and would have suspected that those on fora such as these MUST be 'ghouls'.....however not so! And if course I am here too!! Allison's legacy will reach far and wide, and her influence on those in difficult domestic situations is already being felt.

On a lighter note, and in keeping with the 'doggy' theme....little 'Scrap' has already had her (?) 15 minutes of fame. I can't remember where I saw it (and I do hope I didn't dream it, so consuming has this business been night AND day) but I recall seeing a photo of Scrap.....she is a smallish, whitey, browney, hairy girl - some sort of terrier, and the photographer had taken her pic at 'her' level ie got down on his haunches. She DID look rather chuffed at being in the spotlight! (PLEASE tell me I didn't dream this!!!)

I'm off to work (via the Vet) all red eyed, swollen and blotchy (shame we didn't see any BCs in this state). RIP Allison (and RIP Fat Leo - gonna miss you old flea bag that you are:seeya.

PS. All speculations IMOO:moo:
PPS. Re the NASA lady....we, in the business, call them 'incontinence aides' (not diapers or nappies....one must be 'politically correct' when referring to people who have trouble with their waterworks!!! Eg. Come along Mr Greg, let me help you with your incontinence aide - we don't want any more of those wet beds, now do we?!)

sorry about your puppy, be gentle to yourself in the next few days!!

 

[CaseClosed]

I have often wondered if the reticence on the part of the police/media in releasing info was deliberate in an attempt not to put pressure on GBC because he is caring for the girls (and what might occur should he 'snap' again....if indeed this is what happened). Consequently when someone mentioned overnight that he had more or less 'barricaded' he and the girls at the Brookfield house and that friends of Allison were concerned and considering social welfare intervention, my blood ran cold. And I had the most dreadful sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I recall GBC seemingly shielding himself with his daughters at the funeral...and wonder if he is continuing to do so. I know they're attending school, but are they still participating in their extracurricular activities (dancing etc.) and spending time with their friends? Those poor little sweethearts; we can only hope that they ARE being closely monitored.

I am in floods of tears as I've just got off the phone to the vet and on my way to work I'm taking our old dog to be euthanased. He has been the ugliest (VERY overweight since the age of 2!),greediest, bossiest, laziest, noisiest, most selfish old mongrel of any dog I've ever owned (but very smart).....and it just won't be the same without him around. But I've been 'letting go' all week as he hasn't eaten or barked for days and is having trouble swallowing. The time has come. Which makes me think of GBC. Had he already 'let go'? Even if he WASN'T involved in Allison's death (unlikely IMO) how how how can he be so emotionless? Yes, I know we don't know what emotions he might be consumed with behind closed doors....but that funeral....with those dear little girls....and in front of the media. He quite simply isn't....well....'normal', and those speculations re personality disorders are probably right on the money. Do you recall someone mentioning something along the lines of this case will stretch all the way back to deep dark Africa? I was imagining in his defence a 'cultural angle' might be attempted, eg. killing and death is viewed and felt differently by Africans, hence we might see an entirely different attitude and response to what we might expect. I dunno. I'm just preoccupied with 'death' at the moment....as are we all, unfortunately.

May I say while here, what a fabulous, funny, intelligent, compassionate and thoroughly decent lot you all are! I've never been interested in 'crime' and would have suspected that those on fora such as these MUST be 'ghouls'.....however not so! And if course I am here too!! Allison's legacy will reach far and wide, and her influence on those in difficult domestic situations is already being felt.

On a lighter note, and in keeping with the 'doggy' theme....little 'Scrap' has already had her (?) 15 minutes of fame. I can't remember where I saw it (and I do hope I didn't dream it, so consuming has this business been night AND day) but I recall seeing a photo of Scrap.....she is a smallish, whitey, browney, hairy girl - some sort of terrier, and the photographer had taken her pic at 'her' level ie got down on his haunches. She DID look rather chuffed at being in the spotlight! (PLEASE tell me I didn't dream this!!!)

I'm off to work (via the Vet) all red eyed, swollen and blotchy (shame we didn't see any BCs in this state). RIP Allison (and RIP Fat Leo - gonna miss you old flea bag that you are:seeya.

PS. All speculations IMOO:moo:
PPS. Re the NASA lady....we, in the business, call them 'incontinence aides' (not diapers or nappies....one must be 'politically correct' when referring to people who have trouble with their waterworks!!! Eg. Come along Mr Greg, let me help you with your incontinence aide - we don't want any more of those wet beds, now do we?!)

Ohhh, so sorry about your doggy!

 

[spratsmum]

Are GBC and the girls still residing with his parents?
Perhaps he has been told to remain there by police/docs until investigation is resolved. This would be to ensure the girls safety if he is considered a POI.
This is only a theory and my opinion.

I don't think we are certain Louisepiglet.

I don't think though that the police could tell you where to reside unless you were under some sort of court order e.g. parole. Thankfully we live in a country were our freedoms are guarded by government and legislation

 

[LollyPop]

I read early on in these threads that ABC spoke 6 languages. It was supported by a media link but I can't link from my handheld sorry! Anyway - that is incredibly unique and unusual to me, I don't know anyone who has 6 languages in their kit bag. This is going to sound very implausible but what if ABC had some involvement in espoinage???

Also keen to hear thoughts on my salon theory from late in the last thread???

Not trying to stir up trouble here - I recognise why the main thoery is the focus. But genuinely trying to unearth another angle - the longer this goes on without arrest the more I think the answer is going to be very unexpected / left field.

Hey, re the salon theory, its out there that's for sure. And if she did become ill then die, are you suggesting the hairdresser went over there and then disposed of her body? Love the way your brain is working but somehow I don't think so IMO

The languages angle is also interesting....have visions of Jamie Lee Curtis in True Lies? running through my head :dunno:

 

[louisepiglet]

Are GBC and the girls still residing with his parents?
Perhaps he has been told to remain there by police/docs until investigation is resolved. This would be to ensure the girls safety if he is considered a POI.
This is only a theory and my opinion.

Sorry, I must have missed where GBC and the girls have returned to their home.

Also, Wozzle, I am so sorry about your dog.

 

[Fuskier]

I still can't get over the premeditation of the murder.
...If GBC is the culprit I don't think we can question his intellect - at the moment he seems to have outsmarted the police even after Allison's body was found.

SPRATSMUM: with respect I disagree that an alleged POI has 'outsmarted' the Police. He has engaged a Solicitor and a Criminal Barrister. In addition, the Police have alluded to others suspected of some involvement in the case. It is a complex case which the Police must take the time necessary to conduct their investigation, cross-check their evidence, rule evidence in/out, consult the DPP etc. This takes time. In the interest of Allison's murderer and accomplice(s) being caught, the Police may take all the time they need to secure the conviction in a Criminal Court. My opinion, not fact.

 

[spratsmum]

Hey, re the salon theory, its out there that's for sure. And if she did become ill then die, are you suggesting the hairdresser went over there and then disposed of her body? Love the way your brain is working but somehow I don't think so IMO

The languages angle is also interesting....have visions of Jamie Lee Curtis in True Lies? running through my head :dunno:

the 6 languages is unique I agree, but I think, probably like many of us, there may be a little license used in the description. No disrespect intended. You know the conversation: " how many languages can you speck Allison"? "I lived in Denmark for 12 months, so some Danish, a bit of German, and a bit of Austrian/German it is different you know" quite flippant really. I am sure she was probably quite fluent in the major languages, she must have had a flair for them. the espionage though, a bit far fetched - if that was the case think she would have spent quite a bit of time out of the country. Certainly quite a different theory and very out of the square

 

[CaseClosed]

Hey, re the salon theory, its out there that's for sure. And if she did become ill then die, are you suggesting the hairdresser went over there and then disposed of her body? Love the way your brain is working but somehow I don't think so IMO

The languages angle is also interesting....have visions of Jamie Lee Curtis in True Lies? running through my head :dunno:

The languages theory: Many people speak several languages (I speak 3 very well and have some understanding of 2 others ... and I'm not a spy! ) and Allison had worked overseas where she would have learned at least some of the language of the locality, in addition to what she may have learned in school. I think when someone says such and such speak 6 languages, it doesn't necessarily mean they have full command of the 6 languages. They may have had some knowledge, enough to get by.

 

[itsthevibe]

Oh my! Confronting. Not having a go.
I was thinking of knee bent scenarios also. 1 being that your knees would be bent up if someone was on top with hands around neck if victim lying down.
But boot is the obvious one.

Do you think TM would go to such extremes, she would have to be one desperate lady to go to that extreme. What would he have that would make a woman do that to another woman/mother?
Thanks Gran

Not sure about the TM kidnapping idea - I mean how would that be done? I just think it would be unusual for most women to go to that extent, although not impossible. And then the vehicle sightings being 4 wheel drives - they don't have sedan style boots/trunks. Ánd aren't the bent knees something that happens during rigor mortis?

 

[spratsmum]

SPRATSMUM: with respect I disagree that an alleged POI has 'outsmarted' the Police. He has engaged a Solicitor and a Criminal Barrister. In addition, the Police have alluded to others suspected of some involvement in the case. It is a complex case which the Police must take the time necessary to conduct their investigation, cross-check their evidence, rule evideince in/out, consult the DPP etc. This takes time. In the interest of Allison's murderer and accomplice(s) being caught, then let the Police take all the time they need to secure the conviction in a Criminal Court. My opinion, not fact.

that is why I added Fuskier the words "at present". I have nothing but admiration for the QPS and in no way question there ability or throughness in this or other crimes. Sometimes though criminals are smart and on the face of what we know, and I emphasis, what we know, there seems overwhelming evidence or perhaps suspicion is a better word. Perhaps I have watched too many crime shows, but it seems from afar that GBC and his family, have been able o keep there cool and not give too much away to the police. I would imagine that is a difficult thing to do in the circumstances. Once again, I do not question our police (only if they pulled me up for speeding) but it would seem that at present, they are being outwitted.

 

[CaseClosed]

that is why I added Fuskier the words "at present". I have nothing but admiration for the QPS and in no way question there ability or throughness in this or other crimes. Sometimes though criminals are smart and on the face of what we know, and I emphasis, what we know, there seems overwhelming evidence or perhaps suspicion is a better word. Perhaps I have watched too many crime shows, but it seems from afar that GBC and his family, have been able o keep there cool and not give too much away to the police. I would imagine that is a difficult thing to do in the circumstances. Once again, I do not question our police (only if they pulled me up for speeding) but it would seem that at present, they are being outwitted.

I appears to me that the BCs are indeed a very close knit bunch, who so far have been able to avoid interrogation in an extensive manner. They know that it is in their best interest to stay quiet and avoid the press where possible. Am sure that (unless they think they are above the Law, which could be!) they are scared to death and the uncertainty must be eating them inside. If any of them is the perp(s), they are leaning on the others for strength. In my opinion.

 

[spratsmum]

I appears to me that the BCs are indeed a very close knit bunch, who so far have been able to avoid interrogation in an extensive manner. They know that it is in their best interest to stay quiet and avoid the press where possible. Am sure that (unless they think they are above the Law, which could be!) they are scared to death and the uncertainty must be eating them inside. If any of them is the perp(s), they are leaning on the others for strength. In my opinion.

I agree Caseclosed.

I think the police would be trying to work out the "weakest Link", who in my opinion is probably GBC, and then to work on some slip up. The senior Baden clays seem to be very strong, I think they would be hard to crack. Olivia is away from the family, so she doesn't have the suppost, but she was trained in the Defence Force, so will have done at least very basic training in interview and intergation techniques. GBC though has the emotional attachment, to both ABC and the girls and to the "dream". He would be the one I would try to "crack" first. Any opinions?

 

[Thinking]

Thanks for that link too Keentoknow...it's interesting isn't it?

Coincidence much that he fell over at this time? When you think about how often an able bodied person has a fall...All a bit suss to me.

IMO

It may well be true - would be pretty easy to fall out in the bush at Anstead in the middle of the night

 

[itsthevibe]

Unsure if this is accurate but I thought I read somewhere that the girls were in the care of GBC??

If this is indeed the case imo I believe the QPS would not consider GBC to be the perpetrator...as in a tragedy such as this DOCS would have become involved and they would have to have complete assurance that these little girls were in a *no risk* environment...

imo envisage at a later date if it was found he was the perpetrator...there would be a public outcry that the girls were allowed to be left in his care instead of possibly the Dickies...eg because of what *could* have occurred in such a situation...

One would like to think this would be the case, but the reality is he is innocent from a legal point of view and if there is no evidence or record of him physically harming the children I dont think they can just remove the children.

Also, for all we know, weekly visits from DOCS or another agency could have been ordered, simply because the girls have been through the trauma of knowing their mother has been murdered. If something like this has occurred, it would be confidential.