Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#16

[pugsandfrogs]

there was a fair bit of discussion last night regarding the degree. Someone posted this theory which I think is very creditable:

I think GBC was probably awarded a Bachelor of Business in 1990. An accountant is a bit of a generic term to most of the population, but it means different things within the professional accounting sphere. To become a Chartered Account you need to complete a Professional Year (known as PY) which is a number of subjects accounting related, that are offered in a course run by the Chartered Accountant Institute. The course is much longer than year and involve lectures and exams. I think you can fail each exam only once and if you don't pass you cannot continue. Most of the big firms, KPMG would be included in that, run course and seminars to assist there graduates to pass PY. Usually on the successful completion of the subject the costs are reimbursed, by the firm, to the student. Many firms have an expectation with graduates that the PY will be undertaken and completed, it is a condition of employment. Bearing this in mind, if GBC could not complete the PY requirement KPMG may well have shown him the door.

There are also certified accountants, but I don't know very much about their process.

Certified Practicing Accountants or CPA's are the largest Accounting Body in Australia. Graduates undergo a PY programme in much the same way as the Chartered Accountants do. Both are rigorous in nature and quite unforgiving. I have checked and GBC does not hold the office of ICA or CPA or IPA which is the Institute of Professional Accountants. Having a degree would have allowed him to continue at KPMG but he would not have been elevated to the position of Team Manager without the post graduate qualifications and so would have had little client contact and would have been a basic bookkeeper.

You are correct in that many of the Universities in Australia offer quite generic Business Degrees but you can only call yourself an Accountant if you are a full member of one of the above institutes and continue with their ongoing professional development programmes. You can only be a "student" member of ICA,CPA & IPA (even if you hold a degree), until such time as you have completed all the requirements of membership which include the post graduate study.

I hope this helps.

 

[spratsmum]

The other way to get to GBC might be to introduce another woman into his life and someone who he has tried to conquer but has alluded him - the "unattainable." I think GBC would be taken in hook, line and sinker so to speak, his ego massaged and more over inflated. Hell has no fury, like a woman scorned.

 

[pugsandfrogs]

I have often wondered if the reticence on the part of the police/media in releasing info was deliberate in an attempt not to put pressure on GBC because he is caring for the girls (and what might occur should he 'snap' again....if indeed this is what happened). Consequently when someone mentioned overnight that he had more or less 'barricaded' he and the girls at the Brookfield house and that friends of Allison were concerned and considering social welfare intervention, my blood ran cold. And I had the most dreadful sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I recall GBC seemingly shielding himself with his daughters at the funeral...and wonder if he is continuing to do so. I know they're attending school, but are they still participating in their extracurricular activities (dancing etc.) and spending time with their friends? Those poor little sweethearts; we can only hope that they ARE being closely monitored.

I am in floods of tears as I've just got off the phone to the vet and on my way to work I'm taking our old dog to be euthanased. He has been the ugliest (VERY overweight since the age of 2!),greediest, bossiest, laziest, noisiest, most selfish old mongrel of any dog I've ever owned (but very smart).....and it just won't be the same without him around. But I've been 'letting go' all week as he hasn't eaten or barked for days and is having trouble swallowing. The time has come. Which makes me think of GBC. Had he already 'let go'? Even if he WASN'T involved in Allison's death (unlikely IMO) how how how can he be so emotionless? Yes, I know we don't know what emotions he might be consumed with behind closed doors....but that funeral....with those dear little girls....and in front of the media. He quite simply isn't....well....'normal', and those speculations re personality disorders are probably right on the money. Do you recall someone mentioning something along the lines of this case will stretch all the way back to deep dark Africa? I was imagining in his defence a 'cultural angle' might be attempted, eg. killing and death is viewed and felt differently by Africans, hence we might see an entirely different attitude and response to what we might expect. I dunno. I'm just preoccupied with 'death' at the moment....as are we all, unfortunately.

May I say while here, what a fabulous, funny, intelligent, compassionate and thoroughly decent lot you all are! I've never been interested in 'crime' and would have suspected that those on fora such as these MUST be 'ghouls'.....however not so! And if course I am here too!! Allison's legacy will reach far and wide, and her influence on those in difficult domestic situations is already being felt.

On a lighter note, and in keeping with the 'doggy' theme....little 'Scrap' has already had her (?) 15 minutes of fame. I can't remember where I saw it (and I do hope I didn't dream it, so consuming has this business been night AND day) but I recall seeing a photo of Scrap.....she is a smallish, whitey, browney, hairy girl - some sort of terrier, and the photographer had taken her pic at 'her' level ie got down on his haunches. She DID look rather chuffed at being in the spotlight! (PLEASE tell me I didn't dream this!!!)

I'm off to work (via the Vet) all red eyed, swollen and blotchy (shame we didn't see any BCs in this state). RIP Allison (and RIP Fat Leo - gonna miss you old flea bag that you are:seeya.

PS. All speculations IMOO:moo:
PPS. Re the NASA lady....we, in the business, call them 'incontinence aides' (not diapers or nappies....one must be 'politically correct' when referring to people who have trouble with their waterworks!!! Eg. Come along Mr Greg, let me help you with your incontinence aide - we don't want any more of those wet beds, now do we?!)

Thoughts are with you Wozzle.

 

[louisepiglet]

I agree Caseclosed.

I think the police would be trying to work out the "weakest Link", who in my opinion is probably GBC, and then to work on some slip up. The senior Baden clays seem to be very strong, I think they would be hard to crack. Olivia is away from the family, so she doesn't have the suppost, but she was trained in the Defence Force, so will have done at least very basic training in interview and intergation techniques. GBC though has the emotional attachment, to both ABC and the girls and to the "dream". He would be the one I would try to "crack" first. Any opinions?

I agree Spratsmum. GBC would be the weakest link in that family. Unfortunately, he has his lawyer, barrister and family protecting him.
IMO if he was innocent he would be desperate to make a statement to the police. It may be that others think he is too weak and would crack under interrogation so they are encouraging him not to speak to the police. IMO

 

[Humdinger]

Two things I want to comment on.

The 6 languages, wasn't she in charge of HR for Flight Centre International? Therefore this would not be abnormal for someone in such a position to know 6 languages. IMO

And the children, QPS probably have their hands tied here, unless they can prove that the children are at risk of harm then they couldn't remove them. Even children that have been abused or harmed don't always get removed from homes, sadly if they can't prove him guilty and arrest him, then I doubt that they can prove that the children are in danger. IMO of course.

 

[louisepiglet]

Just a thought. Perhaps Olivia would be the one to lean on. If her husband, the minister, was aware of GBCs guilt ( if he is guilty) he would not be happy that a person who has committed the ultimate sin was being protected.
I would imagine that Olivia would be torn on who she should support.
This is only my opinion. What do others think?

 

[mouse detective]

GRANNY: Thats another possibility about the bent knees. There was a post in thread 13 with a link about what happen to a human body when placed in water, how it bloats with gases in 3-7 days, floats with head down, knees bent etc. That could be an alternative possibility, that when the water under the bridge receded, she was left on the bank in the position the water left her.

If her body was placed into the passenger seat of the car soon after death, the rigour mortis would set in that bent knee position. Perhaps the original plan was to drive the car off the road and make it look like GBC had escaped from a crash but Allison had been killed. After driving to the bridge it became obvious that this plan would be impossible to execute and so another way of disposing of Allison's body had to be found. Just a thought.

 

[LauraMars]

I have often wondered if the reticence on the part of the police/media in releasing info was deliberate in an attempt not to put pressure on GBC because he is caring for the girls (and what might occur should he 'snap' again....if indeed this is what happened). Consequently when someone mentioned overnight that he had more or less 'barricaded' he and the girls at the Brookfield house and that friends of Allison were concerned and considering social welfare intervention, my blood ran cold. And I had the most dreadful sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I recall GBC seemingly shielding himself with his daughters at the funeral...and wonder if he is continuing to do so. I know they're attending school, but are they still participating in their extracurricular activities (dancing etc.) and spending time with their friends? Those poor little sweethearts; we can only hope that they ARE being closely monitored.

I am in floods of tears as I've just got off the phone to the vet and on my way to work I'm taking our old dog to be euthanased. He has been the ugliest (VERY overweight since the age of 2!),greediest, bossiest, laziest, noisiest, most selfish old mongrel of any dog I've ever owned (but very smart).....and it just won't be the same without him around. But I've been 'letting go' all week as he hasn't eaten or barked for days and is having trouble swallowing. The time has come. Which makes me think of GBC. Had he already 'let go'? Even if he WASN'T involved in Allison's death (unlikely IMO) how how how can he be so emotionless? Yes, I know we don't know what emotions he might be consumed with behind closed doors....but that funeral....with those dear little girls....and in front of the media. He quite simply isn't....well....'normal', and those speculations re personality disorders are probably right on the money. Do you recall someone mentioning something along the lines of this case will stretch all the way back to deep dark Africa? I was imagining in his defence a 'cultural angle' might be attempted, eg. killing and death is viewed and felt differently by Africans, hence we might see an entirely different attitude and response to what we might expect. I dunno. I'm just preoccupied with 'death' at the moment....as are we all, unfortunately.

May I say while here, what a fabulous, funny, intelligent, compassionate and thoroughly decent lot you all are! I've never been interested in 'crime' and would have suspected that those on fora such as these MUST be 'ghouls'.....however not so! And if course I am here too!! Allison's legacy will reach far and wide, and her influence on those in difficult domestic situations is already being felt.

On a lighter note, and in keeping with the 'doggy' theme....little 'Scrap' has already had her (?) 15 minutes of fame. I can't remember where I saw it (and I do hope I didn't dream it, so consuming has this business been night AND day) but I recall seeing a photo of Scrap.....she is a smallish, whitey, browney, hairy girl - some sort of terrier, and the photographer had taken her pic at 'her' level ie got down on his haunches. She DID look rather chuffed at being in the spotlight! (PLEASE tell me I didn't dream this!!!)

I'm off to work (via the Vet) all red eyed, swollen and blotchy (shame we didn't see any BCs in this state). RIP Allison (and RIP Fat Leo - gonna miss you old flea bag that you are:seeya.

PS. All speculations IMOO:moo:
PPS. Re the NASA lady....we, in the business, call them 'incontinence aides' (not diapers or nappies....one must be 'politically correct' when referring to people who have trouble with their waterworks!!! Eg. Come along Mr Greg, let me help you with your incontinence aide - we don't want any more of those wet beds, now do we?!)

Wozzle, great post, but very sorry to hear about your beloved doggy

I meant to welcome you yesterday, but got sidetracked going back and forth here, so a big belated welcome to you

BTW - I think I saw a photo of Scraps too!? Lol

 

[Seeking]

Radster- I'm starting to think perhaps you are actually hearing some inside stuff.

****snipped****
"Apparently GBC told one of the girls the next morning that "Mummy has fallen down a hole".

Very early on when the thread started we had a poster who to me seemed very informed/informative. He/She stated that when the police arrived one of the girls said something strange to the police.

To say she fell down a hole would be strange to say in the least and would also explain why they kept saying they were looking down old mine shafts etc.

Keep digging there radster. Thumbs up

If this "mummy has fallen down a hole" statement is in fact true and not rumour (which we have to be careful of).....as a mother of 4 children of various ages (4 - nearly 16) I don't believe that it is a strange response to come out of a child's mouth. I believe that in a similar situation my own children could have said something like that. I could imagine in the stress of a missing mother, children would have lots of questions....mine would anyway. Adults would be trying to keep the children from becoming too anxious or excessively worried. Adults would have to answer children's questions even if they don't have answers.

It goes like this: Child: " I want mummy. Where is mummy? When is she coming back? Why is everyone looking for her? Is something wrong with mummy? I want mummy. etc." Adult responds with " We don't know where mummy is. Hopefully she comes home soon. Everyone is doing their best to find her." Persistent intelligent child "But where is mummy? Where could she be? What could have happened to her?" After lots of unrelenting persistent questions to an adult that is probably highly stressed to start with adult says " We don't know where mummy is. Anything could have happened to her. Maybe she went for a walk and fell into one of those old mine shafts that we have told you to be careful of when we have walked in the bush. It could be something else too. We don't know but a lot of people are going to look everywhere to find mummy so that we can find her as soon as possible." Then a young child may say " What is an old mine shaft?". The adult may simply say "It is a large hole in the ground where they used to dig for gold."

Then children of various ages will process this info in different ways. An older child may get it and realise that no one knows where mum is, but they will have to look everywhere...even mine shafts. A young child may have only understood part of the information and "mummy fell in a hole" is what they have misunderstood to be what has happened to mummy..... and so what they come out with is..."mummy fell down a hole".

With my own children...I could see this scenario happening. I could even see an older child asking unrelenting persistent questions....then being answered by an adult.. a younger child overhearing the answer and processing it in their own possibly incorrect fashion and then spouting off some incorrect alarming fact innocently.

Please remember that this post is not a factual account of what the BC children said or didn't say. We don't want to start or grow any rumours. I am only responding to how I could see, based on my experiences as a mother, that a child could say something like Radster recorded in a post.

 

[marlywings]

Just thought I'd post these photos again...they give a good view of the bridge & surrounds...many thanks to dork whisperer for posting them.

Looking at these pics it's quite possible for he/they to have parked the car on the side, carried the body & placed it under the bridge....perhaps that "raging torrent",( mentioned by a local), only managed to push the body higher up the bank....although police seemed to be concentrating their search up around scout camp. Whichever it was I'd say police well & truly know by now....in my opinion.


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7957763&postcount=726"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #12[/ame]

 

[mouse detective]

Here is another one where GBC's sister claims that GBC face was scratched because of a fall that he had. ????????

http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/national/watch/29087181/police-search-husbands-office-for-clues/

He is so accident prone - isn't he. Accidentally falls over, accidentally crashes his car, accidentally mishears Police instruction and believes they have banned him from their command post. Maybe he accidentally forgot that he killed his wife and dumped her body?? JMOO
:cautionDrunk:

 

[Keentoknow]

Thanks for that link too Keentoknow...it's interesting isn't it?

Coincidence much that he fell over at this time? When you think about how often an able bodied person has a fall...All a bit suss to me.

IMO

Can see sister protection there, in that link.


He could have a BIGGER fall coming!!!

If fact I hope that well respected Det Supt Mark Ainswoth can catch two with the one hook. The apple does not fall far from the tree.

If Allison was watching this site what would she want us to say?

:fireworks2:

 

[marlywings]

Wozzle, great post, but very sorry to hear about your beloved doggy

I meant to welcome you yesterday, but got sidetracked going back and forth here, so a big belated welcome to you

BTW - I think I saw a photo of Scraps too!? Lol

Scraps the dog...

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/photo-galleries/gallery-fncvs823-1226336989408?page=44

Wozzle...so sad about your dog

 

[Keentoknow]

He is so accident prone - isn't he. Accidentally falls over, accidentally crashes his car, accidentally mishears Police instruction and believes they have banned him from their command post. Maybe he accidentally forgot that he killed his wife and dumped her body?? JMOO
:cautionDrunk:

:

:goodpost:

 

[Humdinger]

He is so accident prone - isn't he. Accidentally falls over, accidentally crashes his car, accidentally mishears Police instruction and believes they have banned him from their command post. Maybe he accidentally forgot that he killed his wife and dumped her body?? JMOO
:cautionDrunk:

Well this would be inline with the theory of the drunk driver 'forgetting' that they crashed into her and she went over the bridge

Reminds me of when I was little, I always used the excuse 'I accidentally forgot' I always thought it was a valid excuse, maybe others still do LOL

 

[mouse detective]

I wonder if the QPS will release a bit more information to be splashed across the weekend papers - as little bits of information get released, over a period of time the greater the pressure will be on the person/s responsible - they will see that the police are still building their case. I don't believe they will announce that anyone in particular is a suspect in this case. Once they have their case with all the i's dotted and t's crossed, it will be an instant arrest. The WA police made a mistake of announcing that Lloyd Rayney was their "prime and only suspect" in the killing of his wife. He will sue them for millions if he is found not guilty following his trial.

 

[Pseudonym]

Yes, there have been no arrests, but TM has apparently fully cooperated with QPS and she may have had some knowledge of what may have been planed (something like, oh, yes, he was always joking about getting rid of his wife, etc. IMO).

However, I personally don't believe this was premeditated.

I agree , he may have daydreamed aloud about a life without Allison but to actually plan , set up and involve others is incredible to me. But then the world is full of unusual people and maybe we can't accept it because its happening in our backyard.

 

[mouse detective]

MOUSE DETECTIVE: Thanks. Could be. Just could be. Good sleuthing another plausible scenario.

It has been suggested that a woman was seen on CCTV sitting in the passenger seat that night. I wonder if she was wearing a scarf around her neck. Could certainly have held her head in the right position.

 

[Liadan]

Ohh Wozzle - Hugs to you! Putting a pup down is so hard to do! They all have their unique personality that wangles their way into your heart no matter how bad they smell how ugly they are and how infuriated they can make you! But rest assured those sweet memories will bring you many heart warming times ahead -when you think about your pup you will smile and remember some crazy zany antic that made you laugh! Stay strong!

 

[LauraMars]

When I was searching for links yesterday, I ended up going right back to thread 1, after having no luck with the time lime/media links thread.

It was really interesting to read some of the old posts again, from that first week or so. There has been so much rumour/unspecified info from day one, but the following post made on the 26th April really struck me (before Allison's body was found, before media reports of affairs etc)...

Originally posted by girl99 - thread 1 - post #105

The facts
THe husband WAS having an ongoing affair which Allison found out about last year. he promised to end it, but his behaviour continued to be suspicious.
He crashed the car when he was due to be questioned by Police. He was driving a friends car and it would appear looking for an excuse to avoid the interview. (single car accident)

Allison would never have left her children under these circumstances. Never, ever. She was a well balanced person who was dealing with a difficult marital situation and naturally had lost some confidence. (like most middle aged women who have been at home raising kids, made worse by a chatting husband) BUT she would not have run away or hurt herself.
I am very very sad for her family and her children. I wonder what Gerards sister must be thinking. I don't know her ... i hope she is more sane than her brother. She must be confused ...wondering if he has done something to Al.
Unfortunately the likely story is that he has hurt her probably not premeditated, but instead of dealing with it he has tried to cover it up. Like the rest of his life which is a lie he thinks he can cover this up too. I wish he would at least man up, for the sake of his children. So they don't have to live thinking their Mummy has left them. Because she would never have done that.

Sorry, I'm not sure how to quote properly from a closed thread.