Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #17

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I missed this, apologies if it's already been discussed:

"The Courier-Mail understands one local woman, who owns a silver Holden Captiva, was questioned at the weekend on whether she had driven through the Kenmore roundabout at the intersection of Moggill and Brookfield roads in Brisbane's west on Thursday, April 19 - the night Mrs Baden-Clay was last seen alive.
In an apparent bid to clarify reported sightings and rule out various vehicles in the area, the woman was also asked whether she had recently pulled her car over to the side of Mt Crosby Rd." (perhaps near the bridge??)


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/dri...er/story-e6frfkvr-1226368925871#ixzz1wkOW3Cg0
 
Some interesting points in this one:

"The ‘Murder Twist’ report, broadcast by Channel Nine network’s ‘A Current Affair’ program, appears as an update on the murder case of Queensland mother, Allison Baden-Clay. The report confirms the murder of Baden-Clay but states that no cause of death has yet been released. The ‘investigation’ focuses on recent evidence that suggests that Gerard Baden-Clay, husband of the deceased, was having an affair with a work colleague whilst Allison was alive. The report has been designed to encourage audiences to question the motives of the husband and his lover."

http://s4291163.blogspot.com.au/
 
Thanks very much to everyone for the exceedingly warm welcome :)

Just some information regarding the discovery of Allison's body and the evidence that lead forensics/police to determine that Allison was deceased before her body was dumped. I apologise for the length of this post and doubly so if there are any members who are disturbed or upset by any of the subject matter.

When a human body has been discovered and the crime scene properly secured, the police will then work in conjunction with active investigating personnel to gather evidence and to attempt to pinpoint a cause of death. It is generally the police on scene who will initially note the position of the body and to record any obvious injuries or possible cause/s of death. The police will also note the physical conditions of the crime scene and any obvious evidence such a footprints, vehicle impressions, weapons, etc.

The forensics team on site will generally consist of one or two death investigators, a forensic photographer and any other experts that police feel might be able to assist with the investigation such as a ballistics expert or an expert in detecting trace elements and blood patterns. They will then work with police (generally, at this point, with assigned homicide detectives) to establish whether the death took place at the crime scene, whether there have been any attempts to tamper with or alter the crime scene, if the crime scene suggests correlating factors such as burglary or drug abuse, if the cause of death is obvious and if there are clues to suggest how the death occurred.

It is reasonable to assume that police and other personnel established at a fairly early point that the location of Allison's body was not the actual scene of her death. Circumstances that lead them to that opinion were possibly based on a number of factors, most notably the condition of her body, the fact that the area had been subjected to heavy rain and it was very likely that her body had travelled some distance, whether great or small, the position of her body and the lack of physical or forensic evidence at the scene.

It is my belief that the condition of Allison's body was more than likely a major factor in establishing that she was not killed where she was found and that she was dumped under the bridge after death.

As in Allison's case where no visible signs of foul play were perhaps immediately evident, a forensic entomologist is then employed to establish whether or not drowning was the official cause of death and when the approximate time of death occurred. Once drowning has been ruled out, the body is examined for other evidence of foul play and for the presence of pupae and other insects. These pupae are crucial in determining an approximate time or date of death and their presence can tell a forensic entomologist a lot about where the body has been. Blood pooling under the surface of the skin and rigor mortis would also have been taken into account to establish time of death.

Determining whether injuries suffered to the body occurred post or ante mortem is usually left to the coroner, but it should be noted that a body will decompose at a much slower rate in running water than it will in stagnant water, and obviously in cold water as opposed to warm. That said, lividity is most common in the head, neck and chest areas where victims have been submerged in water after death and then re-surfaced. This can make it very difficult to determine an "obvious" cause of death simply by looking at the body, particularly in cases where strangulation has been the cause of death.

Based on the process that is followed to determine a cause of death, the police are more than likely keeping whatever evidence they discovered out of the public eye at this point in their investigation. It is almost impossible to logically accept that there were no visible or obvious signs of foul play present on Allison's body at the time she was discovered, especially given that police released a statement saying that they were confident that they knew how she was killed.

It all adds to the mystery of her disappearance and death, but I have every confidence that the QPS are doing everything they can do gather all the evidence they need to make an arrest. I hope some of this information has been useful or at least shed some light on the processes involved in determining cause and time of death.
 
I am perplexed at both this and the fact that they said shortly after finding the body police had clear views on how Mrs Baden-Clay died, people close to the case have told The Sunday Mail.

I wonder what they found and how they knew so early that she was killed before being 'dumped' and what they saw to know how she was killed, before(it sounds) like an autopsy..It was reported there were no visual signs of foul play.. I think that obviously was police not wanting to let out what they knew. MOO

Very good pickup - it would seem from this that there was something obvious to police about how she died, without having to wait for official cause of death. But what could that be if it is also true there are no visual signs of foul play? The two things just don't add up. You are probably right, the police dont want to let on they did know. Just like when they said they were treating the case as a missing persons case, yet later said that they were treating it like a homicide for quite some time.
 
@it's the vibe - I'm with you on how and where Allison was placed (hidden) high up under the bridge. Three cheers for the canoeist I say!

I checked the tide levels in Kholo Creek on pertinent dates. Here they are:

Water levels on 19.4.12
kholotide1.jpg


Water levels on 29/30.4.12
kholotide2.jpg


Water level in this pic (taken Feb28 2012) is approximately 2.2m - high tide.
kholowaterlevely.jpg
 
"In the Australian state of Queensland, the power to arrest is granted by s.546 of Schedule 1 to the Criminal Code Act 1899. Under the Act, any person who finds another committing an offence may, without warrant, arrest the other person. The power to arrest in Queensland also allows for arrest on suspicion of an offence:

If the offence has been actually committed -- it is lawful for any person who believes on reasonable ground that another person has committed the offence to arrest that person without warrant, whether that other person has committed the offence or not."
Citizen's arrest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grannie,
I thought you went to bed.
Take a pill dear and it will help with the worrying.
Sweet dreams :seeya:
 
appreciate your comments but sorry its just not the way it works. they have to slowly and surely build a water tight case otherwise an experienced defence barrister will rip them to shreds.

Even if they did find some very interesting things in one of the cars it would simply be included as part of their evidence file.
Without a murder weapon, witnesses or extremely strong crime scene evidence this is how these cases have to play out I'm afraid.
build, build and build even more evidence so the rats can't weasle out of it based on 'circumstancial'
when these guys knock on that door, rest assured, it will take a miracle for that individual/s to get out of it. And they won't knock on that door until they are good and ready[/QUOTE

Wish it was this easy, building a case, presenting it and the reality of how it is viewed and reacted to by judges, witnesses, the accused and the jury. Some conscience reaction is relied upon but not all have the same weight on their morals as the rest of us depending on what they want in the end.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM"]Classic Movie Line #15 - YouTube[/ame]
 
According to the media, the police has one witness who saw some two cars at 4am on Friday. Those cars have not been identified. Even their models have not been identified. Their connection to the crime scene has not been established. Yes, they looked suspicious, like any car at 4am. But it could be unrelated to the murder.
Maybe gbc Or lover went back to check murder scene to make sure no evidence left and story fits if caught. " a final check"
 
Just some information regarding the discovery of Allison's body and the evidence that lead forensics/police to determine that Allison was deceased before her body was dumped. I apologise for the length of this post and doubly so if there are any members who are disturbed or upset by any of the subject matter.

...It is my belief that the condition of Allison's body was more than likely a major factor in establishing that she was not killed where she was found and that she was dumped under the bridge after death.

...Based on the process that is followed to determine a cause of death, the police are more than likely keeping whatever evidence they discovered out of the public eye at this point in their investigation. It is almost impossible to logically accept that there were no visible or obvious signs of foul play present on Allison's body at the time she was discovered, especially given that police released a statement saying that they were confident that they knew how she was killed.

...I hope some of this information has been useful or at least shed some light on the processes involved in determining cause and time of death.

PIRATHAMES: Thank you. Your contribution is indeed useful and provides us with a helpful description of the Police and Forensic process following the discovery of a dead body. Much appreciated.
 
@it's the vibe - I'm with you on how and where Allison was placed (hidden) high up under the bridge. Three cheers for the canoeist I say!

I checked the tide levels in Kholo Creek on pertinent dates. Here they are:

Water levels on 19.4.12

Thanks for the tide times & graphs...just curious about the high tides through the week when Allison was missing...they go from 2.1m - 2.4m. But the weekend of 28th - 29th April (weekend just prior to her body being found) was the weekend when we had all that rain, with some recording around 100mm yet the high tides for that weekend, according to willy, are back down to only 2.1m??

http://tides.willyweather.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane-river--kholo-creek.html
 
In this case, fingerprints, hair or even a drop of blood would not matter because the victim could drive either of the cars. What else is there to find? A murder weapon. Then it directly implicates GBC. Fresh soil samples from the scouts facility or the creek found on the car(s) - the same.



Lots of fresh blood in nooks and crannies which were missed in the very very recent home-based cleaning of the inside of the car.
 
Thanks for the tide times & graphs...just curious about the high tides through the week when Allison was missing...they go from 2.1m - 2.4m. But the weekend of 28th - 29th April (weekend just prior to her body being found) was the weekend when we had all that rain, with some recording around 100mm yet the high tides for that weekend, according to willy, are back down to only 2.1m??

http://tides.willyweather.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane-river--kholo-creek.html


Are water levels that far up the river influenced much by the tides?
 
Whose defence? We don't yet have a defendant.
When someone is charged the defence will have their own set of experts to try and rebut the prosecution evidence, or to try to put holes in it at the least.

I should have said after the trial commences. At the Chamberlain trail blood samples were taken away and retested. I asked this question because procedures change over the years.
 
I would love to go to this but I live too far away. This would be a great venue for all of the members here who wanted to meet up, as was mentioned in a previous thread. You'd be surrounded by big burly firemen, :what: SES crew, etc. I think I'd feel safe in that environment. :blushing: Hopefully GBC is in the big house by then. If not then Mike Kaye should insist that he attend and make himself available as the middle stump! :floorlaugh:

Darn, I'll be in Hawaii that week!
 
Water level in this pic (taken Feb28 2012) is approximately 2.2m - high tide.
Thanks for all the photos etc. you've posted, dork_whisperer - excellent work!

One clarification: the photo of the high-tide water level shows a date of 2011, but you've described it as 2012. Which one is the typo?
 
Hi Everyone,

This is my first post here but I have been watching and reading this case for a number of weeks now. ... what prompted me to post tonight was the recent discussion regarding evidence...It is incorrect to assume that because a search has been conducted and that there were no subsequent or immediate arrests that no evidence was found. Compiling evidence during a murder investigation is a mammoth task that can, and often does, take weeks, months or even years to completely and satisfactorily carry out before an arrest can be made.

... This is clearly a complicated case with a possibility of one or more perpetrators and the police are exhausting all leads and all contributing factors before they make an arrest. We all hope that that happens sooner rather than later, but to suggest that no evidence was found because an arrest has not been made implies a misunderstanding of how police investigations work.

Thanks to all for your continued passion regarding bringing Allison's killer/s to justice, and for taking the time to read this. Happy sleuthing.

PIRETHAMES: Thank you for your contribution. It helps our understanding of the Police investigative process, the complex nature of the work within, and reminds us not to make assumptions re evidence/lack of evidence just because there has not been an arrest(s). Good solid post.
 
All I can make out is that looks to be where the body is. I am not sure what people are seeing that I'm not that leads to thoughts of the particular position it's in (eg mentions of hands tied, where the head is etc). It just seems too blurry to me. Anyone who is confident of what they're seeing of the way it is lying kindly mind doing an arrow diagram?

I zoomed,played with contrast etc and I could still ot see what anyone else is either. Just looks like a blur to me to. I just had my vision checked and I don't need glasses.
 
Email is a great thing, if you were a reporter you could write the article at home and email it into your work! Who would have guessed!
 
Exactly. Like in any other car driven by a human. Why would the BC's cars be sterile? All the listed above material evidence matters only if it has connection to the crime scene. If it does, then one can draw a conclusion that the car has been to the area of interest on the 19th or early on the 20th.

It could be sterile (almost) if someone gave it a thorough cleaning. Though that is pretty suss then!
 
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