Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #19

[loveandlite2012]

you are the second person to call me Mani in the last day or so!! I dont mind because I love Mani!!

I agree with you about how would anyone be that stupid. Its one of the reasons it doesnt fit for me.
as for your other scenario, maybe GBC called pops and they came looking for her, and and accident ensued? I cant imagine them deciding to off her, unles she was threatening to 'expose' something? Like I said, its here that I lose any flow and get stumped

Sorry Minni for calling you Mani

I'm leaning towards "skeleton's in closet" that Allison may have threatened to exposed, would then possibly make sense why it happened that night after the alleged DV, they HAD to and worry about the consequences after it, but getting her to shut-up was priority.....all specualtion of course, if this DV incident did in fact happen that night.

 

[minni]

Sorry Minni for calling you Mani

I'm leaning towards "skeleton's in closet" that Allison may have threatened to exposed, would then possibly make sense why it happened that night after the alleged DV, they HAD to and worry about the consequences after it, but getting her to shut-up was priority.....all specualtion of course, if this DV incident did in fact happen that night.

thats ok, like I said, I love Mani

I personally believe it did happen as its been mentioned by locals from the start nearly, and ITSTHEVIBE totally has the vibe.......so I take heed of her posts, and several others who I feel are in the know. So thats just my opinion on the local gossip.

Yes, I can imagine Allison being so upset that night now....I think we all say and do some horrible things when we are feeling this way. When you are hurt, its human nature to want to hurt back..anger feels like a good way to deal with the hurt at the time, because it masks the pain. But in reality of course, this coping mechanism is very unhealthy, I just believe that most of us have used it or use to deal, and Allison would probably be no exception. IMO

 

[coffeechick]

I have always thought that GBC was innocent from the start - still do. Although I feel IMO that he knows something - I beliebe that the police were called to the house that night with a domestic fight - not abuse - but a verbal fight between ABC & GBC. I think he stormed off and went to bed - maybe contacting someone before doing so. I think ABC left shortly afterwards in the car. IMO - GBC parents are involved with some other people. Whether it be the mistress I don't know. Things got out of hand and ABC was killed in the moment of heat. I think the car was then taken back to GBC and he woke up the next morning and reported her missing. IMO he knows something - but feels an obligation towards family etc not to say anything that will cause them to go to jail. Maybe he feels responsible - which in a round about way he is - as he was having the affair in the first place. He is certainly not responsible for the action of what others have done in the killing of ABC... but is responsible in creating this scenerio with the affair in the first place. IMO he lawyered up because of the police visit in the domestic. But that does not make him a murderer. It makes the scene more murky for him - but IMO he is innocent of the murder of his wife. I think we will be in for a surprised when and if the police make an arrest.

 

[Aunty]

What about this scenario?
1. Police have already been at house for dv that night.
2. After police leave , dv heats up again and Allison is murdered.
3. Murderer rings dad and tells him about whole evenings murder and also that police attended earlier. They agree on plan to coverup murder and get rid of body and evidence. Agree on scouts area to dump body.
4. Fathers job is to walk up to kenmore roundabout , and watch for police activity. He will alert murderer if police head out along brookfield rd or moggill rd. Father sits at bus stop as its best view in both directions. ( spotter)
5. Son rings lover and she arrives at house soon after. They drive out to dump body. (2 cars involved)
6. Lover drives back through roundabout to her house afterwards.
7. Son drives back through roundabout and picks Father up and drives back through roundabout to get home again to cleanup all evidence. Father and son spend next few hours 4am - 7am conspiring and cleaning up.
8. Son rings police ....

 

[linette]

ON THAT NOTE....I want to add a something, my husband said straight away that NBC was sitting at the bus shelter at the roundabout as a "SPOTTER".

That means ....well husband said, just a spotter to ring and alert for some reason.

That makes alot of sense. Only thing is he got spotted. IMO

 

[minni]

I have always thought that GBC was innocent from the start - still do. Although I feel IMO that he knows something - I beliebe that the police were called to the house that night with a domestic fight - not abuse - but a verbal fight between ABC & GBC. I think he stormed off and went to bed - maybe contacting someone before doing so. I think ABC left shortly afterwards in the car. IMO - GBC parents are involved with some other people. Whether it be the mistress I don't know. Things got out of hand and ABC was killed in the moment of heat. I think the car was then taken back to GBC and he woke up the next morning and reported her missing. IMO he knows something - but feels an obligation towards family etc not to say anything that will cause them to go to jail. Maybe he feels responsible - which in a round about way he is - as he was having the affair in the first place. He is certainly not responsible for the action of what others have done in the killing of ABC... but is responsible in creating this scenerio with the affair in the first place. IMO he lawyered up because of the police visit in the domestic. But that does not make him a murderer. It makes the scene more murky for him - but IMO he is innocent of the murder of his wife. I think we will be in for a surprised when and if the police make an arrest.

thanks coffee chick, I am of the same opinion as you here, almost exactly actually. I have been feeling this and stating this for a while, wanting and waiting for someone to poke enough holes in it to discard it. But its not working and the more it gets examined, the more I feel its right. I know its speculation, but for me, it fits.

I also want to apologise if I am offending anyone by discussing the possibility that Allison was furious, maybe threatening, maybe abusive back at GBC, maybe also in deep despair that particular night. I would never ever try to speak ill of her, ever. I am trying to be realistic when I consider these as being possible. For example, I think I am a good person, and a loving mother, but I have lost my s*** completely in situations maybe such as this before, where you are so angry or hurt you just want to explode. And I have said some terrible things to someone I love, to try and hurt them for hurting me. I think that many good, kind level headed people out there have experienced the same. IMO

 

[Elspeth]

When the police did the initial search on BC's property would they have had to have a warrant to do so?

 

[kalamityk]

I think that's why they declared it a crime scene straight away - so no need for a warrant

 

[Woombite]

Now what could Allison possibly have threatened to expose, that would push a person or persons to such an extent to take her life?
Aside from other criminal activity (possibly child related?) what else would be serious enough? Hope REIQ send the auditors in to look overthe rent roll and trust account quick smart.
Public humiliation and other sanctions could have been a motive. Not that murder does not have serious consequences but perhaps not an intentional act but a step too far?

 

[minni]

What about this scenario?
1. Police have already been at house for dv that night.
2. After police leave , dv heats up again and Allison is murdered.
3. Murderer rings dad and tells him about whole evenings murder and also that police attended earlier. They agree on plan to coverup murder and get rid of body and evidence. Agree on scouts area to dump body.
4. Fathers job is to walk up to kenmore roundabout , and watch for police activity. He will alert murderer if police head out along brookfield rd or moggill rd. Father sits at bus stop as its best view in both directions. ( spotter)
5. Son rings lover and she arrives at house soon after. They drive out to dump body. (2 cars involved)
6. Lover drives back through roundabout to her house afterwards.
7. Son drives back through roundabout and picks Father up and drives back through roundabout to get home again to cleanup all evidence. Father and son spend next few hours 4am - 7am conspiring and cleaning up.
8. Son rings police ....

that is a really good theory. Its also really scary to consider that many people involved. But possible. There has to be a better reason for NBC to be sitting at bus stop though, but as there is barely any good reasons that we have considered yet, this one is fair, because of the previous call out, but Im still not convinced. surely he could be put to better use if it was all for a cover up?
other reasons he was at bus stop besides watching for cops AFTER she was killed could be to:
help her knowing she was upset?
stop her from her destination out of concern for her?
stop her from her destination out of concern for himself and his family and some possible exposure?
could he be waiting for her return from where ever she went?
could he be waiting for TM? did she have a visit from Allison that ended badly? GBC would still be home with kids, NBC would step in to help TM,

I cant get my head around him sitting at the bus stop patiently knowing she was dead. what time was he there? has it been mentioned? he couldnt have got there sooner than Allison if she sped off down Broookfield road, driving erratically at 11pm as reported. I think if we know what time he was there, we might be able to come up with a half decent reason?

 

[Elspeth]

I think that's why they declared it a crime scene straight away - so no need for a warrant

Would this have also been the case with the older BC's or would a warrant have been required when they did this search?

 

[marlywings]

Part 3 Crime scenes
Division 1 Establishment of crime scenes
164 Gaining access to crime scenes
(1) It is lawful for a police officer—
(a) to enter a place to reach another place that the police
officer reasonably suspects is a crime scene; and
(b) to enter a place that the police officer reasonably
suspects is a crime scene and stay on the place for the
time reasonably necessary to decide whether or not to
establish a crime scene.
(2) What is a reasonable time for subsection (1)(b) will depend on
the particular circumstances including -

(a) the nature of any information obtained or any
observation made that suggests the place is a crime
scene; and

(b) visible evidence that will help decide whether it is a
primary or secondary crime scene; and

(c) any preliminary inspection of the place.
165 Initial establishment of crime scene

(1) If a police officer enters a place that may be a crime scene, or
is lawfully at a place, and decides the place is a crime scene,
the police officer (the responsible officer) may establish a
crime scene and exercise crime scene powers at the place.

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/current/P/PolicePowResA00.pdf

 

[SydneySleuth]

thanks coffee chick, I am of the same opinion as you here, almost exactly actually. I have been feeling this and stating this for a while, wanting and waiting for someone to poke enough holes in it to discard it. But its not working and the more it gets examined, the more I feel its right. I know its speculation, but for me, it fits.

I also want to apologise if I am offending anyone by discussing the possibility that Allison was furious, maybe threatening, maybe abusive back at GBC, maybe also in deep despair that particular night. I would never ever try to speak ill of her, ever. I am trying to be realistic when I consider these as being possible. For example, I think I am a good person, and a loving mother, but I have lost my s*** completely in situations maybe such as this before, where you are so angry or hurt you just want to explode. And I have said some terrible things to someone I love, to try and hurt them for hurting me. I think that many good, kind level headed people out there have experienced the same. IMO

I can't imagine you would be offending anyone. I think most people have been in a situation where tempers flare. From what we've been reading in these threads, it wasn't paradise in their marriage MOO.

 

[marlywings]

Would this have also been the case with the older BC's or would a warrant have been required when they did this search?

April 28, 2012 12:00AM


Mr Baden-Clay remained sequestered at his parents' house in nearby Kenmore.

Police continued to visit him and on Thursday, eight detectives armed with a search warrant entered the Kenmore home and left with a laptop, a hard drive and bags of evidence.

Next, they visited his Century 21 office at Taringa, calling the raids "standard" for such an investigation.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...baden-clays-call/story-e6freuy9-1226341322057

 

[linette]

thanks coffee chick, I am of the same opinion as you here, almost exactly actually. I have been feeling this and stating this for a while, wanting and waiting for someone to poke enough holes in it to discard it. But its not working and the more it gets examined, the more I feel its right. I know its speculation, but for me, it fits.

I also want to apologise if I am offending anyone by discussing the possibility that Allison was furious, maybe threatening, maybe abusive back at GBC, maybe also in deep despair that particular night. I would never ever try to speak ill of her, ever. I am trying to be realistic when I consider these as being possible. For example, I think I am a good person, and a loving mother, but I have lost my s*** completely in situations maybe such as this before, where you are so angry or hurt you just want to explode. And I have said some terrible things to someone I love, to try and hurt them for hurting me. I think that many good, kind level headed people out there have experienced the same. IMO

I agree that level-headed, nice people can lose it. After my abusive ex continued threatening us for years after we broke up, there was one night in particular where he had our daughters scared for their lives. I will never forget standing in the hallway at my house sooo furious and angry at him, i said to my older son {he was about 17} "IF he comes ANYWHERE near this house tonight, I'm going to kill him, and I mean REALLY kill him." I think I could have even managed it. But that was out of the sheer frustration of this man thinking he had the right to try and destroy me and my kids. I've never felt that kind of rage within me since... but to protect my kids I would have done anything. The worse part is that it would have been ME in trouble, not him.

That's what's sad about these things, it can change someone to the point that they would do something they would normally NEVER consider. If you were to ask anyone who knows me they'd say I'm quiet and hate confrontation.

I know it's sort of off-topic, but this is how things sometimes go. IMO

 

[minni]

I agree that level-headed, nice people can lose it. After my abusive ex continued threatening us for years after we broke up, there was one night in particular where he had our daughters scared for their lives. I will never forget standing in the hallway at my house sooo furious and angry at him, i said to my older son {he was about 17} "IF he comes ANYHERE near this house tonight, I'm going to kill him, and I mean REALLY kill him." I think I could have even managed it. But that was out of the sheer frustration of this man thinking he had the right to try and destroy me and my kids. I've never felt that kind of rage within me since... but to ptrotect me kids I would have done anything. The worse part is that it would have been ME in trouble, not him.

That's what's sad about these things, it can change someone to the point that they would do something they would normally NEVER consider. If you were to ask anyone who knows me they'd say I'm quiet and hate confrontation.

I know it's sort of off-topic, but this is how things sometimes go. IMO

Thank you Linette, thats the type of situation that I am trying to refer to. A woman in this situation would get fed up, and give it back, even though its not really in her nature to fire up.
And a mother will stop at nothing to protect her kids.

 

[Fuskier]

Now what could Allison possibly have threatened to expose, that would push a person or persons to such an extent to take her life?
Aside from other criminal activity (possibly child related?) what else would be serious enough? Hope REIQ send the auditors in to look overthe rent roll and trust account quick smart.
Public humiliation and other sanctions could have been a motive. Not that murder does not have serious consequences but perhaps not an intentional act but a step too far?

On the other hand, for discussion, remember a poster claiming that someone had 'spilled the beans' and informed that the murder was planned for another month, but the Perp(s) acted early? Wonder if that person is the alleged accessory mentioned in the Paul Tully post as seeking immunity from prosecution from the QLD Attorney General? Just another throught. My opinion only, not fact.

 

[minni]

On the other hand, for discussion, remember a poster claiming that someone had 'spilled the beans' and informed that the murder was planned for another month, but the Perp(s) acted early? Wonder if that person is the alleged accessory mentioned in the Paul Tully post as seeking immunity from prosecution from the QLD Attorney General? Just another throught. My opinion only, not fact.

oohhh yeah, that was also a rumour from the locals too, how could I forget that? It worked out that if true, the murder would have been carried out on Brooky show weekend, I thought possibly they were going to use the large amount of people there to make it look random? do you remember who posted it?

I think that is why I got on the theory about triads and bikies which everyone got a good laugh about.

 

[Mani]

Because he is wearing 2 hats and his mistress would not approve

Its called snooker. There were lots of things he could not say. He was in a catch 22.

BBM

Good post!:rocker:

KtK - I am swimming against the tide when I say this I know, but the catch 22 that he found himself in, could also be referred to as integrity.

The point you made could be a sound one, as :sick: as that might appear to you and others here.

A poster the other night used the word 'estrangement', which I picked up on and queried as to whether they knew something about the BC relationship or were just using the word to describe the state of the marriage in their own opinion. The latter was the correct one.

What we are not privvy to is the state of the marriage and whether they were estranged, i.e. going through the motions/keeping up appearances, whereas in reality, their affections were with other people.

That does not belie what OW said about GBC loving Allison, however for all we know, his main affections could be committed elsewhere.

GBC's affair with TM appears to have been out in the open and known and accepted (it would appear) to locals and family. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8470325/baden-clay-knew-of-husbands-affair

To all intents and purposes, the MSM have focused on GBC, insofar as they have reported on what is going on in his life, given he is the husband.

QPS have stated that they think Allison knew her killer. Is there possibly someone else close to Allison that the general public have not been told about? IMO

Just putting it out there folks................

 

[marlywings]

BBM

Good post!:rocker:

KtK - I am swimming against the tide when I say this I know, but the catch 22 that he found himself in, could also be referred to as integrity.

Your point could be a sound one, as :sick: as that might appear to you and others here.

A poster the other night used the word 'estrangement', which I picked up on and queried as to whether they knew something about the BC relationship or were just using the word to describe the state of the marriage in their own opinion. The latter was the correct one.

What we are not privvy to is the state of the marriage and whether they were estranged, i.e. going through the motions/keeping up appearances, whereas in reality, their affections were with other people.

That does not belie what OW said about GBC loving Allison, however for all we know, his main affections could be committed elsewhere.

GBC's affair with TM appears to have been out in the open and known and accepted (it would appear) to locals and family. To all intents and purposes, the MSM have focused on GBC, insofar as they have reported on what is going on in his life, given he is the husband.

QPS have stated that they think Allison knew her killer. Is there possibly someone else close to Allison that the general public have not been told about? IMO

Just putting it out there folks................

Then there's the mystery Sydney woman...where or how is she going to fit into the picture I wonder...was she in Brisbane for that REIQ conference on Friday 20th??