Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #19

[Keentoknow]

Thanks Keen To Know for that document re listening and observation devices. I found this quote from it to be interesting.

<<Evidence obtained from a surveillance device may prove invaluable as an investigative tool and assist in planning further overt police investigations, but may not be used by the prosecution during a committal or trial>>

Comes under Evidence Act. Re Electronic evidence. Hope this helps

HUNDREDS of documents, surveillance tapes and other evidence collected by police in a legal bid to destroy the Finks bikie gang have revealed the Gold Coast's frightening crime underbelly.

The evidence, released for the first time yesterday, was filed at the Supreme Court on Friday as part of the landmark move to have the Gold Coast's most notorious outlaw motorcycle club declared a criminal organisation.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2012/06/05/421765_gold-coast-news.html

 

[clara123]

Thanks Trooper for confirming this apparent irregularity, was wondering if I had imagined it. Along the lines of your thinking, that it would be unlikely Allsion herself suggested this to OW, then who did? Excellent question. As a generalisation ONLY, I think that many who enter the military are not the most independently minded types, and perhaps a little sugestible not to mention loyal, dedicated and obedient. On the other hand, as I said OW words are not mutually exclusive, but in the context, curious.

MOO

 

[louisepiglet]

SHe did not commit suicide, she was murdered as stated quite clear by Supt det Ainsworth 'unlawful homicide'. What posters are trying to get at here is what is the motive behind the BCs and OW trying to raise the issue of depression starting some days after her disappearance.

Sorry Rational. That i what I was getting at. I think the BCs were trying to suggest suicide by mentioning depression. Wouldn't the police be able to examine Allison's medical records re the depression.

 

[Rational]

On another matter have any of us considered if GBC could have been sleeping over at Nigelaine for some or most of the time. Could this be the reason for the police executing a search warrant there and possibly mean that he told the police he went there after he said goodnight, than returned in the morning (after having been back several times to commit the crime and to clean up etc) thinking he had the perfect alibi. 'no officer I saw my son go to bed and he was here in the morning when I woke up' - accessory to murder and NGBs assistance covered up by NGB 'after the fact' also accessory to murder? Would leave a hard case to argue for the prosecution unless someone cracks or particularly if the assistance with the body was provided by a fourth person.
Keeping in mind that this possible scenario depends on the children also being at Nigelaines for the sleepover (which has not been resolved either way) and would strengthen the alibis as well as assist by taking the kids over to home in the morning 'let's see mummy before school and pick up the sports shoes you forgot , oh mummy must be for a walk, wonder what keeps her so long'.MOO

 

[possumheart]

Perhaps NBC sat at the bus stop whilst EBC, TM or OW helped GBC dress ABC, deeming it women's business and offering A some respect.

 

[Rational]

Rational, thanks for your very useful summary.

I have one question at this stage about the cars. How to explain the purpose of two cars? If Allison were murdered at home, then GBC could drive only one car, get rid of her body and then come back in the same car. If Allison went out (where to?) by car and GBC followed (with C21 logo) and then murdered her, then somebody would have to be called to drive the second car, and if it were TM, then where would she keep her own car? GBC would then have to call two people for help (and register it with a telephone company), so that they could come in the same car and then split. Here it starts looking a bit too public. If they were the members of some gang or a sect, then it would be easy, but for ordinary people it would be a bit too much involvement, in my opinion. Considering GBC's alleged narcissistic nature, it is unlikely that he could involve his relatives. It would have to be a family dynasty of criminals to execute a murder as a family business. JMO.

Grannie
These points were only taken from what had been reported by police and the media in seeking assistance. There was probably a whole thread utilised discussing the potential in an outs but as it is I have no view either way. I simply see it as a witness claims to have seen this and the police asked if anyone else could assist.

 

[Trooper]

Thanks Trooper for confirming this apparent irregularity, was wondering if I had imagined it. Along the lines of your thinking, that it would be unlikely Allsion herself suggested this to OW, then who did? Excellent question. MOO

that little cameo has had me intrigued since I saw it, Clara..

Not only WHO told Olivia about Allisons mental state, and if so, WHY they told her. ( like you, I am discounting Allison telling Olivia before her disappearance *( murder) ....)

But WHY did Olivia find it imperative, among all that was happening to state this publicly?

some scenarious come to mind. Should the SES and the public be searching for a woman shambolic in a mental fugue and to be approached warily?

Should it be then switched from a search for a healthy woman out on her regular walk to an ill woman who may not be coherent?

Should it be inferred that Allison may have wandered far far away? like... oh.. Cluncurry? or...?? being depressed and 'wanting' to get away?

Curious and curiouser in deed, Clara.

 

[louisepiglet]

I thought the strangest thing that Olivia said in that interview was "Gerard loves Allison". Why would she say that. She is/was his wife. It would be assumed. Why stress it.

 

[Radster]

Depressed can mean so many things, IMO. There's depressed as in "feeling down for a few days" and then there's clinically depressed where a person has physical ailments and sad thoughts for days and days.

If Allison said she was depressed, who can blame her? Her husband was having an affair!

Then there's the question of whether Gerard was telling people she was depressed. I've mentioned this before and I'll mention it again, the most common two things I've seen husbands who are suss in a missing wife's case say are "she ran off with another man" and "she was depressed". They want the world to think either she's out there somewhere living the high life with a new lover or that she committed suicide. Both stories are said quite often. I've been reading these cases for years and before that, read a lot of books by Ann Rule.

So true. It always amazes me when men, looking for sympathy and/or permission, say their wife is depressed and not for one minute think their audience might be thinking, "Probably because she's living with a complete *advertiser censored**hole".

 

[Rational]

that little cameo has had me intrigued since I saw it, Clara..

Not only WHO told Olivia about Allisons mental state, and if so, WHY they told her. ( like you, I am discounting Allison telling Olivia before her disappearance *( murder) ....)

But WHY did Olivia find it imperative, among all that was happening to state this publicly?

some scenarious come to mind. Should the SES and the public be searching for a woman shambolic in a mental fugue and to be approached warily?

Should it be then switched from a search for a healthy woman out on her regular walk to an ill woman who may not be coherent?

Should it be inferred that Allison may have wandered far far away? like... oh.. Cluncurry? or...?? being depressed and 'wanting' to get away?

Curious and curiouser in deed, Clara.

IMO they (the perps incl accessories before and/or after ) never intended for Alisson to be found, they simply did not count on the deluge of water that either washed the body downstream or dislodged it from behind the pylons under the bridge. Hence a rumour that she was depressed would, in their sick minds, have strengthened the view that somehow she brought this on herself. MOO

 

[clara123]

I thought the strangest thing that Olivia said in that interview was "Gerard loves Allison". Why would she say that. She is/was his wife. It would be assumed. Why stress it.

Because, perhaps subconsciously she was trying to convince herself, not the rest of us.

 

[possumheart]

Thank you Indromum and CJ30. So nice to know there are fresh flowers at the bridge. Very special!

 

[Trooper]

If I was good hearted kind of gal, ready to see the best in everyone, I would say that Olivia mentioning Allisons depression was to give us all a bit of a heads up that this whole search and rescue panoply was most likely not going to end up a happy event.. we should prepare ourselves for the inevitable discovery of poor Allison having thrown herself off the nearest bridge, or in her amazing way, buried her own self whilst dead under a sandbank, or perhaps,... perhaps... never being found again..

Preparing everyone for the most likely outcome, and he, Gerard, the bereaved , tired, been thru the wringer, only a little bit hurt, speechless, grieving widower, luckily with an upright sister to assist and help in any way possible, and..


oh yea.. sure..

 

[clara123]

that little cameo has had me intrigued since I saw it, Clara..

Not only WHO told Olivia about Allisons mental state, and if so, WHY they told her. ( like you, I am discounting Allison telling Olivia before her disappearance *( murder) ....)

But WHY did Olivia find it imperative, among all that was happening to state this publicly?

some scenarious come to mind. Should the SES and the public be searching for a woman shambolic in a mental fugue and to be approached warily?

Should it be then switched from a search for a healthy woman out on her regular walk to an ill woman who may not be coherent?

Should it be inferred that Allison may have wandered far far away? like... oh.. Cluncurry? or...?? being depressed and 'wanting' to get away?

Curious and curiouser in deed, Clara.

Again (see my reply to Louise Piglet), perhaps repeating "knowns" to convince herself? MOO, and has only just now occurred to me after seven weeks of pondering.

 

[Mani]

ha ha, thanks Mani, don't shout up to me! you have to 'mount' something in your life I hope..... LOL

REfer to Case Closed a few times over the last few months.
This will turn out to be pretty simple (whilst evil) and nothing too complicated and no 'squares to be thought outside of' in my opinion.
They just need to prove it, and admittedly whilst I thought they were just taking their time for completeness, I am now beginning to wonder whether this is not the case. Word on the beat and in legal circles is that they know 100% who committed the crime, the time and how it all happened from absolute start to finish..
no witnesses, no weapon used, lack of useful or compelling forensic results and a very clean crime scene is just making it hard for them to be able to make an arrest and subsequently for the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law.
your work in many ways is done here I am afraid fellow sleuthers...
But we still come back obviously and live in hope that today is the day!!

Well I thought you might be the Eiger or the Matterhorn or K2 so I was shouting up to you as it is rarefied air up there - quite clear at times too from my recollection but what I was wanting you to do was to come down from your RockyMountainHigh and look outside the square with me - however, you have been mingling and mixing with BigWigs and TortyFellows - maybe listening in on a Moot or two and you are way ahead of me.

So I will take my place in the town square as ManiHardlyAnyMates and you, along with the rest can pelt me with pies, rotten tomatoes and cabbages :websleuther:

 

[minni]

that little cameo has had me intrigued since I saw it, Clara..

Not only WHO told Olivia about Allisons mental state, and if so, WHY they told her. ( like you, I am discounting Allison telling Olivia before her disappearance *( murder) ....)

But WHY did Olivia find it imperative, among all that was happening to state this publicly?

some scenarious come to mind. Should the SES and the public be searching for a woman shambolic in a mental fugue and to be approached warily?

Should it be then switched from a search for a healthy woman out on her regular walk to an ill woman who may not be coherent?

Should it be inferred that Allison may have wandered far far away? like... oh.. Cluncurry? or...?? being depressed and 'wanting' to get away?

Curious and curiouser in deed, Clara.

I am not seeing the importance of OW allegedly knowing that ABC allegedly had depression. they are sisters in law. and they talked apparently. This is something family is often aware of, and maybe something that they didn't want to mention until they actually became concerned?

I don't have a strong opinion in any particular direction about OW. At times I have been suspicious, for example, the standover posture in the video and the supervigilant darting of the eyes whilst watching of the media. But at other times, I saw this same behaviour as standing by her brother, and a general anxiety about what was unfolding. So I am making the first comment in general, not in defense of OW.

I actually do not see that it is unusual that her sister in law would know these things about her. All my 3 sister in laws know much about me, and they all live 2000, 5000 and 7000 km away! oh I and I have one who is living in India but I can't calculate the km's

 

[ollijack]

I'm not sure why, I posted an opinion this morning and it has disappeared....I was just wanting to say that my belief is GBC & NBC are both as guilty as sin....of course I may be incorrect but IMO one or both hurt and killed a poor fragile Allison...never never will I understand why..... <Mod Snip> IMO

 

[minni]

Well I thought you might be the Eiger or the Matterhorn or K2 so I was shouting up to you as it is rarefied air up there - quite clear at times too from my recollection but what I was wanting you to do was to come down from your RockyMountainHigh and look outside the square with me - however, you have been mingling and mixing with BigWigs and TortyFellows - maybe listening in on a Moot or two and you are way ahead of me.

So I will take my place in the town square as ManiHardlyAnyMates and you, along with the rest can pelt me with pies, rotten tomatoes and cabbages :websleuther:

IN MY PERSONAL OPINION...I love people who think outside the square, and aren't afraid to say so! I will never throw mangy fruit or vegetables at you <Mod Snip>

 

[Fuskier]

Perhaps NBC sat at the bus stop whilst EBC, TM or OW helped GBC dress ABC, deeming it women's business and offering A some respect.

POSSUMHEART: good observation. Accessories come to mind helping dress the victim being womens business.

 

[minni]

off topic but does anyone else find themselves saying to people during conversations "in my opinion??"
I have caught myself out a couple of times...and then I laugh, and then I look even stupider
:floorlaugh: