GUILTY Australia - Andrew, 45, Rose, 44, & Chantelle Rowe, 16, slain, Kapunda, 8 Nov 2010 #2

[Mrs G Norris]

Thank you for that link! I think it was Socrates who stated that some men are born without conscience. I tend to agree.

That website truly rocks for viewing free docos online....they've got flipping everything....

 

[indizio]

Agree, it is unusual for him to be seen repeatedly in the same clothes. And yes mental preoccupation perhaps...or like you said earlier just dismal self esteem..

Maybe that was his favourite T-Shirt, and when ever he took a photo of himself, he would wear it, because he felt most comfortable in it. The fact that he showed up at the memorial in it (with a jacket on) just further provides that it was likely his favourite shirt.

 

[Cyclone82]

The one thing that we all assume is that Mum & Dad were asleep. They were visiting friends in the city and I think that it said in one of the reports that they weren't expect back till the next day. So after everyone has left the party JD comes back to spend the rest of the night with CR ,as a caring boyfriend will do if your girlfriend was sick.
Mum & Dad come home find them in bed together, maybe they were asleep. Dad loses his Cool, neighbour hears the Domestic, man, women screaming. If it was you finding your daughter like that I think you would lose it.
Say dad grabs JD and drags him into the kitchen and starts to slap him around, JD sees the knives in the block and grabs one and goes bersek.
That would explain the cuts on JD because as the blood was getting on the knife it became slippery and his hand was sliding on to the blade. Dad drops to the floor and JD trys to do a runner, Mum confronts him and he takes to her and she goes down. CR comes out of the bedroom and goes hysterical, JD panics and takes the knife to her.
He has time to calm down and tries to make it look like a phycopath sex nutter did it.
He goes to the school, remember the alarm went off, he cleans up there, all schools have fantastic first aid rooms. He could easily hide the knife in the ceiling cavity in the school. He had enough time to clean up and calm down, then go home to wake up to a new day. Possible??

Some of this is not quite right.

The party was on Saturday night. The parents stayed in town at friends that night. The parents returned on Sunday morning sometime. The 3 of them had a roast dinner on Sunday evening according to Police. The crime was committed some time after 11pm Sunday night to approximately 1am Monday morning. [alleged suspect] was also not CR’s boyfriend at the time.

 

[KZ83]

Agree, it is unusual for him to be seen repeatedly in the same clothes. And yes mental preoccupation perhaps...or like you said earlier just dismal self esteem..

I reckon his mum must of bought all his clothes, which he didn't like, so he just wore the same one he did like over and over.

 

[Cyclone82]

I found this comment interesting which he made on his Bebo in a rap song he made up

my sister said its ok to be jealous

I'm not sure how bad the cuts were, but if he spent an hour at the scene after he had killed them, wouldn't the blood have dried? How did he leave blood drops walking away from the scene? Unless it was bloody footprints on the deceased's blood.

This was dicussed a fair bit eariler on in this or the first thread. The reports said that they were bloody footprints and not drops.
I reckon it was the deceased's blood. If there was that much blood it could have been in great big pools which wouldnt necessarily dry quickly. We also do not know what he may have done after they were all dead. He may have just spent more extra time on CR unecessarily stabbing her causing more blood to come out which he could have stepped on and then pretty much left after that. He may not have necessarily spent up to an hout there afterwards, just moving things, trying to clean up or what ever. He could have been doing more things to the bodies when they were dead.

Anything is possible. I personally do not think it happened like that, but truly do not know, however, I think the school alarm going off is quite a coincidence. Maybe that's where he prepped up. And yes, the weapon could have easily been hidden there.

Yeah if you look at the map where his house is, its not far from the school. I remember at my schools they had water tanks and big washing sinks outside etc.

 

[nobody11]

Maybe that was his favourite T-Shirt, and when ever he took a photo of himself, he would wear it, because he felt most comfortable in it. The fact that he showed up at the memorial in it (with a jacket on) just further provides that it was likely his favourite shirt.

All you see of that t-shirt where he was at the shrine is a smigen at the bottom of his jumper, because it is red does not mean it's the same one, maybe his favorite colour is red?

 

[SnifferDog77]

True, not all dangerous killers are loners, but to me, from the past life he hasn't shown that many features of a sociopath. This seemed like a single act in his life - noone has reported things like him lighting fires, killing animals, all that. And a boy's brain is not fully developed at 18 - still growing to 25. Plus, all people continue learn until they are 100, if taught adequately.

Agreed, but no reports of anything does not mean it has not occurred. I just think he has hidden it well. Very well. I do hope you are right, really, for the future of many things. Thank you.

 

[indizio]

I reckon his mum must of bought all his clothes, which he didn't like, so he just wore the same one he did like over and over.

It appears that he had a distaste for his mother, his Bebo mentioned that he liked her best when she was asleep.

It could be that that particular shirt was a gift from someone other than his mother, hence why he likes it.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

It's ok Sniff I take no offense what so ever :innocent:
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just think the kind of things SOME people are basing their idea's on are not relevant. No one not even the victims family have been given many facts because at this point none can be given as it is an ongoing investigation. I am on the fence, I have no idea if he is guilty or innocent. The wonderful thing about this country is you're innocent till proven guilty, well that's the way it is meant to work. I guess I will make an opinion when we have more valid facts. But what I know from being a local I will not condemn someone till there is valid proof. I will not put my own innuendo forth because truly I have no idea what happened in that house on that night nor will I pretend that I do.

this is a crime forum where we discuss cases ... just saying.

 

[KZ83]

No you cannot grow a conscience, no two ways about it, they cannot be saved and will continue to cause harm throughout their lives....

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/psychopath/

awesome movie on the subject you can watch online at link.

I still believe a conscience can be developed, or destroyed by life, by society. The only exception I can see for this is the case of brain damange. And was he using his conscience, or being controlled by mood in this instance??

 

[KZ83]

You're probably talking about Telomeres. I think there's been recent research focusing on them as a tool for measuring age from conception, but it's a fairly new concept (not tried and tested) and doubt it would be used widely in the forensics. Not yet anyway.

Generally it's accepted that you can't determine age from DNA alone. Usually from what i understand, in forensics, analysis is done by analyzing VTNR's (variable tandem number repeats) which are just DNA repeat sequences with the polymerase chain reaction (PCR profiling). Provides a sample unique to an individual and can also determine sex. Can also be used to test genetic relationships between individuals, such as parentage tests .. and so can be used to see if one individual is related to another. They use mitochondrial DNA to test for females, since mitochondrial dna is passed down specifically from mother to child. And they use the Y chromosome to determine father-child relationship, (XX female; XY male).
So it's possible he didn't even have to give his DNA, did he? I don't know. They could have collected from another family member to determine there was a genetic match to the sample found at the scene and to a male in the family. Then it would just be a matter of figuring out who it was, by taking samples from each male in the family, suspect and brother?

Anyway, yea dna can only determine sex of culprit and provide a unique genetic fingerprint for that particular person. Don't know if this has been covered, just thought i'd throw it in there for good measure. I'm doing my MSc in biology and have studied genetics.

This was talked about a little earlier. Someone pointed a clip out about laws in SA, and how DNA had to be on the database, or offered to b considered. Still don't know if this really took into account it could have been taken another way, like u suggest.

 

[indizio]

I still believe a conscience can be developed, or destroyed by life, by society. The only exception I can see for this is the case of brain damange. And was he using his conscience, or being controlled by mood in this instance??

The fact that he shows no remorse for the killings could show one of two things.

First option, he hasn't got a conscience.

Second option, he has quite a strong conscience, but his sense of morals and justice are telling him that what he did was right. If he honestly believes that Chantelle deserved what she got, then yes, he has a conscience, an extremely strong conscience at that. It's just that what he considers to be right and wrong are relying on extra information and feelings of which we can only speculate on.

 

[sbr]

I think the rape came after she had died, I think he thought he would get what was rightfully his.

I liken it to marking his territory and (if true) I think he wanted it to be discovered.

Also he didn't panic when the mother screamed instead he hung around for an hour. You would think one would finish the job quickly so no witnesses, then get the heck out of there in case the cops were called.

 

[sbr]

Yep the dad thing, his mum and new baby brother probably the natural son of the step dad since Downie isn't his dad's name, being geeky, being Scottish in Australia, being from a notorious council estate in Scotland before that, not fitting in anywhere etc etc .. learning difficulties...failing year 9 at what 16, poss even 17 years old! Only having one T-Shirt.....

Somehow I think he had more then one shirt or he wouldn't have been wearing it afterwards!

 

[indizio]

Somehow I think he had more then one shirt or he wouldn't have been wearing it afterwards!

Somehow, I think the one T-Shirt comment was a joke, hence the ellipsis...

 

[sbr]

(I know that was a joke, but it's actually relevent) The fact of the t-shirt(s) or lack of, also say something about him. Can't explain that one, but it's a point of interest. I choose not to elaborate and do not expect others to understand but it is significant to my way of thinking. I think his self-esteem was as low as it could get.

Or poor

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I liken it to marking his territory and (if true) I think he wanted it to be discovered.

Also he didn't panic when the mother screamed instead he hung around for an hour. You would think one would finish the job quickly so no witnesses, then get the heck out of there in case the cops were called.

That's true!! Now that you point that out he was pretty cool calm and collected. Or maybe he just hid low for a few minutes. I wonder if her scream angered him. It's just creepy that he hung in that house afterwards!

 

[sbr]

OK here is something I really wonder...the pic of him and Chantelle from his FB page shows a pretty good looking guy in nice jeans, hair up, filled out, etc. Then there is another side to him that we see now that looks very thin, shabby, etc. Did he take a dive in the last year, I would think that points to some kind of schizoid like deterioration...there were reports he was isolating himself in the last year..or had he just lost interest in taking care of himself, so dropped the grooming?

I was thinking that photo of the two of them was more recent then his profile pic on bebo?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I was thinking that photo of the two of them was more recent then his profile pic on bebo?

Oh yes it is, I was going by what he looked like at the memorial wall.

 

[KZ83]

this is a crime forum where we discuss cases ... just saying.

agree. we are discussing scenarios, to try to make sense, to try to improve our understanding of the world (assume I can talk for a few others). we are not purporting this to be fact.

earlier, we talked about how he could be innocent.