Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #10

[user29]

just reading a review on a "rillington place" book.....see the below quote from am amazon review~

"My late aunt worked in the same office as Christie and found him perfectly pleasant but so unobtrusive that there was little either to like or to dislike about him. When he eventually hit the headlines she was astounded not only by the murders but also that this suave gentleman lived in a dump like Rillington Place"

 

[Grok]

On the subject of Sarah Spiers, I agree that sleuthing possible locations within the context of the new details available is the most important function this forum could perform. I do not think sleuthing every aspect of the current accused individual's life and social circles is going to garner anything of interest beyond feeding morbid curiousity and fuelling fanciful conspiracy theories nor contribute to anything in a substantial way. Leave that process to the police who clearly have their finger on the pulse.

I think the mods do a good job of deleting the superfluous on this site. There are other sites like BF (and more) that are discussing this case in detail and I for one am interested in the detail of BRE. You might not be, so in advance, sorry for any posts that might offend your morals.

 

[AgathasCat]

the co-ords dont go to known linked Gay Street properties. They go to boundary of 14 / 16 Pearce Court Huntingdale. Next block south of known addresses. 250+ metres from most southern known property.

Hi Papertrail, in a nutshell GPS mapping has advanced in leaps and bounds over the decades, and there are multiple versions of coordinate systems and maps... I hope this snippet makes it clearer:

AGD66 and AGD84 are the datums that older maps were printed with. Before the introduction of GDA94, AGD66 was used in NSW, Victoria, Tasmania, and the NT. Meanwhile, Queensland, SA and WA mostly used AGD84. These two datums are almost identical for the purposes of bushwalking - differing by about 5 metres or less.

GDA94 is the new datum which current and future maps will be produced with. This datum produces coordinates which differ by about 200 metres from both AGD66 and AGD84.


Armchair sleuthing via Google Maps uses the latest mapping system and will be out by approx 200+ metres from the coordinates in that link, which refer to a previous datum. If you had access to the AGD84 map, you would likely find the exact location.

 

[janwa]

You just prompted my memory, though very vague. I think there was a rape at Tomato Lake in Belmont hmmm would have been..1990 1991/92. I remember something happened there. I'll see if I can dig it up..

That reminds me of something was it to do with an Asian girl

 

[Grok]

That reminds me of something was it to do with an Asian girl

Re Tomato Lake...Still racking my brain...I searched and couldn't find anything..

To have perfect recall, now wouldn't that be fantastic.

 

[isisaw]

Omg same thing happened to me first in 1996 when I was walking to school near leach hwy, I got flashed by some freak in the bushes it upset me enough and I never walked that way again... police were called etc

Next when I went to uni in 2001 some guy in a white coloured station wagon had a kid in the back told me the buses were on strike and he would give me a lift and I declined and he got a bit insistent there were no buses as they were on strike and I'd be waiting for nothing. Middle of the day during the week. He was in the car and didn't get out. A bus then turned up and I quickly got in. He drove off. The bus driver did confirm there was a strike but buses were just delayed or limited service


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Yeah, it's the most disgusting feeling of violation. I found it more disturbing that my bus route and walking path had obviously been noted by the creep(s) and I had possibly been under surveillance from afar for God knows how long.

I have heard many stories over the years of indecent exposure, attempted rapes along that stretch of Leach Highway from Wilson to Bull Creek, including the "black path" that runs near Rossmoyne SHS and All Saints College. To me, it was blatantly obvious that it was more than likely the same offender who was targeting the school routes and escalating in his crimes.

This man, Michael McGarry - a notorious sexual deviant - was convicted in the District Court in 2004 for raping a 14 year old school girl walking to school. I've always wandered if it was him? Looks like he was operating on the streets at the same time the CSK was --> http://www.mako.org.au/michael_mcgarry.html

Anyway,perhaps this is the same timeline of escalation the CSK followed, culminating into violent sexual assault. I think the devil is in the detail of theoretical earlier crimes, perhaps even pre-dating the 1988 case. Is there a list circulating of reported indecent exposure, sexual assaults or peeping tom cases in Perth . . . even relatively insignificant cases?

Unfortunately, I think that A LOT of things of this nature go unreported. I mean, I never reported the two incidents that happened to me as I thought the police wouldn't believe me or care as I didn't suffer any injuries. I did report it to the school out of concern for other students . . . but they weren't interested either. In hindsight, I really regret it as it may well have been the key to identifying a violent offender. It seems to be that such links and intelligence can be a really important source of data for police investigating leads and patterns in seemingly unrelated matters.

 

[Sillybilly]

Folks, please calm down regarding sub judice. Websleuths has had other Australian trials and we have not had issues, so we don't anticipate a problem with this case either. IF/when a problem arises, Mods/Admin or Tricia will deal with it. The sky is not falling and I don't believe any of you will end up spending a night in an Australian jail for contempt of court :jail:

It is not necessary to use disclaimers in signatures or to overuse the words "alleged" or "allegedly". Just make it clear that it is your opinion (MOO, JMO, IMO ...) or, if you state something as fact, link it up or be prepared to link it up. It is not necessary to constantly be reiterating the presumption of innocence principle. It is standard in any trial we discuss, and is basically a principle for the judicial process. IOW, you can still have an opinion that an accused is innocent or guilty (i.e. "IMO, I sure can't see it being someone other than the accused, but who knows", but don't be proclaiming "Mr. Blah Blah is obviously guilty as sin and there's no two ways about it").

Please note we do not have any VIs in this case. If someone states something as fact without providing a link, or indicate they have inside info or undisclosed sources, the post may be treated as rumor and removed. Members can assign whatever weight they choose to the information, but don't take it as gospel and restate it as fact later in the discussion.

You may refer to an officially named POI/suspect/accused by their name or their initials, or simply refer to them as "the accused" or "the suspect". Note: Regardless of how you feel about the individual, it is against TOS to assign a nickname to case players or to use derogatory terms in place of their name.

Hopefully the above will alleviate some angst and provide some clarification.

 

[petedavo.au]

agree, there seem to be a couple of theories

one - is been a year(ish) the WAPOL may have known
two - recent mentions in press all point to a few weeks

I am subscribing to the few weeks (however that discount the post / theory around how DNA was gathered etc)

The Post article suggests it had something to do with evidence that was rediscovered and finally tested

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[nini83]

Yeah, it's the most disgusting feeling of violation. I found it more disturbing that my bus route and walking path had obviously been noted by the creep(s) and I had possibly been under surveillance from afar for God knows how long.

I have heard many stories over the years of indecent exposure, attempted rapes along that stretch of Leach Highway from Wilson to Bull Creek, including the "black path" that runs near Rossmoyne SHS and All Saints College. To me, it was blatantly obvious that it was more than likely the same offender who was targeting the school routes and escalating in his crimes.

This man, Michael McGarry - a notorious sexual deviant - was convicted in the District Court in 2004 for raping a 14 year old school girl walking to school. I've always wandered if it was him? Looks like he was operating on the streets at the same time the CSK was --> http://www.mako.org.au/michael_mcgarry.html

Anyway,perhaps this is the same timeline of escalation the CSK followed, culminating into violent sexual assault. I think the devil is in the detail of theoretical earlier crimes, perhaps even pre-dating the 1988 case. Is there a list circulating of reported indecent exposure, sexual assaults or peeping tom cases in Perth . . . even relatively insignificant cases?

Unfortunately, I think that A LOT of things of this nature go unreported. I mean, I never reported the two incidents that happened to me as I thought the police wouldn't believe me or care as I didn't suffer any injuries. I did report it to the school out of concern for other students . . . but they weren't interested either. In hindsight, I really regret it as it may well have been the key to identifying a violent offender. It seems to be that such links and intelligence can be a really important source of data for police investigating leads and patterns in seemingly unrelated matters.

I'm pretty sure the flasher looked like him Mcgarry but like you said back then no one cares coz nothing happened to you...it was on the black path this happened

One teacher even said to me the 2nd day after it happened you need to get over it nothing happened to your lucky...


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[isisaw]

I think the mods do a good job of deleting the superfluous on this site. There are other sites like BF (and more) that are discussing this case in detail and I for one am interested in the detail of BRE. You might not be, so in advance, sorry for any posts that might offend your morals.

Indeed they do. I have been lurking on WS and a number of other forums dedicated to unsolved crimes since the early 2000's and WS is right up there with the best in terms of swift moderation. I appreciate that.

I certainly am interested in every facets of BRE's life, just wary of the potential for sleuthing discussion to go down a rabbit hole with no clear objective. As is tradition with so many of the historic CSK threads.

No morals offended!

:shutup:

 

[Grok]

That reminds me of something was it to do with an Asian girl

Re Tomato Lake...Still racking my brain...I searched and couldn't find anything..

To have perfect recall, now wouldn't that be fantastic.

 

[petedavo.au]

i looked for photos of brad but could not find any of him from what i had but i talked to some old work mates and one of them has a bunch of photos and even home vcr of all of us including brad from 1997 he is waiting for his nephew to convert the vcr to dvd or some thing so he can put on the internet he said it should be done by the weekend i told him to join here and he said he will

one person asked what did brad do work wise. he was articulate and well communicated but quiet he did very very well at his job brad specialized in underground and coaxial cabling work he was one of just a handful in the state that was specialized in these areas and did a lot of contract work for mining companies in wa and nt he also did lots of work behind compliance devices like alarm systems for businesses all around wa like i said when it come to his job brad really stood out as some one who new what they were doing and did it very well all our bosses liked him

Any luck on converting the VCR as yet?

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[MsAnais]

Folks, please calm down regarding sub judice. Websleuths has had other Australian trials and we have not had issues, so we don't anticipate a problem with this case either. IF/when a problem arises, Mods/Admin or Tricia will deal with it. The sky is not falling and I don't believe any of you will end up spending a night in an Australian jail for contempt of court :jail: ......

Hopefully the above will alleviate some angst and provide some clarification.

RSBM

I did wonder. We've sleuthed and discussed loads of Australian cases before on here and it's never been an issue when it got to court. Thank you.

 

[Daddy Tas]

Yes I saw that. Obvious DNA linkage finally linking him. Yes I know way back the link bet Karrakatta lady & CG. Me thinks they discounted all Poi`s small & large & thought 'where do we go now?' likely they went back over old evidence gathered. Plus old crimes. Course we know he is linked to the '88 crimes. What I'd like to know is how did he get CG if the cops are darn sure he is linked? And lastly is SS really linked to the other two? They seem pretty sure she is.

Addendum: We don't know anything yet. The State is in the process of gathering their case against him. Let the court process run its course.


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[ApplePie80]

I knew what he was saying was a fanciful tale as I also noted he was wearing a shirt with a tiny local mechanic business logo on it. I knew he was a predator.

By 'local', do you mean to say that you recognised the logo as from around your neighbourhood area or surrounds? What was the business name, and did you ever report this to authorities?

 

[JBA512]

Can anyone that worked for telstra in the late 90's recall what sort of maps were issued to techs?

 

[123sniff]

Papertrail added information to the BRE timeline. Hence the reason it is being posted. Thanks for filling in the gaps.

Hi Grok, firstly thanks for all your hard work on the timeline - amazing job. There is a Post article dated 17/10/2015 which details police making the positive "forensic link" between the KK case and the CSK cases. Perhaps they did not know who the forensic evidence belonged to until a few weeks ago? Is this worth adding to the timeline? I have attached the article for your reference.

I apologise in advance if this is going over old ground

 

[CuriousChum]

On the subject of Sarah Spiers, I agree that sleuthing possible locations within the context of the new details available is the most important function this forum could perform. I do not think sleuthing every aspect of the current accused individual's life and social circles is going to garner anything of interest beyond feeding morbid curiousity and fuelling fanciful conspiracy theories nor contribute to anything in a substantial way. Leave that process to the police who clearly have their finger on the pulse.

An interesting quote (from the article by Grant Taylor I posted above) in regards to the dump sites:
[FONT=&quot]"The location of the body made sense to police. Eglinton was north of where the Mitchell Freeway ended.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jane Rimmer had been dumped near the end of the Kwinana Freeway."

[/FONT]
If this allegedly makes sense to the police, what is the theme of such an MO and how might it relate to possible locations for Sarah Spiers? Did the CSK use land marks or choose certain arterial roads?

On that note, has anyone confirmed any compelling Telstra site links (E.g. telephone exchanges) at the two known dump sites yet (or any other unsolved murder cases on record) yet, as previously discussed?

I mentionee the curious FB post by the accused mentioning the eagles nest. This is located near walyunga np. A telstra exchange is located 6km or so away by backroads. Did the accused hold the girls in isolated telstra exchanges and then dump nearby in fairly isolated places. This is the same for JR it seems perhaps CG. Just a theory...but worth a investigation for SS at least??

 

[isisaw]

Certainly worth investigating as I for one find the psychology behind the choice of dump sites compelling. Excluding a personal familiarity with these areas, it may well be a professional link to these particular sites.

A poster a page or so ago (petedavo) stated that one of his Telstra tech mates suggested it may be worth investigating whether there were hubs (mini exchanges) in these locations in the 1990's. He described them as "brick buildings, no windows, about the size of a large shipping container that Telstra installs in newly developing areas up to 5 years before housing is built."

Of course, there may be no link at all but it would certainly be interesting to see if there is a correlation. Particularly as I believe it was Telstra workers who smelt the decomposition of CG immediately prior to her body being recovered by a young lad from the Yanchep area. This suggests there is a Telstra asset in the immediate vicinity, at least in regards to the Pipidinny Road site.

I will enquire with my Telstra contact what maps were used by technicians at this time.

 

[isisaw]

FYI: An interesting publication on serial murders in the context of Australia by Susan Pinto and Paul R Wilson from the Australian Institute of Criminology for those interested in the characteristics of serial murder in the Australian setting.

http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi_pdf/tandi025.pdf