Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #11

[Gecko100]

Thanks Gecko100, but the doco I'm referring to was from a long time ago. I've tried to find it but it may not even be available online. I have seen the program you refer to, Vaknin was very hard to watch!

Hey 123sniff, wasn't he horrid? This show includes the stuff you were talking about in psychopaths being able to spot victims by the way they walk, they actually used a number of women walking away so only their back view was visible, there was only one victim and he picked her. Too uncanny.
He was monstrous and he hid his manipulations etc. while the cameras were filming, but as soon as it stopped he turned into a monster.

 

[user29]

(modsnip)


Handbag is important - item shown by police. (Fact)
CCTV footage is important - shown by police, has been edited, has MM in it - is open to interpretation.

Seems i am always defending sleuthing th4evideo - its an important artifact that deserves the interest. Personally i think that this is more interesting than guessing where a body is !

We are all different here - and we all find different aspects of this interesting - i am obviously keen for the analysis and frames of the video, each to their own.

 

[Mazfrank]

Here's a list for you...

Where was he working in the 90s (specfically)
Where did he hang out
Who were his friends
Did he have access to a building in Claremont
Did he have any other relationships
Create a list of all the cars he has owned

For a start, which should keep you busy for a while..

Only fact no theory

I don't think there has been many people who have come forward as his 'friend', acquaintances, but not friends... was he a loner... not that that's bad... did anyone know him?

He seems to portray a social side, but hates his pic taken, keeps his computer stuff as secret as possible... I just wonder if his parents have ever had an 'ah-ha' moment.. or his wives for that matter.

I remember in an earlier thread a guy who worked with him in Kalgoorlie (on a Telstra job), when a woman disappeared the same night after BRE didn't want to join his colleague for a drink, saying he teased him that BRE must have been responsible- to which he didn't take kindly. How many people interacted with him just after 'events', who might now be having an 'ah-ha' that makes sense moment.

Moreover-when do you think the proper trial will start... will it be years?


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[Sutton]

Just a thought didn't WAPOL determine time of death from JR's watch because it stopped during the attack. So does that then add credit to the blitz attack or does it mean once coerced in to car the attack began to disable her and watch was broken as she held her hands up in defence. If you were sitting in a passenger seat your hands would be only form of defence where if you were blitzed standing up you would be using your feet kicking to break away. JMO.

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Where's this info from? They found her watch after they found her body, so that's at least eight weeks from when she was killed. I am not aware of the fact that they determined time of death from her watch. We don't know if it was a wind-up watch, if the glass was shattered, if it stopped working from being in the rain, etc.

Can anyone provide a source for this?

(Links related to the watch:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12476716#post12476716)

 

[Grok]

Thought you had all that which is in part why I went kind of lateral

I'm not the gatekeeper of fact. I'm just the editor of a document. There's so much more to be added.

 

[Mazfrank]

I'm not the gatekeeper of fact. I'm just the editor of a document. There's so much more to be added.

Pleeeeassse add [emoji846]


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[MyLeftFoot]

If you want to see something interesting (well I think it is)..Check out the guy standing directly under the camera at the door (23: 58: 46 on the timestamp) At the same time, Jane is on the road with her back to us, looking down to Gugeri.

Then when the man in stripes leaves the hotel, the camera switches back to a door shot. Now watch that guy..he seems to have something white in his back pocket so he's easy to pick. Take it frame by frame as he makes his way over to Jane..they both have a quick chat (very quick) and then watch Janes body language afterwards...very interesting!

 

[petedavo.au]

As it stands there is only DNA evidence and car fibre evidence that could match thousands of other cars, trial by judge with proposal of any reasonable doubt seems a far easier avenue to me.

There is no accountability for the career of a jury member if they make the wrong call, there is for a judge who wrongly improsions someone who is subsequently cleared, which is why they are less likely to find someone guilty if there is even the smallest semebelence of doubt.

oh and welcome aboard, glad to have you here.

Yeah, agreed was going to say same, because a Jury can be given direction by a Judge but really very rarely follow those directions, and on a case that will face chain of custody issues....

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[Mazfrank]

If you want to see something interesting (well I think it is)..Check out the guy standing directly under the camera at the door (23: 58: 46 on the timestamp) At the same time, Jane is on the road with her back to us, looking down to Gugeri.

Then when the man in stripes leaves the hotel, the camera switches back to a door shot. Now watch that guy..he seems to have something white in his back pocket so he's easy to pick. Take it frame by frame as he makes his way over to Jane..they both have a quick chat (very quick) and then watch Janes body language afterwards...very interesting!

I've looked at the footage many times on YouTube.. just wondering, is there a better link? How can I do frame by frame on YouTube or do I need to pull it into another program [emoji846] thanks... sorry for asking remedial questions [emoji4]


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[troumye]

I actually agree with Harluna Steroids, where he played his footy or who he was in a relationship with at the time has no relevance with the crimes committed, as a friend of the brother of one of the girls murdered, the family was pestered with nutjobs early in the piece with allsorts of theories about the murders, mainly clairvoyants and psychics.

I think everything on a CSK's timeline is relative until categorically ruled out by courts as irrelevant or has no bearing on the case. IMO nothing can be ruled out at this stage.

 

[Sutton]

I've looked at the footage many times on YouTube.. just wondering, is there a better link? How can I do frame by frame on YouTube or do I need to pull it into another program [emoji846] thanks... sorry for asking remedial questions [emoji4]


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You have to download it and pull the frames with another program.

 

[Mazfrank]

You have to download it and pull the frames with another program.

Cheers thanks [emoji4]


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[MyLeftFoot]

I've looked at the footage many times on YouTube.. just wondering, is there a better link? How can I do frame by frame on YouTube or do I need to pull it into another program [emoji846] thanks... sorry for asking remedial questions [emoji4]
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Well the same footage could be on the other versions..but to go frame by frame just put your mouse on the start button and click to stop and start.

 

[lsdmongre]

Here's a good time line of events. Sorry if this has been posted previously.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-16/claremont-serial-killer-timeline/6860718

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[ShellyGale]

All the articles I've seen where neighbours and friends seem to say the same thing, that he was very quiet, never shared much but a really nice bloke. Snowtown killers were arrested in 99, one plead guilty and was sentenced in 2001. Verdicts for the rest weren't handed down until 2003. I imagine the same time frame roughly for BE but anything could happen between now and then I suppose. He might cut a deal, plead it. Or he could kill himself first opportunity he gets.

I can't get a real read on his personality because what neighbours and friends say doesn't really feel right. It's surprised me we haven't heard from more people where he's tried to pick someone up and missed etc., Interesting someone disappeared when he was in Kalgoorlie, I hope the police are looking into that one as well.

I don't think there has been many people who have come forward as his 'friend', acquaintances, but not friends... was he a loner... not that that's bad... did anyone know him?

He seems to portray a social side, but hates his pic taken, keeps his computer stuff as secret as possible... I just wonder if his parents have ever had an 'ah-ha' moment.. or his wives for that matter.

I remember in an earlier thread a guy who worked with him in Kalgoorlie (on a Telstra job), when a woman disappeared the same night after BRE didn't want to join his colleague for a drink, saying he teased him that BRE must have been responsible- to which he didn't take kindly. How many people interacted with him just after 'events', who might now be having an 'ah-ha' that makes sense moment.

Moreover-when do you think the proper trial will start... will it be years?


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[GreenE]

Here's a list for you...

Where was he working in the 90s (specfically)
Where did he hang out
Who were his friends
Did he have access to a building in Claremont
Did he have any other relationships
Create a list of all the cars he has owned

For a start, which should keep you busy for a while..

Only fact no theory

Yeah I think some discussions on this thread have descended into over-exuberant pursuit of proving theories that cannot possibly be tested from the facts currently available.

From what I've read so far we have
Working>Telstra (various possible locations)
Hang Out> Claremont (allegedly), Huntingdale
Friends> ?
Buildings> ?
Relationships> Wife (likely ex)
Cars> access to Telstra vehicles including at least 1995 Holden Commodore VS s1

Looking pretty slim on answers I've gotta say.

I would add
What was his actual position in 1995/96?
What sports clubs/groups etc was he a member of?

 

[lsdmongre]

Where's this info from? They found her watch after they found her body, so that's at least eight weeks from when she was killed. I am not aware of the fact that they determined time of death from her watch. We don't know if it was a wind-up watch, if the glass was shattered, if it stopped working from being in the rain, etc.

Can anyone provide a source for this?

(Links related to the watch:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12476716#post12476716)

I have tried to find where I read this may have been on another thread or News media does anyone else remember reading about this? I could be wrong and I apologise in advance if I am. [emoji4]

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[lsdmongre]

If you want to see something interesting (well I think it is)..Check out the guy standing directly under the camera at the door (23: 58: 46 on the timestamp) At the same time, Jane is on the road with her back to us, looking down to Gugeri.

Then when the man in stripes leaves the hotel, the camera switches back to a door shot. Now watch that guy..he seems to have something white in his back pocket so he's easy to pick. Take it frame by frame as he makes his way over to Jane..they both have a quick chat (very quick) and then watch Janes body language afterwards...very interesting!

Are you able to post screen shots as I can't seem to see what you are discussing on the cctv

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[jessicalouise]

The talk of steroids has come up as a continuation of trying to figure out what kind of a person BE is and what his interests were. (Was he interested in football then? Did he go to the gym? Did he take pride in his appearance? Was he the sort of guy who could gain a girl's trust with some ease, or not?) Since we only have some photographs to go by and a minimal internet footprint well, it's natural to speculate and tease out theories. Of course, none of us know the truth and no one will until it comes out in the press. If it ever does.

None of us know what motivated the CSK to do what he did. But damn if we arent intrigued enough to try and figure out or speculate why. I wouldnt read too much into it. To have an actual accused has been a long time coming. *shrug* It can be easy to get carried away.

I do think the biggest thing we're trying to figure out and would like the answer to is if he gained their trust somehow to get them in a car or it was a straight out blitz attack. Or a combo of both.

 

[Mazfrank]

Well the same footage could be on the other versions..but to go frame by frame just put your mouse on the start button and click to stop and start.

Another thought... and I would have thought the same... god the stupid things we do as teenagers and 20,s.

I've just done it... and not being much older than JR I watched every screen shot. I don't have an ending, but I can relate to what she's doing in the video. Might be non relevant. Frame by frame, I can see myself in the same situation. And I have been, it would appear to me and IMO, she's not waiting for a cab, you see if you're a young woman waiting for a cab, you're gonna get a bit antsy... where's the cab, how bloody long does it take... my god hurry up!... you'd be looking down the street and in front of the venue. but she's more like... heeeey! I'm just waiting out the front in the hopes I'll catch a glimpse of a guy I met in the bar who was cute... if I'm all alone, maybe he won't feel so threatened and approach me... he's sort of cute... that's why I ditched my mates in the hopes of some romance.. I'll give them a story that I'm tired etc.. but in reality I've seen a guy who is cute and I'm going to see if he's keen...I'll just stand out the front making it look like I'm waiting for someone... I'm not desperate, I'm fine.. my ride will be here soon... just act cool... you're cool no one knows how unpracticed and out of place you feel, besides, no one cares. Then MM comes into the screen... She's acting all cool - she smiles at MM, maybe he's the one she want to hit on her... I mean look at her smile for him! Hey! You! Right so I have just made out I'm totally fine and waiting for someone... but the MM steps in... she may have thought him cute. Omg he's acknowledged me! Yes! Here I am, all savvy and stuff, ready to get a cab or ride home.. and then MM it in front of me... my head (he's cute, hope he offers me a lift), they may have briefly spoken at the bar, exchanged looks... but now he's here! With that big smile he may have said.. 'you're still waiting?' Her... yep.. him 'pick you up in a minute'... she waits.. he gets his car, picks her up, maybe even after she walks away from the entrance of the pub... she jumps in the car... etc....


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