Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #11

[Harluna]

Well 'Harluna' opinion was helpful.... said no one ever. Why can't people just share an opinion, maybe an angle we haven't thought about, rather than criticise a forum they clearly 'registered' to comment in. Grrrrr [emoji30]


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Yeah, let's talk about how steroids magically turned someone into a psychopath, debate about terminology relating to a handbag, and about whether MM is BRE. Because all of those things are totally relevant to the case and mean something...

 

[jubillee]

I think that Old mate Harluna is having a bad day and going about things the wrong way here. We have had a large influx of new posters which is actually a good thing. New faces new ideas etc....And all forums need new posters to keep from going stale. Some of the problem is that they are a tad excited about the arrest and getting a bit carried away with their theories and even getting a wee bit bossy at times. Some of the posts are even like b grade novels lol .. But hey its their first time at the rodeo so to speak so lets all support each other and rather than knock our newbies lets help them along and show encouragement.. Help them to understand the best way to "sleuth" etc. It will all work out in the end anyway,

 

[Mazfrank]

Yeah, let's talk about how steroids magically turned someone into a psychopath, debate about terminology relating to a handbag, and about whether MM is BRE. Because all of those things are totally relevant to the case and mean something...

I don't believe anyone said if BRE took steroids that must be the reason he committed a crime (if he did), I think the point is - for a person with altered brain functions, issues, mental illness - whatever it was - if he took steroids 'if' just a theory thrown out there like the rest, it could have made him even more unstable. Don't bag people out for having an opinion you don't agree with. Someone here might fall on an avenue not yet tested, that could be useful. If you don't like people's openness to share 'their opinions', why did you register. And as for naming certain members, that not really fair or respectful.


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[Mazfrank]

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Please let's all ignore the " person " in here to stir up trouble and distract us from what we are trying to do. The second one in about 24 hours, (sigh) put the "road cones" up to signify "hole" and continue to post around him/her, not to him/her. Acknowledging by answering insults gives oxygen.

Just a question, if they do have a court hearing with jury, does that mean anyone who's talked in this forum cannot take part? Was thinking it today. As much as I would like to be on the jury (as probably many to get justice for the victims and families, if that's what the evidence determines) are people in this forum blocked from doing so, as they have discussed and theorised scenarios? In saying I'd like to be a juror, I will also say I couldn't do it... I don't think I could listen to the story.


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[Biggus]

Just a question, if they do have a court hearing with jury, does that mean anyone who's talked in this forum cannot take part? Was thinking it today. As much as I would like to be on the jury (as probably many to get justice for the victims and families, if that's what the evidence determines) are people in this forum blocked from doing so, as they have discussed and theorised scenarios? In saying I'd like to be a juror, I will also say I couldn't do it... I don't think I could listen to the story.


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If I were his counsel and I knew you'd been on this forum I'd move to have you excluded. Not just you, everyone here including myself.

 

[Moustachio]

If I were his counsel and I knew you'd been on this forum I'd move to have you excluded. Not just you, everyone here including myself.

Agree, but you wouldn't know, though. You don't get to quiz them. You might get asked some generic questions by the Judge about whether you could be objective. I think if Rainey got a Judge-only trial, the CSK will. I agree with an earlier poster that I wouldn't be happy about that as a Defendant - lots of 'bogan dunces' on juries who are lost after 'hello'. Judge-alone trials are fair and efficient.

 

[stirling hwy]

I actually agree with Harluna Steroids, where he played his footy or who he was in a relationship with at the time has no relevance with the crimes committed, as a friend of the brother of one of the girls murdered, the family was pestered with nutjobs early in the piece with allsorts of theories about the murders, mainly clairvoyants and psychics.

 

[Mazfrank]

Agree, but you wouldn't know, though. You don't get to quiz them. You might get asked some generic questions by the Judge about whether you could be objective. I think if Rainey got a Judge-only trial, the CSK will. I agree with an earlier poster that I wouldn't be happy about that as a Defendant - lots of 'bogan dunces' on juries who are lost after 'hello'. Judge-alone trials are fair and efficient.

So does that mean if any of 'us' (love being a part of the team), should tell them we're part of this? Or shut our mouths and hope for the best [emoji1]


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[ShellyGale]

I was joking.

Ohh wow... obscessed much?


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[ShellyGale]

Okay, what is relevant then?

I actually agree with Harluna Steroids, where he played his footy or who he was in a relationship with at the time has no relevance with the crimes committed, as a friend of the brother of one of the girls murdered, the family was pestered with nutjobs early in the piece with allsorts of theories about the murders, mainly clairvoyants and psychics.

 

[Biggus]

Agree, but you wouldn't know, though. You don't get to quiz them. You might get asked some generic questions by the Judge about whether you could be objective. I think if Rainey got a Judge-only trial, the CSK will. I agree with an earlier poster that I wouldn't be happy about that as a Defendant - lots of 'bogan dunces' on juries who are lost after 'hello'. Judge-alone trials are fair and efficient.

I would imagine that defence counsel would be able to quiz prospective jurors on whether they had participated in or followed conversations about the case on social media. I would have thought that would have been one of the first things to check. Perhaps a questionnaire early in the selection process?

 

[Gecko100]

I wish I could remember what doco it was because it was a real eye-opener. They only showed the women from the neck down, so the SK's were not reading facial expressions. When the criminologists replayed the women walking in slo-mo and presented the differences, they were barely discernible, such as a slight difference in the positioning of the shoulders, how they moved their hands when walking etc.
That's not to say a person who carries themselves with confidence is not at risk of attack, probably just less so.

I think it was the program 'I Psychopath'... Sam Vaknin traveled to a number of countries to see if the medical profession would assess him as the psychopath he is. He was truly horrible and lied about everything. He is married and as far as I know has committed no major crimes. You can read about him at his website. He is highly narcissistic and knows 'everything'. The Aussie producer of the show was quite affected by Vaknin's behaviour.
He was diagnosed psychopath in every country he visited.

 

[MrsNathanDrake]

I would imagine that defence counsel would be able to quiz prospective jurors on whether they had participated in or followed conversations about the case on social media. I would have thought that would have been one of the first things to check. Perhaps a questionnaire early in the selection process?

They do for lesser cases but I think everyone I know has had *something* to say about the case on FB. It would be like asking "have you heard of the Claremont Serial Killings?"

I think the questions are more likely to be related to whether potential jurors have any theories of their own, have had a family member or friend who has been murdered, raped or abducted, whether they have been involved in Little Athletics, whether they have a child the same age/era as the girls. Things that are more likely to draw a bias

 

[lampformypath]

Just a question, if they do have a court hearing with jury, does that mean anyone who's talked in this forum cannot take part? Was thinking it today. As much as I would like to be on the jury (as probably many to get justice for the victims and families, if that's what the evidence determines) are people in this forum blocked from doing so, as they have discussed and theorised scenarios? In saying I'd like to be a juror, I will also say I couldn't do it... I don't think I could listen to the story.


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Not a lawyer so can't answer this Mazfrank, but someone on here with that knowledge will I'm sure.Yes, disgusting "story" but can you imagine the pictures? It's just too horrible and so terribly sad and heartbreaking for the families of the poor defenceless girls. But I'd say every household in WA has had on-going discussions about it for the past 20 years, we can only hope if there is a jury they are prepared for long and extremely harrowing trial (And I've done jury duty on manslaughter case so I know like others on here, many of those picked are completely disinterested, and just want to go home/back to work, though this case is much higher profile of course! ) Let's all pray for a fair and just outcome!

 

[123sniff]

I think it was the program 'I Psychopath'... Sam Vaknin traveled to a number of countries to see if the medical profession would assess him as the psychopath he is. He was truly horrible and lied about everything. He is married and as far as I know has committed no major crimes. You can read about him at his website. He is highly narcissistic and knows 'everything'. The Aussie producer of the show was quite affected by Vaknin's behaviour.
He was diagnosed psychopath in every country he visited.

Thanks Gecko100, but the doco I'm referring to was from a long time ago. I've tried to find it but it may not even be available online. I have seen the program you refer to, Vaknin was very hard to watch!

 

[Questions123]

So in light of some new theories which include vested guy could it be possible that MM was never inside the establishment? Perhaps he dressed like he had been out but really waited until closing time to stalk his prey? It makes sense to me why they havent been able to identify him because he wasnt there? Surely a friend or someone wouldve mentioned him to police years ago. Maybe that is the best cctv they have of him hence the appeal they may not have a frontal image of him period.

If Jane was catching up with vested guy after work wouldnt there have been some video footage of him communicating with her even just to say meet me at the carpark etc. Its like she sees him no verbal communication then she disappears.

 

[Mazfrank]

Not a lawyer so can't answer this Mazfrank, but someone on here with that knowledge will I'm sure.Yes, disgusting "story" but can you imagine the pictures? It's just too horrible and so terribly sad and heartbreaking for the families of the poor defenceless girls. But I'd say every household in WA has had on-going discussions about it for the past 20 years, we can only pray if there is a jury they are prepared for long and extremely harrowing trial (And I've done jury duty on manslaughter case so I know like others on here, many of those picked are completely disinterested, and just want to go home/back to work, though this case is much higher profile of course! ) Let's all pray for a fair and just outcome!

I agree, I have followed that case because it's heartbreaking, close to home and also JR lost her life on my daughters 5th birthday. At the time I was married to a man who was an RAC man, they were also heavily under suspicion at one point. It upset me so badly I use to ask him questions to see if he was involved. I was depressed at losing my parents earlier in the year and not thinking straight. But every year from my daughters birthday, I think.... all the days she's got to enjoy life are equal to all the years JR didn't have... and should have... so many what ifs....I often think of the girls families... one day for the public hearing or being reminded of this case can't be anywhere near as torturous as it has been for the families and friends.


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[lsdmongre]

I think you'll find that JR was not planning to go to the conti that evening. She had phoned her brother and asked him to go to the movies with her and he said no. She then apparently decided to meet some friends st the last minute. If they knew each other at all they met that night or it was a coincidence they'd met at an earlier stage rather than being planned.

Come to think of it if she had something ongoing with a staff member at the conti this would have been her first choice of venue, certainly not the movies with her brother. Upshot being if there was some kind of arrangement made to meet anyone it had to be made that night not before. I know she's checking her watch but I've seen many people do this in the situation she was in by herself outside a night spot. Acting like you're waiting for someone is better than look at me I'm here hoping a guy will talk to me all alone. The present day version of this is pretending to check your phone.

Just a thought didn't WAPOL determine time of death from JR's watch because it stopped during the attack. So does that then add credit to the blitz attack or does it mean once coerced in to car the attack began to disable her and watch was broken as she held her hands up in defence. If you were sitting in a passenger seat your hands would be only form of defence where if you were blitzed standing up you would be using your feet kicking to break away. JMO.

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[Grok]

Okay, what is relevant then?

Here's a list for you...

Where was he working in the 90s (specfically)
Where did he hang out
Who were his friends
Did he have access to a building in Claremont
Did he have any other relationships
Create a list of all the cars he has owned

For a start, which should keep you busy for a while..

Only fact no theory

 

[ShellyGale]

Thought you had all that which is in part why I went kind of lateral

Here's a list for you...

Where was he working in the 90s (specfically)
Where did he hang out
Who were his friends
Did he have access to a building in Claremont
Did he have any other relationships
Create a list of all the cars he has owned

For a start, which should keep you busy for a while..

Only fact no theory