Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #11

[BReVeTTe]

I completely agree *cough*username*cough*. And as others have pointed out, BRE wasn't sinking huge amounts of money into up-to-the-minute gaming computers and mods and accessories. And he wasn't locked away in the dark playing games for days, his Little Athletics commitments saw him out in the fresh air and sunshine, interacting with people.


Again, I totally agree. I've seen people here saying he looks like the type because of his lips. Just because you think he has a pretty mouth, doesn't mean he wants to be a woman. It's just mind boggling that people would think that way. Or a pic of him with hands on hips. I didn't realise it was possible to know so much about a persons sexual kicks from a photo.

I do wonder whether issues of masculinity come into the CSKs attacks if it is BRE, but only because his 'career' started as sexual assaults then escalated, and sex crimes are usually about power and dominance (traditionally masculine characteristics), not sex. Plus the fact that BRE never fathered a child with either partner despite appearing to not have any issue with children (volunteers in kids sport and raised a (step)daughter who continued to see him despite no obligation to). The stealing of women's clothing could go either way. Sure, it could be in order to access women's clothing for cross dressing. Or it could be a power and dominance thing again, taking personal items against their will, knowing what they smell like, making victims feel vulnerable etc. Or it could just be because pretty ladies excite him and the clothes are something tangible that help with his fantasies.

i believe it was I who said - in response to the Q of what was your first thought at seeing a photo of the accused for the first time, that i was struck by his size, the feminine appearance of cheeks, with a butter wouldn't melt in its mouth, pouty little smile. I said I thought he looked insipid. FULL STOP
It was my honest answer to the question posed, and in my own defense, it was other users who followed up, turning him into him being some effeminate, kinky, cross-dressing, freak with sexual preferences, who wanted to be a woman
I think my ability to express my opinion is guarded and above average, whereas the the reading comprehension and subsequent responses made by some on here leaves me wishing I simply hadn't bothered.



[emoji887]

 

[MrsNathanDrake]

Would I just be able to ask of our legal minds on here a question: Will the accused lawyer have access to ALL the DNA/and any other current evidence WAPOL have on BRE NOW before the trial? And if WAPOL come up with additional NEW evidence, do WAPOL have to present it BEFORE the trial or can they submit "surprise" new evidence DURING the trial? Just been going through my head that if this is such a "watertight"/unwinnable case (or is there no such thing?) why would a prominent lawyer like SVD bother to take on the case? Thanks in advance.

Yes, anything the prosecution (or defence, for that matter) plan to introduce during the trial is 'discoverable', to use the legal term. The idea is that whichever side 'wins' does so because they were right, not because they were able to trick or bamboozle the other side.

And to answer your second question- ego. Ive worked for enough lawyers to know that it's the second strongest driving force after money. And the big players already have plenty of that

Edit: they can also have access to things that aren't being introduced by the other side, if it's important to their case. For example, if WAPOL had some forensic tests done on the victims that showed other people's DNA but not BREs DNA, obviously the prosecution wouldn't introduce those as evidence, but the defence could request them in what's known as a discovery list, because they're important to their case, and the judge can decide that they're either discoverable or non discoverable. Usually non discoverable items relate to things like financial transactions and personal correspondence, so they might say you can have an excerpt of how much was transferred from the other persons bank account into your account but you can't have their whole January bank statement. Or you can't have the Christmas card they wrote their mother, even though you think it indicates their mental state.

 

[TheSecondLaw]

Agree, it's a long shot...worth a quick poke around..even if an item of interest is found, it will be another piece of the puzzle.

If you do go and have a look, sincerely good luck to you! Looking for personal effects are an even smaller needle in an even larger haystack than a victim. If items known to be with the victims were taken by a perpetrator, then there's a high chance that they were (and still are) sequestered. Perhaps most notably is the sunflower broach belonging to SS; IMO It's either still hidden somewhere (public land or private property), in the bottom of a rubbish tip or melted down to be remade into new jewellery.

Perhaps in light of recent events something has already been located. It's easy to ignore the likeliness of the large amount of things the WAPOL would know, that us general public don't even know that we don't know.

Under what circumstances would it be beneficial to the case for WAPOL to not reveal that something known to the public to be missing has already been found?

 

[AlwaysCurious77]

18-year-old woman indecently assaulted in her sleep during break-in at a Gay Street, Huntingdale home

Is this confirmed somewhere? It's the first time I have seen the street name given.

I would love to know more about the Perth office BRE is said to have worked out of.

I posed this earlier but noone replied. If you watch the CIA CCTV footage from one of the camera angles it looks like there is a car in front of the hotel. You can see the wheels and its shape. People walk in front of it. From the other angle it just isn't there, but there's nothing else there to explain why it looks like a car from the other camera angle? The best shot of it is at 39:25 in the HayleyJane youtube clip. I would love to know what others think.

 

[Ruffy1976]

I'll have a look at that. Who knows how he got his work orders so might not of went to a office

 

[meticulously]

Is this confirmed somewhere? It's the first time I have seen the street name given.
.

Rumor no fact imo


.

 

[ambit]

Hello from a new poster, I have been reading through ALL of the posts over the past three weeks. I would like to bring up a few points. I was a member of WAPOL from 1986-2001, never having any dealings with the MACRO task force. I was doing country service during the relevant time,

1. <modsnip>

2. Has anyone any thoughts on there being male victims as well? Having looked through the lists of missing people in W.A., N.T, and S.A. of males during the past twenty years, there are MORE males than females. Several matching the known M.O. /

3. The surveillance of L.W., The Police went to the Parliament and asked for additional money to continue surveillance. They would have has to have sufficient cause to justify the 10 million dollars they were allocated. Although we are unaware of there reasoning it must have been apparently solid as they were successful.

<modsnip>

 

[TheSecondLaw]

Rumor no fact imo

.

Agreed on it being rumour. It's the first I've read anything more specific about the 1988 attack than just the suburb. Looking at Gay St in the 1985 Landgate photos, there's only about ten houses on the whole street, depending on where it was considered to start and end at the time.

 

[pauldking]

Hello from a new poster, I have been reading through ALL of the posts over the past three weeks. I would like to bring up a few points. I was a member of WAPOL from 1986-2001, never having any dealings with the MACRO task force. I was doing country service during the relevant time,

1. <modsnip>

2. Has anyone any thoughts on there being male victims as well? Having looked through the lists of missing people in W.A., N.T, and S.A. of males during the past twenty years, there are MORE males than females. Several matching the known M.O. /

3. The surveillance of L.W., The Police went to the Parliament and asked for additional money to continue surveillance. They would have has to have sufficient cause to justify the 10 million dollars they were allocated. Although we are unaware of there reasoning it must have been apparently solid as they were successful.

<modsnip>

In reference to number 2 I was thinking of Eric Edgar Cooke's terrorising Perth for a few years and how completely unpredictable he was. Everyone has their own bag of lollies but here we have a guy drinking lemonade on the porch after sticking someone. He killed both sexes. Nobody picked it. Irrespective of any influence the Night Caller could have had on CSK it did cross my mind that he could be doing the same thing adapting to opportunity...

 

[jessicalouise]

Long time lurker, first time poster...I've seen this reference to goth music or dark music before, and after looking at his music likes I had a little laugh as some of it is not so different to my own. I grew up in the western suburbs, went to school in the western suburbs, partied in the western suburbs.. cott, OBH, cagneys (as the conti was called in my underage drinking days), club bay view, the swannie, Steve's, silver slipper, uwa tavern and on and on the list goes... I am the same vintage as BRE... and I can tell you that bands like the Cure were highly popular and not really considered gothic (they actually started in the late 70s punk era), often were played at the venues listed. The Cure actually made it into the Top 20 in Australia in the 80s, so I would actually call them mainstream.. and they were... not enough goths in Australia to get any band into the Top 20! I think you are looking for things in his music taste that just aren't there... they were very much part of popular culture and very much a part of popular culture in the western suburbs and beyond. The only one that stands out to me is Simply Red lol... To be honest, I've never understood the view that anything "goth" was suspicious... I was never a goth by any means, but they were always part of the alternative/indy music scene and on the periphery of many of my circles of friends. Like all subcultures, goths were often considered a little strange, and there were probably 1 or 2 bad eggs just like within any group but I don't think being a goth or liking goth music really means anything about an individual's propensity to commit horrific acts

Oh no, i completely agree! I can safetly say that i myself adore The Cure and many of my friends are into the same sort of music. BUT ... that music does tap into and relects mood. Which is fine if you're like us and dont have any homicidal tendencies, but feels like another piece of the puzzle if you are homicidally inclined.

I remember back in the day bands like Marilyn Manson and Metallica were accused of inciting, er, for lack of a better term homicidal tendencies. Now, that is a ridiculous notion. But i think it is quite telling that someone *that* way inclined would be drawn to that kind of music as opposed to something more poppy and vapid.

 

[meticulously]

Edited. newspaper clipping
Source ws#papertrail
: theories could hinder the hunt

.

 

[jessicalouise]

Right with you on that! There's something a bit affected about him, I can just see him mincing about in pink frillies in front of the mirror. Which almost reminds me of the Buffalo Bill dance scene in Silence of the Lambs. Erm .. he was wearing a kimono. omg.

Interesting. I have worked with men who have been secretly into crossdressing. As in, wearing women's undergarments. And to be quite honest to look at them i would have never picked it. They came across as masculine but not OVERLY so, they were big men, they were sexual and had high sex drives. But there actually wasnt much that was effeminate about them, to be honest. They just liked the way the fabric felt against their skin and the "naughtiness" involved. Also interesting to note is they were married with children.

There have been ~rumours~ floating around about crossdressing and CSK but make no mistake, a man crossdressing does not make them effeminate in any way and does not mark them out to those who wouldnt know otherwise as anything other than an ordinary guy.

 

[petedavo.au]

Would I just be able to ask of our legal minds on here a question: Will the accused lawyer have access to ALL the DNA/and any other current evidence WAPOL have on BRE NOW before the trial? And if WAPOL come up with additional NEW evidence, do WAPOL have to present it BEFORE the trial or can they submit "surprise" new evidence DURING the trial? Just been going through my head that if this is such a "watertight"/unwinnable case (or is there no such thing?) why would a prominent lawyer like SVD bother to take on the case? Thanks in advance.

Disclosure is covered in The Criminal Investigations Act 2006 https://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/main_mrtitle_225_homepage.html

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[jessicalouise]

The continued reference to him being a cross dresser could be related to this man, Canadian Colonel Russell Williams, who initially started out stealing women's underwear from clothes lines, took pics of himself and masturbated. He moved onto breaking into girl's homes and sexually assaulting them, he murdered 2 women before being caught. He was married and a decorated military pilot who had flown the Queen and Prince Phillip among other dignitaries in Airforce Vip aircraft.
Again the common theme, least likely....

If you open the link be prepared to see a 'studly' man in woman's underwear.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...r/news-story/aa82052d06bc7668ce3de1d5e9543d5b

We can imagine with all probability that BRE did the same. No way does it malign other cross dressers who buy their own garments, it's a fetish and serial killers have been known for worse fetishes than cross dressing, as in keeping body parts etc.

The thing i find most intriguing about crossdressing is not men actually wearing underwear or clothing designated for women, but how it can play out in terms of fantasies. It's a ... for lack of a better word ... interest that can easily escalate in different directions depending on the person's frame of mind. Sexual fantasies themselves can escalate for certain people more so than for other people. Things that can go from something that's not the norm but harmless to downright degenerate depending on the sort of person you are.

Personally i have no strong inkling to whether he was or not. And it would only be of relevance if his sexual peccadilloes related to the case (as in, if clothing or underwear were worn during or linked to the murders.)

 

[lampformypath]

Disclosure is covered in The Criminal Investigations Act 2006 https://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/main_mrtitle_225_homepage.html

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Thanks so much petedavo, sorry if it was a bleeding obvious question, but I'm just curious about the legal process.

 

[CuriousChum]

Right with you on that! There's something a bit affected about him, I can just see him mincing about in pink frillies in front of the mirror. Which almost reminds me of the Buffalo Bill dance scene in Silence of the Lambs. Erm .. he was wearing a kimono. omg.

II had given thought that maybe he dressed as a woman and offered lifts to the girls.

 

[jessicalouise]

II had given thought that maybe he dressed as a woman and offered lifts to the girls.

Maybe dismiss that thought. He would not make a very convincing female from the images we've seen. Crossdressing is not about looking like a female.

 

[lampformypath]

Yes, anything the prosecution (or defence, for that matter) plan to introduce during the trial is 'discoverable', to use the legal term. The idea is that whichever side 'wins' does so because they were right, not because they were able to trick or bamboozle the other side.

And to answer your second question- ego. Ive worked for enough lawyers to know that it's the second strongest driving force after money. And the big players already have plenty of that

Edit: they can also have access to things that aren't being introduced by the other side, if it's important to their case. For example, if WAPOL had some forensic tests done on the victims that showed other people's DNA but not BREs DNA, obviously the prosecution wouldn't introduce those as evidence, but the defence could request them in what's known as a discovery list, because they're important to their case, and the judge can decide that they're either discoverable or non discoverable. Usually non discoverable items relate to things like financial transactions and personal correspondence, so they might say you can have an excerpt of how much was transferred from the other persons bank account into your account but you can't have their whole January bank statement. Or you can't have the Christmas card they wrote their mother, even though you think it indicates their mental state.

:goodpost:Thanks for that Mrs ND, very interesting, sounds like a very expensive chess game to me. And that wasn't a sly reference to protecting the "Queen" as I agree with Jessica's comments about BE. I appreciate both your comments.
Cheers.

 

[lsdmongre]

As BRE is in custody and by the looks at what people have posted on here in regards to time frames of court dates and trials coukd be a long time in custody. Do you think that Telstra sacks the suspect or do they hold his job for what could be the next 2 years until he is proven guilty or not guiltyand if they do Fire him does his Holiday/long service leave get paid out to him or does his assets and cash get Frozen and possibly used for victims of crime. Another question if he is proven not guilty and Telstra fired him can he Sue for unlawful dismal or does he Sue the government/WAPOL.


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[MyLeftFoot]

Is this confirmed somewhere? It's the first time I have seen the street name given.

I would love to know more about the Perth office BRE is said to have worked out of.

I posed this earlier but noone replied. If you watch the CIA CCTV footage from one of the camera angles it looks like there is a car in front of the hotel. You can see the wheels and its shape. People walk in front of it. From the other angle it just isn't there, but there's nothing else there to explain why it looks like a car from the other camera angle? The best shot of it is at 39:25 in the HayleyJane youtube clip. I would love to know what others think.

Do you mean this one Always Curious? I think it's a white 4wd ute with spotties.