Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[billywhizz]

Why are people still hypothesizing about MM footage (whether JR was drinking) as well as any other number of things such as where he worked etc. ?? It's all been done many times before.

He is in court tomorrow.

You will find out one way or another soon. He might not even be guilty. He might be mystery man, he might not. YOU WILL FIND OUT (what the police think) SOON.

Just give it a rest so we don't have to wade through all this stuff for the millionth time.

You were asked by police when he was arrested not to jeopardise the case. Why you are all still sleuthing this guy and posting about other murders he has possibly done is beyond me.

If you want to discuss anything it should be

(a) the trial/his court appearance
(b) known evidence ie. not unkown evidence that you've just had a random guess at
(c) whether he could have been framed etc. likelihood of being found guilty if all they have is DNA and a forensic link


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jan/27/ukcrime.research

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/a-reasonable-doubt/480747/

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-19412819

http://dnapolicyinitiative.org/police-use-of-dna-mistakes-error-and-fraud/



I can't remember the specifics but there was an episode in the UK I think where they thought a bunch of cases were linked and committed by the same person. It ended up being the DNA of the actual tester that was contaminating all the tests.

 

[petedavo.au]

So is the picture a wiring diagram for a Telstra pillar?

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[RETPI]

Where is the evidence for the Osborne Park rental unit? Hadn’t previously heard that.

Before buying the Huntingdale property they, BE and EC were living in a unit in Albert Street, Osborne Park. It is directly opposite the Primary School.

BE and EC purchased the Huntingdale property in June, 1991 and their former address is on the title.

The unit they were living in was sold by the original owner in September, 1991.

 

[The Weaver]

Postnewspapers 14 January 2017 article. if you do a street walk using google earth along government road there is what appears to be a monumental business at 12 with no signage to indicate name.

Also noted is that Government Road runs immediately parallel to location of Jane Rimmer's employer road which was Carrington and currently there appears to be a public entrance to the Nedlands Early Learning Centre from Government Road; 90 metres west of the monumental business.

I believe given the detail at the top of one of the drawings being telephony related, it is possible the drawings that Mr Winterton located are possibly of an old telephone handpiece; the listening end. see attached

still intriguing given Edwards alleged connection to Telstra and it has been widely publicized in press reports that his father was also allegedly a telephone technician.

The paper the drawings are made on has lines on it which appear to be further apart than modern lined note or exercise pads. Makes me wonder what the Winterton premises were used for prior to 1993 when he purchased the property as detailed in the Postnewspaper article.

I think Postnewspaper pulled page 5 which held the story from online publication due to further research.

The diagram shows 12 'pairs' of wires entering/leaving a central port. Looks to me like a diagram from an early 90's era pabx phone system. The handpiece you showed would only have one 'pair' in it. Most residential properties were only supplied with 2 'pairs'. Commercial premises often required more complex connections involving numerous 'pairs' which were distributed through the premises from a central port

 

[petedavo.au]

Looking down from the top, would a Telstra pillar have 12 connections on each level down?

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[shovel]

Why are people still hypothesizing about MM footage (whether JR was drinking) as well as any other number of things such as where he worked etc. ?? It's all been done many times before.

He is in court tomorrow.

You will find out one way or another soon. He might not even be guilty. He might be mystery man, he might not. YOU WILL FIND OUT (what the police think) SOON.

Just give it a rest so we don't have to wade through all this stuff for the millionth time.

You were asked by police when he was arrested not to jeopardise the case. Why you are all still sleuthing this guy and posting about other murders he has possibly done is beyond me.

If you want to discuss anything it should be

(a) the trial/his court appearance
(b) known evidence ie. not unkown evidence that you've just had a random guess at
(c) whether he could have been framed etc. likelihood of being found guilty if all they have is DNA and a forensic link


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jan/27/ukcrime.research

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/a-reasonable-doubt/480747/

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-19412819

http://dnapolicyinitiative.org/police-use-of-dna-mistakes-error-and-fraud/



I can't remember the specifics but there was an episode in the UK I think where they thought a bunch of cases were linked and committed by the same person. It ended up being the DNA of the actual tester that was contaminating all the tests.

Well, if all they have is DNA it could get a bit wobbly and lm sure the pressure's on for him to talk. He's not so that's probably why the investigation is still so hot. An ex WApol officer suggested looking at other possible victims. That more males were murdered in the same manner through that period than women. And unsolved.

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[crabstick]

No one has posted a reference to the girls being highly intoxicated before. Its very relevant
All the information on here has been published in the media. Its where the info has been sourced.

Hell be on video link tomorrow for a little and then it will be remanded possibly for 12 weeks before a committal and could be remanded 3 times to build the best case.

Its a long road ahead.

Alcohol Consumption:

“How much alcohol had they consumed. Police will not release that information, but concede each woman was highly intoxicated.”

Source: The Devil’s Garden - The Claremont Serial Killings. Author Debi Marshall, 2007. Chapter 11. Page 39.

Why are people still hypothesizing about MM footage (whether JR was drinking) as well as any other number of things such as where he worked etc. ?? It's all been done many times before.

He is in court tomorrow.

You will find out one way or another soon. He might not even be guilty. He might be mystery man, he might not. YOU WILL FIND OUT (what the police think) SOON.

Just give it a rest so we don't have to wade through all this stuff for the millionth time.

You were asked by police when he was arrested not to jeopardise the case. Why you are all still sleuthing this guy and posting about other murders he has possibly done is beyond me.

If you want to discuss anything it should be

(a) the trial/his court appearance
(b) known evidence ie. not unkown evidence that you've just had a random guess at
(c) whether he could have been framed etc. likelihood of being found guilty if all they have is DNA and a forensic link

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/jan/27/ukcrime.research
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/a-reasonable-doubt/480747/
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-19412819
http://dnapolicyinitiative.org/police-use-of-dna-mistakes-error-and-fraud/
I can't remember the specifics but there was an episode in the UK I think where they thought a bunch of cases were linked and committed by the same person. It ended up being the DNA of the actual tester that was contaminating all the tests.

 

[pauldking]

Looking down from the top, would a Telstra pillar have 12 connections on each level down?

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http://www.uotechnology.edu.iq/dep-eee/lectures/3rd/Electrical/Machines 2/I_Introduction.pdf

Source: pdf link above

 

[shovel]

No one has posted a reference to the girls being highly intoxicated before. Its very relevant
All the information on here has been published in the media. Its where the info has been sourced.

Hell be on video link tomorrow for a little and then it will be remanded possibly for 12 weeks before a committal and could be remanded 3 times to build the best case.

Its a long road ahead.

Ok l didnt realise the girls had so much to drink. It would have been far easier to grab them. I would have sent you a message crabstick but l dont know how to do it on this thing. If it turns out CSK was moonlighting in the clubs .... l know you know what that means. I think its a very good theory.

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[Grok]

I really don't think there was any reason for who BE took. I think he worked purely on opportunity. Not targeting rich girls, or girls of a certain social stature. I think he chose Claremont because opportunities arose more frequent and it was far enough away from his home. All my opinion of course, but I don't feel he is as clever or calculated as some believe.


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That theory is not as exciting as some of the others but I like it. Claremont could be his preference simply because it was more likely he wouldn't be recognised in an area he he didn't frequent socially. But in reality your theory doesn't mention any of the Arnotts biscuit range, so it won't get any traction.

 

[The Weaver]

http://www.uotechnology.edu.iq/dep-eee/lectures/3rd/Electrical/Machines 2/I_Introduction.pdf

Source: pdf link above

Right shape etc but the note has the word 'telephone' top right and the wires are 'pairs' that leave the hub.. The picture is definitely phone wiring IMO

 

[Grok]

http://www.uotechnology.edu.iq/dep-eee/lectures/3rd/Electrical/Machines 2/I_Introduction.pdf
Source: pdf link above

My wild guess to join all other wild guesses is, some type of armature within headphones or hearing aid.

 

[pauldking]

My wild guess to join all other wild guesses is, some type of armature within headphones or hearing aid.

Sounds like we need a Telstra Guru. That light industrial area is perfect. Combo of ruse and surprise or ruse and blitz or just blitz. Five litres of blood...

 

[aspiringsleuth]

All the girls complained of being tired and broke away from the group of people they were with.

There was the OBH ? girl where friends put her in a car because she felt, she said, "she could not handle her liquor"

All these girls showed signs of being heavily inebriated and broke all the rules.

Looking forward in the court case to see if there was any trace in their systems of other chemicals and of or drink spiking.
That may sound like a guess, but all the girls sounded 'very drowsy', and did not stay with their friends.
Police court evidence will eliminate that, hopefully with a coroners report made public.

crabstick, while your theory is plausible- only 2 of the 3 girls were 'tired' that I know of. Jane Rimmer was the exception.

SS & CG I think left their friend group as they were tired. (SS leaves before her friends because they were taking too long), and CG tells her colleagues, after being at the Conti for 20 mins, she "had had enough and was leaving". IMO, while she had been at a work function for 5 hours in the evening, I don't think she would have had enough to drink so that she would be "highly intoxicated" as stated in Debi Marshall's book. I certainly could be wrong, but that's just my opinion...

As stated on CrimeStoppers/ CIA Documentary, Jane declines twice to get into a cab with her friends.From this, I would assume that she was not tired, as to why exactly she stays- no-one really knows.
“Jane and her friends didn’t enter the nightclub, instead they decided to catch a cab to a friend’s place where they would continue to party. As they got to the taxi rank near the Continental Hotel, Jane informed her friends that she didn’t want to go home and without any more explanation, she walked off back to the Continental.
Her friends jumped in a cab and pulled up outside the Continental and yelled over to Jane who was standing outside to join them but she declined.”

 

[Mazfrank]

I think if a SK chooses random victims from a wealthy suburb nightlife area, then then's more chance that the victims were 'wealthier' than random victims chosen from less wealthy area. Of course it all by chance if the victims are strangers to the SK.

Different all together if the SK knows the victims personally before the crime.

I agree that the CSK liked the notoriety.

Just an opinion - maybe BRE liked the look of a classier girl instead of rough bogan types that were all to common in Gozzi.


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[tiff]

Looking at the handwriting, the D's etc are not how I was taught to do running writing. I'm 3/4 years younger than the accused. That book, which I hypothesise to be maybe a A5 Spirax notebook. That handwriting belongs to someone much older imo, perhaps an older relative.
EDit -Added: perhaps

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[elastic]

What is quite surprising is if there was really a call to Don Spiers that could have been the CSK and now we are being told of another rape that may have also had the perpetrator call someone, this one being the victim themselves as they were still alive. He probably saw no reason to call Ciara and Janes parents as the body was probably left in what the killer believed was a high probability location of eventual discovery.

In both instances you could assume that getting the details and phone numbers of each home would have been incredibly difficult and probably only likely through a telecom/telstra database that can search addresses and give the phone numbers of those searched addresses. It would have had an advanced search feature to search the phone database in numerous different ways and this is how I reckon he would have located the rape victims phone number. He probably found it easier to get Don Spiers phone number if the CSK did infact call as suggested in the media. What is surprising is that these two little finer details were ignored by the police possibly and exactly how much investigation went into locating both callers? Surely once investigated numerous red flags would have been raised suggesting that whoever was able to find these numbers and call the victims and family in such confidence without being located was someone who knew their phones or was a technical whiz banger with very sophiscated methods of hiding their anonymity

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[perthite]

I've showed my mate who is an ex Telstra tech the diagrams and he's pretty confident it's not phone related. No crossed wires in a pillar setup as the other posters have alluded to.

 

[CP345]

What is quite surprising is if there was really a call to Don Spiers that could have been the CSK and now we are being told of another rape that may have also had the perpetrator call someone, this one being the victim themselves as they were still alive. He probably saw no reason to call Ciara and Janes parents as the body was probably left in what the killer believed was a high probability location of eventual discovery.

In both instances you could assume that getting the details and phone numbers of each home would have been incredibly difficult and probably only likely through a telecom/telstra database that can search addresses and give the phone numbers of those searched addresses. It would have had an advanced search feature to search the phone database in numerous different ways and this is how I reckon he would have located the rape victims phone number. He probably found it easier to get Don Spiers phone number if the CSK did infact call as suggested in the media. What is surprising is that these two little finer details were ignored by the police possibly and exactly how much investigation went into locating both callers? Surely once investigated numerous red flags would have been raised suggesting that whoever was able to find these numbers and call the victims and family in such confidence without being located was someone who knew their phones or was a technical whiz banger with very sophiscated methods of hiding their anonymity

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My initial thought on this phone call business is that it was likely a prank call rather than the actual rapist but something just struck me which I guess makes this a little more likely in my mind now. No amount of reverse directory searching or Telstra know how could have got the phone number without a name. Depending on how common the name was perhaps you'd also need an address or you'd risk calling the wrong place.

One thing we do know is that the KK victim's licence was found and given to the police almost a year later by a local who found it in Rowe Park. Well, at least according to the post who have a pretty good record of being accurate in this case. In earlier discussions with others on WS it was concluded that it must have been dropped in the initial struggle but given the report of the phone call by the earlier victim I think it cant be discounted that the rapist's MO was to take licences to enable him to make phone contact later. On the negative side of this equation I've never heard of KK victim receiving similar calls. Sadly SS family received too many calls from crack pots to know if one was really the person responsible.

Obviously the girl who received the call believes it was from the rapist. Has anyone heard if the caller gave specific information that only the rapist would have known? How did she know it wasn't a prank?

 

[aspiringsleuth]

There was the pay phone in Stirling St that Sarah used. AFAIK there was a public phone at the Claremont Post Office opposite Conti.
Need to confirm the Post Office phone. But, someone could sit the car park opposite and watch girls ring on the phone, then meet them at the corner. It would be a taxi giveaway.

If all the girls were tired, and or inebriated, they would be a lot more conducive to just get in a car of convenience.

About the Post Office phone- after watching news coverage during the 1996/7, I noticed about 6 telephone boxes by the PO right across from The Conti. Also, CIA Documentary and CrimeStoppers mention that JR's friends were walking towards a taxi rank that was nearby The Conti. (This is how they get the cab). Looking at Street View, there is a taxi rank opposite The Conti, although I am not sure where it was in the nineties.
Link to news coverage:
https://youtu.be/yGUH4prJcXc?t=4m4s