Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

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It's not impossible but the likelihood of BRE having anything to do with the girls directly before having allegedly abducted them is highly unlikely. even more so when you start talking prior to the night of the abductions. The girls attending the same schools is nothing more than a geographical coincidence. It's like if I started serial killing in China, chances are my victims will all be Chinese.

It could have been any girl abducted and murdered on those nights, these girls just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
So, in this photo, he would have been about 41? Looks very similar to the Little Athletics ones published. although possibly a bit more weight in those.
 
It's not impossible but the likelihood of BRE having anything to do with the girls directly before having allegedly abducted them is highly unlikely. even more so when you start talking prior to the night of the abductions. The girls attending the same schools is nothing more than a geographical coincidence. It's like if I started serial killing in China, chances are my victims will all be Chinese.

It could have been any girl abducted and murdered on those nights, these girls just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yes, but there is one other factor that makes me wonder this was planned more than we might like to think. All the girls looked alike, which would indicate that he had selected and stalked them earlier in the night and then played the knight in shining armour when he followed them as they left the hotel/club alone? I'm not saying he necessarily had a conversation with all of them,(maybe he deliberately caught their eye at the bar and just gave them a wink or a smile) perhaps he did blitz attack one of them, but he had "selected" these young women and waited and waited for the time to approach or strike. This process could have taken hours of wandering around in pubs and clubs and scoping out possible victims with "the look" and many nights of going home, as said before, without a "catch" as the right vulnerable blonde wasn't out there. 3 women taken randomly that all look so alike doesn't look so "random" to me. JMO of course.
 
It's not impossible but the likelihood of BRE having anything to do with the girls directly before having allegedly abducted them is highly unlikely. even more so when you start talking prior to the night of the abductions. The girls attending the same schools is nothing more than a geographical coincidence. It's like if I started serial killing in China, chances are my victims will all be Chinese.

It could have been any girl abducted and murdered on those nights, these girls just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

IMO the accused used charm and friendliness, coupled with a elaborate lie to trick victims into getting into the car.......

For Example:
I imagine the CSK driving around with a child seat on the back seat, and a fake baby (eg a doll) strapped into the child seat. Using some elaborate lie about the child not being able to sleep because he/she was teething, and that the CSK was driving around trying to get the child to sleep. Maybe the CSK had a blanket tucked up high around the fake baby/doll's head, so it was impossible to see its doll-like features. This scenario would work even better if CSK installed the child seat in the rear-facing position and had window sun-guards restricting views of the fake baby/doll in the seat.

Its possible the CSK learnt from the Birnies that it was necessary to portray a semblance of safety within the car, so women would easily agree to jump in the passenger side front seat. After which the CSK could drive a short distance away into a secluded spot and incapacitate the victims and restrain them, lying them down, maybe on the floor or in the boot, and then cover them with another blanket. And off they go.......

The Birnies perfected the 'safe couple' scenario. If CSK was operating alone, then he needed another safe looking scenario. Many Aussie men joke about the ease of picking-up women while out walking their dogs, or while out with their child/ren. And maybe dogs and children offer a false sense of security that a 'strange guy' is safe, and the CSK capitalised on this phenomenon. A baby seat and life-like doll could be easily obtained from second hand shops, swap-meets, verges, or even SD's car seat or toy was used, but only if the accused was dating CGE at the time of the abductions/murders. And in same vein, if the CSK bought the car seat and doll for just this purpose, then both items could easily be disposed off in a bin along the way.


Of course, this is all my imagination working over time....


Coaxing the victims into the car with some elaborate story makes sense to me, because both Ciara and Sarah were on the left hand side of the road. If blitzing occurred, the car pulling up, then stopping and a lone strange man running around to the other side of the car to grab the victims, would IMO alert the victims, and give them a chance to run, defend themselves, and/or scream making a commotion! Witnesses would probably have heard screams if victims were blitzed. And all this movement and commotion around the car takes too much time. Known witnesses told of no noise or drivers getting out of cars.

Blitz would only work for Ciara and Sarah if the car drove on the wrong side of the road so driver's side was nearest the victims. But witnesses did not see this happening as no road rules were broken.

Does anyone know exact point of blitzing abduction in Rowe Park KK case? There's a small car park area in middle of Rowe Park, and maybe CSK parked up waiting...And maybe CSK decided after KK that this abduction method was too difficult and noisy, and so the CSK adapted his/her abduction style for the next victims.
 
To add to the discussion about the schools.... in the leaving class of '85 at Swanbourne HS, there was only a very small number of female students. If I remember rightly, there were only about 3 or 4, I may be off on that but the males certainly outnumbered the females by a long shot. In the leaving '85 class at Iona, there were approximately 90 female students (working purely on a memory that is 30 years old so numbers may be a little different). A similar number for leaving '86 at Iona, which was Ciara's year. So the comparison between those 2 schools alone would show the chances of picking up a girl from Iona was much higher than one of the public schools. While there were stories going around at the time that the police checked out a couple of Iona teachers, I have no evidence to say that is true, though it would seem a likely course of investigation at some point. As an old Ionian, I think it is pure coincidence - jmo of course.
Plus, if you ever went out in Claremont in those days, there were an awful lot of old Ionians out and about... going to the Cott, or the OBH, then to Claremont and eventually Club Bay View was a typical progression for many :)
 
IN January 28 2016 an interesting article appeared in the West Australian Newspaper over the Australia Day weekend, entitled "Forensic Science helps Police close in on killer ".
The article mentions extra resources being swung over to the Macro investigation ,and advancements in famial DNA, before ending with the ominous warning "police may be reluctant to say it, but the net does appear to be closing around the Claremont Serial Killer.
It seems likely WAPOL had BRE firmly in their sights at this time, and that the West Australian was working in with police re the timing, and content of this milestone article.
I think this close level of co- operation has continued between WAPOL and the States only newspaper to the extent that the newspaper has agreed to not publish in depth background research on BREs history, part time jobs, and old photographs detailing his appearance in the 90s. until given the go ahead.
The payoff for the newspaper in future will no doubt be an " exclusive " story regarding hitherto unknown aspects of the case .
If this is the case how come they posted lots of information on the Hayley dodd arrest. The media went to town on the birnies and I'm pretty sure if they arrested some one for other crimes like maybe the Nannup 4 or Julie Cutler the media will be all over it. So whats different about this case.

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IMO the accused used charm and friendliness, coupled with a elaborate lie to trick victims into getting into the car.......

For Example:
I imagine the CSK driving around with a child seat on the back seat, and a fake baby (eg a doll) strapped into the child seat. Using some elaborate lie about the child not being able to sleep because he/she was teething, and that the CSK was driving around trying to get the child to sleep. Maybe the CSK had a blanket tucked up high around the fake baby/doll's head, so it was impossible to see its doll-like features. This scenario would work even better if CSK installed the child seat in the rear-facing position and had window sun-guards restricting views of the fake baby/doll in the seat.

Its possible the CSK learnt from the Birnies that it was necessary to portray a semblance of safety within the car, so women would easily agree to jump in the passenger side front seat. After which the CSK could drive a short distance away into a secluded spot and incapacitate the victims and restrain them, lying them down, maybe on the floor or in the boot, and then cover them with another blanket. And off they go.......

The Birnies perfected the 'safe couple' scenario. If CSK was operating alone, then he needed another safe looking scenario. Many Aussie men joke about the ease of picking-up women while out walking their dogs, or while out with their child/ren. And maybe dogs and children offer a false sense of security that a 'strange guy' is safe, and the CSK capitalised on this phenomenon. A baby seat and life-like doll could be easily obtained from second hand shops, swap-meets, verges, or even SD's car seat or toy was used, but only if the accused was dating CGE at the time of the abductions/murders. And in same vein, if the CSK bought the car seat and doll for just this purpose, then both items could easily be disposed off in a bin along the way.


Of course, this is all my imagination working over time....


Coaxing the victims into the car with some elaborate story makes sense to me, because both Ciara and Sarah were on the left hand side of the road. If blitzing occurred, the car pulling up, then stopping and a lone strange man running around to the other side of the car to grab the victims, would IMO alert the victims, and give them a chance to run, defend themselves, and/or scream making a commotion! Witnesses would probably have heard screams if victims were blitzed. And all this movement and commotion around the car takes too much time. Known witnesses told of no noise or drivers getting out of cars.

Blitz would only work for Ciara and Sarah if the car drove on the wrong side of the road so driver's side was nearest the victims. But witnesses did not see this happening as no road rules were broken.

Does anyone know exact point of blitzing abduction in Rowe Park KK case? There's a small car park area in middle of Rowe Park, and maybe CSK parked up waiting...And maybe CSK decided after KK that this abduction method was too difficult and noisy, and so the CSK adapted his/her abduction style for the next victims.

Very good idea oh "Spooky one", appealing to young women, the lovely doting "Dad" with the baby in the seat, very plausible and I can see no reason why this wouldn't work. Ted Bundy used all sorts of tricks to get women into his car, fake broken arm etc. he even had handcuffs waiting on the passenger door to lock girls up after he'd told one girl he was a cop, she managed to get away, thank the Lord. I agree there was trickery for 2 of the girls SS and CG, poor JR I think might have been blitzed in a dark spot when lured there for a lift by MM or grabbed as she walked past after giving up waiting for who knows who.
 
Going off track - but here's some pics of Ciara's d-site that I took early in 2016. Not really adding any extra info, just thought out-of-towners may appreciate seeing the area and scrub bush up close.

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Does it look like there is a mounting spot for a plaque was this ever mounted or has some one vandalised it or stolen it. That's pretty disrespectful if that is the case.

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Yes, a while back on here I posted a theory about him possibly posing as a "nice, caring family man driving a family type station wagon" - with maybe a baby seat in the back to make his victims feel "safe" enough to accept a lift in his station wagon.

It is plausible IMO because I think they would probably feel fairly safe getting into a car with a "family man and father of a young child" who might have been pretending to care about their welfare while they were vulnerable, out and about late at night.

Either that or he posed as a policeman or some sort of security person.... JMO

Very good idea oh "Spooky one", appealing to young women, the lovely doting "Dad" with the baby in the seat, very plausible and I can see no reason why this wouldn't work. Ted Bundy used all sorts of tricks to get women into his car, fake broken arm etc. he even had handcuffs waiting on the passenger door to lock girls up after he'd told one girl he was a cop, she managed to get away, thank the Lord. I agree there was trickery for 2 of the girls SS and CG, poor JR I think might have been blitzed in a dark spot when lured there for a lift by MM or grabbed as she walked past after giving up waiting for who knows who.
 
In my eyes, the girls don't really look alike. They may be the approximately the same age with long hair but I can't see any similarities in their faces....

How would he know beforehand that they would all be alone on the street looking for a taxi at the end of the night?

I did read somewhere that a girl was offered a lift in St Quentin's Ave just before and not far from Club Bayview on the same night Sarah went missing but lucky for her, she declined...

I do think it was random pickings and he was on the lookout for his prey, ie attractive girls who had had a few drinks, were tired and eager to get home after a long night out on the town and were finding it difficult to get a taxi.

Yes, but there is one other factor that makes me wonder this was planned more than we might like to think. All the girls looked alike, which would indicate that he had selected and stalked them earlier in the night and then played the knight in shining armour when he followed them as they left the hotel/club alone? I'm not saying he necessarily had a conversation with all of them,(maybe he deliberately caught their eye at the bar and just gave them a wink or a smile) perhaps he did blitz attack one of them, but he had "selected" these young women and waited and waited for the time to approach or strike. This process could have taken hours of wandering around in pubs and clubs and scoping out possible victims with "the look" and many nights of going home, as said before, without a "catch" as the right vulnerable blonde wasn't out there. 3 women taken randomly that all look so alike doesn't look so "random" to me. JMO of course.
 
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I uploaded a paint type programme and spent a few hours trying to learn how to do it (without instructions, I am a bear of little brain) then I uploaded BRE familiar photo and messed around with it putting more hair on him, slimming his face of course, and taking out his wrinkles. My husband came in and was watching me and said "Why are you making that bloke look like a film star?" LOL. I think he looks like Liberace (even before my time but I think everyone knows him, camp as a row of tents as my Dad used to say!) May just give a bit of an impression how he might have looked way back when, could have presented quite well from the driver's seat with a nice quiet demeanor and gentle smile. (Pause as flesh crawls).
 

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I uploaded a paint type programme and spent a few hours trying to learn how to do it (without instructions, I am a bear of little brain) then I uploaded BRE familiar photo and messed around with it putting more hair on him, slimming his face of course, and taking out his wrinkles. My husband came in and was watching me and said "Why are you making that bloke look like a film star?" LOL. I think he looks like Liberace (even before my time but I think everyone knows him, camp as a row of tents as my Dad used to say!) May just give a bit of an impression how he might have looked way back when, could have presented quite well from the driver's seat with a nice quiet demeanor and gentle smile. (Pause as flesh crawls).
 
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attachment.php


I uploaded a paint type programme and spent a few hours trying to learn how to do it (without instructions, I am a bear of little brain) then I uploaded BRE familiar photo and messed around with it putting more hair on him, slimming his face of course, and taking out his wrinkles. My husband came in and was watching me and said "Why are you making that bloke look like a film star?" LOL. I think he looks like Liberace (even before my time but I think everyone knows him, camp as a row of tents as my Dad used to say!) May just give a bit of an impression how he might have looked way back when, could have presented quite well from the driver's seat with a nice quiet demeanor and gentle smile. (Pause as flesh crawls).
Thank you Lampformypath for taking time out to do this. Yes he does look like Liberace lol! However do believe he was able to turn on the charm factor (perhaps like Ted Bundy).
 
If this is the case how come they posted lots of information on the Hayley dodd arrest. The media went to town on the birnies and I'm pretty sure if they arrested some one for other crimes like maybe the Nannup 4 or Julie Cutler the media will be all over it. So whats different about this case.

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Bret Christian's Post Newspaper?


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I've been following these threads for a while now, I think I have something to add though it is very, very much hearsay and if that isn't allowed please remove. I had dinner with a family friend a few weeks ago and he said something along the lines of one of BRE's sibling-in-laws found human remains at the Madora Bay property, sat on the information for a period of time then went to the police. Please remember this is 100% hearsay and completely unverifiable - thought it might add another perspective to the conversation.
 
Does it look like there is a mounting spot for a plaque was this ever mounted or has some one vandalised it or stolen it. That's pretty disrespectful if that is the case.

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You are right, I'm sure there was a plague, how disgusting of someone taking that. What a desolate place. I couldn't go there like you did and take photos, would feel so many tingles and sure I'd get horrible mental pictures. Thank you for showing us though, sad and lonely, now may her spirit find eternal peace, Amen
 
I've been following these threads for a while now, I think I have something to add though it is very, very much hearsay and if that isn't allowed please remove. I had dinner with a family friend a few weeks ago and he said something along the lines of one of BRE's sibling-in-laws found human remains at the Madora Bay property, sat on the information for a period of time then went to the police. Please remember this is 100% hearsay and completely unverifiable - thought it might add another perspective to the conversation.[

/QUOTE] Hi Esets - thanks for sharing. Do we know what type of remains?
 
You are right, I'm sure there was a plague, how disgusting of someone taking that. What a desolate place. I couldn't go there like you did and take photos, would feel so many tingles and sure I'd get horrible mental pictures. Thank you for showing us though, sad and lonely, now may her spirit find eternal peace, Amen
We have to consider that the perpetrator took the plaque as a souvenir.
 
[/QUOTE] Hi Esets - thanks for sharing. Do we know what type of remains?[/QUOTE]

No idea I'm afraid - there's at least 3 degrees of separation between me and the sibling-in-law if the information is even slightly true, so it could all just be chinese whispers.
 
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