Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

[Pandit]

Great find Spooks, thanks!

Add to that, the drivers door and window open, ignition and lights in the "ON" position so the engine was likely running and obviously it drove into the ocean in the night time.

Resting on the ocean floor roof down, nose first into the sand as the heaviest section of the Fiat holds the motor. Research indicates the headlights would have started to dim fairly quickly and completely dead from between 3 and 6 hours, possibly less than the minimum in Julie's old car. I doubt they would have been seen at all from any position on the shore.

JC - NO shoes, bag, or other personal items found at beach.

Fiat found upside down so obviously was rolled over by waves if Fiat was driven into the water.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...-of-missing-and-murdered-20161231-gtk9el.html


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[meticulously]

JC - NO shoes, bag, or other personal items found at beach.

Fiat found upside down so obviously was rolled over by waves if Fiat was driven into the water.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...-of-missing-and-murdered-20161231-gtk9el.html


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

JC - NO shoes, bag, or other personal items found at beach.

Fiat found upside down so obviously was rolled over by waves if Fiat was driven into the water.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...-of-missing-and-murdered-20161231-gtk9el.html


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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Thanks Spooks

Quote from the article below :

"Superintendent Ron Carey,
who investigated the case,
said the back seat of the car had been washed out of the vehicle and was found on a nearby beach.

"If the back seat could wash out why didn't Julie's body if she was in the car?
Why didn't her shoes, handbag or some other item of property wash up?"
he said while being interviewed for the Channel Nine documentary "To Catch a Killer" ten years ago."



"I believe she was never in the car when it went off Cottesloe Groyne.
I believe that Julie was murdered and that the body was buried or secreted somewhere else before the car was dumped in the ocean."

Julie Cutler's family, and those of Kerry Turner who disappeared in 1991, have called on police investigating the Claremont serial killings to have a fresh look at their daughters' cases too, according to The Weekend West."
_______________________________

"To catch a killer"
Does anyone happen to know if this documentary is online ?
It would be good to see that one .

 

[no name]

Agree. Logically Claremont must have suffered somewhat, as we know the taxi industry did. Perhaps more so with the non locals choosing not to travel there for a night out rather than the locals & usual punters deciding to abandon it completely and go elsewhere. We didnt change our behavior as much after CSK as we did after the Birnies when hitchiking was common place and communication was payphone or nothing, the main thing we all did was get mobile phones. So totally agree with Pete Davo there, my first phone was a 5110 in 1997, most of my friends already had phones by then & I think everyone Ive ever known had a phone by 1998.

 

[NickyScarfo]

No Name, were you living in the area in the 90s? If so can you confirm Claremont basically looked the same from the 1990s until the building of the Claremont Quarter?

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Agree. Logically Claremont must have suffered somewhat, as we know the taxi industry did. Perhaps more so with the non locals choosing not to travel there for a night out rather than the locals & usual punters deciding to abandon it completely and go elsewhere. We didnt change our behavior as much after CSK as we did after the Birnies when hitchiking was common place and communication was payphone or nothing, the main thing we all did was get mobile phones. So totally agree with Pete Davo there, my first phone was a 5110 in 1997, most of my friends already had phones by then & I think everyone Ive ever known had a phone by 1998.

I got my first mobile phone in early 2001. But I was one of the last of my friends to get a mobile.


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Spooks-R-Us]

No Name, were you living in the area in the 90s? If so can you confirm Claremont basically looked the same from the 1990s until the building of the Claremont Quarter?

Yes it was basically the same until Claremont Quarter


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Annalise]

The Charles Hotel in North Perth was a very lively pub. I'm not sure if the accused would have gone there. MOO

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Thanks Spooks

Quote from the article below :

"Superintendent Ron Carey,
who investigated the case,
said the back seat of the car had been washed out of the vehicle and was found on a nearby beach.

"If the back seat could wash out why didn't Julie's body if she was in the car?
Why didn't her shoes, handbag or some other item of property wash up?"
he said while being interviewed for the Channel Nine documentary "To Catch a Killer" ten years ago."



"I believe she was never in the car when it went off Cottesloe Groyne.
I believe that Julie was murdered and that the body was buried or secreted somewhere else before the car was dumped in the ocean."

Julie Cutler's family, and those of Kerry Turner who disappeared in 1991, have called on police investigating the Claremont serial killings to have a fresh look at their daughters' cases too, according to The Weekend West."
_______________________________

"To catch a killer"
Does anyone happen to know if this documentary is online ?
It would be good to see that one .

I haven't been able to find that doco online.
Does anyone have Channel 9 contacts?
Or an old URL to search in Wayback Machine?


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Annalise]

Hi Pete and ESH! Yes my first mobile was a Nokia 5110 in 1999. Was just curious if either of SS, CG, JR did. Given that SS used a phone box I’m thinking no. But CG being a young professional at a law firm, maybe.

Hi NickyS and welcome - there has never been any mention of any of the three girls having mobile phones. I think that may have been their downfall really. Most people didn't have them back then. You can bet the accused had one because of his job. MOO

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/hote...l-over-claremont-murder-charges-ng-b88342069z

The former owners of the Claremont and Club Bayview saying that by the end of their ownership in 2014 business had only recovered to 70% of what it was pre Claremont murders.

"....the Continental Hotel nearly went bankrupt because people were too scared to visit Claremont."

Same web link as in quote


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Xyz]

A while back someone suggested there are some journalists who cover court cases and tweet throughout with updates. Can anyone recall who these journalists are? And does anyone know if they will be covering the trial?... might be time I finally worked out how to use Twitter!!! Thanks

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

A while back someone suggested there are some journalists who cover court cases and tweet throughout with updates. Can anyone recall who these journalists are? And does anyone know if they will be covering the trial?... might be time I finally worked out how to use Twitter!!! Thanks

PeteDavo knows who they are!


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Canning Vale]

Michelle is a very familiar name, so familiar she may be two people.Waiting for confirmation on that. Named by Droc as being at the pub and club venues and assisting making women comfortable getting into a car with a taxi guy to be abducted and killed (short version of story). CGE would have had a small child around 2 years (Apr 1994, I think), and may not have been hitting the pubs and clubs. However it does stick in my mind that Bartholmous (sp?) had a male suspect a few years younger than the accused that worked with sign writing in Government Road that had a french name.

With regard to the CSK (whoever he is) perhaps did sometimes have an assistant to help luring victims into his vehicle. Perhaps he used street workers for their services and paid them to do so. Once the street-worker became uncomfortable and refused to partake, perhaps they went missing too.

I don’t suppose the CSK told them his real name or they knew anything about him. I don’t think he’d be the sort of person to confide in anyone – ever!

I haven’t noticed street workers or prostitutes on the Missing and Murdered website – I don’t think they’re even listed. I’ve sourced a few, from different websites and added them to the spreadsheet, but details about them are very minimal.

Perhaps it was an assistant in the back of the taxi – i.e. the one the bricklayer spotted at Pipidinny Rd, Eglinton.

The bricklayer advised, “I thought there might have been someone sitting in the back,” he added. It was definitely a Ford Falcon and it was a grubby thing too. I saw the front more than I saw the side. It was definitely a taxi.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...h/news-story/b80af943b3f4b839a9956cdffd1aa3ab

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Started compiling a list of all the doco's, televised interviews, books, and videos that featured CSK case:
(Adding weblinks slowly)

1. "To catch a killer" channel 9 doco

2. Crime Investigation Australia doco
"Hunt for a killer"
https://youtu.be/M62_WJ1-LBk
https://youtu.be/nNNF1E3mg3c


3. Claremont Ghost video

4. Tigermoth video

5. "Australian Story: Look Before You Leap " doco about Estelle Blackburn, and her worries that she may have dated someone who (at the time) she thought was the CSK. Season 12 Episode 38, aired 5th November 2007.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2395551/

6. JR's CCTV Video
https://youtu.be/eTpMkQV_bfk

7. Interview with LW

8. Interview with Glennon's

9. "Devil's Garden" book by Debi Marshall
https://www.penguin.com.au/books/the-devils-garden-9781741664669

10. "Ciara's Gift: Grief edged with gold" book by Una Glennon.
unaglennon.com

11. "Australian Story: He who waits" doco 9th Feb 2004
https://web.archive.org/web/20170110212530/http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2003/s1042100.htm

12. "End of Innocence" 2007 book by Estelle Blackburn, autobiography that describes her relationship with a man who she thought was the CSK.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNAluXc72VQy87eNaJL4vd3w7S91803f8PrGfP57VrrlNTph4j
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estelle_Blackburn



............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[Canning Vale]

"....the Continental Hotel nearly went bankrupt because people were too scared to visit Claremont."

Same web link as in quote


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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Well, if no-one was going to the Continental Hotel, WAPOL should have known who the CSK was - the only one at the Hotel!

 

[Pandit]

Hi Canningvale,

With information of what the investigators have on BRE so thin, we can't know if any of the girls items were found and with detectives brought in from the eastern states to help, I think they've probably run down absolutely every lead and looked in every nook and cranny of every place BRE had any connection to.

If it was me though at desperation point to find something, I might be tipping every doll or mannequinn (if there's any around) I saw upside down to see what fell out and unpicking every seam. Might have a problem with the shoes but you never know! Twenty years later and he's apparently been inactive, these things may be long gone but to be sure he kept them for a while. And close.

Pandit,

It’s very interesting the doll theory. According to the spreadsheet a couple of ladies missing/murdered were 162cm (5’3”). The other ladies weren’t much different. I don’t have the heights for a lot of the victims.

 

[Pandit]

A book Invisible Women 2016 on murdered prostitutes. A list in here that may be helpful, there's a couple of familiar WA names on it. There's also some great links attached that take you directly to resources.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/196348301?selectedversion=NBD55194244

When news of a murdered woman hits the headlines in Australia, people sit up and take notice. Unless that woman happens to be a sex worker. Invisible Women tells the stories of several murdered sex workers - all of whom are somebody's mother, daughter, wife or sister - whose identities have been erased. Why do we see some lives as less valuable than others, and what price do we all pay for this shocking lack of care?

• Her Name Was Tracy - Tracy Connelly 2013
• Shirley Brifman 1972
• Margaret Ward 1973
• One Pub-Crawl Too Many - Elaine King 1974
• The 19th Hole - Shirley Finn 1975
• Simone Vogel 1977
• Adele Bailey 1978
• Colleen Moore 1978
• Marion Sandford 1980
• The Woman Who Knew Too Much - Sallie-Anne Huckstepp 1986
• Lillian Lorenz 1986
• Cheryl Burchell 1987
• Jodie Larcombe 1987
• Cary-Jane Pierce 1988
• Roslyn Hayward 1990
• Sharon Taylor 1990
• Amanda Byrnes 1991
• Suzanne Grant 1991
• Mail-Order Aside - Pia Navida 1992
• Melissa Ryan 1993
• Michelle Copping 1994
• Kerrie Pang 1994
• Samantha Mizzi 1994
• She's a Beautiful Dancer - Revelle Balmain 1994
• Forgotten Victims - Donna Hicks 1995 &​ Kristy Harty 1997
• Grace Heathcote 1995
• Colleen Jefferies 1996
• Rebecca Bernauer 1997
• Nobody Noticed Margaret Maher 1997
• Karen-Ann Redmile 1998
• Elizabeth Henry 1998
• Clare Garabedian 1998
• Tracy Holmes 1998
• Rachael Campbell 1998
• Lisa Brown 1998
• Jennifer Wilby 1999
• Erin Smith 1999
• Rebecca Schloss 1999
• 'Bambi' 2000
• From Paramedic to Predator - Jasmin Crathern 2002 &​ Julie McColl 2003
• Maria Scott 2003
• Darylyn Ugle 2003
• Discarded in a Ditch Kelly Hodge 2003
• The Slow-Flowing River - Phuangsri Kroksamrang &​ Somjai Insamnan 2004
• Run For Your Life - Sandra Cawthorne 2004
• Punch-Drunk and Dangerous - Grace Ilardi 2004
• Mayuree Kaewee 2004
• Lisa Moy 2005
• Zanita Green 2005
• Jo-Anne Bowen 2006
• The Lost Child - Leanne Thompson 2006
• Cracks in the Pavement - Emma King 2008
• 'Jenny' &​ 'Susan' 2008
• She's Over There - Rebecca Apps 2010
• Shuxia Yuan 2010
• Valmai Birch 2011
• The Lies That Men Tell - Johanna Martin 2011
• The Blood-Soaked Sofa -Debara Martin 2012
• A Dream Cut Short - Mayang Prasetyo 2014
• Ting Fang 2015
• Tiffany Taylor 2015
• Not Forgotten - Index of Victims: Missing and Murdered Since 1970

With regard to the CSK (whoever he is) perhaps did sometimes have an assistant to help luring victims into his vehicle. Perhaps he used street workers for their services and paid them to do so. Once the street-worker became uncomfortable and refused to partake, perhaps they went missing too.

I don’t suppose the CSK told them his real name or they knew anything about him. I don’t think he’d be the sort of person to confide in anyone – ever!

I haven’t noticed street workers or prostitutes on the Missing and Murdered website – I don’t think they’re even listed. I’ve sourced a few, from different websites and added them to the spreadsheet, but details about them are very minimal.

Perhaps it was an assistant in the back of the taxi – i.e. the one the bricklayer spotted at Pipidinny Rd, Eglinton.

The bricklayer advised, “I thought there might have been someone sitting in the back,” he added. It was definitely a Ford Falcon and it was a grubby thing too. I saw the front more than I saw the side. It was definitely a taxi.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...h/news-story/b80af943b3f4b839a9956cdffd1aa3ab

 

[Canning Vale]

Hi NickyScarfo and welcome !

IIRC back in the late 90's, the only people that had mobile phones were people that worked on the the road or were gadget type tech-heads. The latter being the sort of person that always had to have to latest gizmo or gadget.

IMO, Since early model mobiles were only wireless telephones, and not the mini-computers/cameras they are today, people bought them only if they needed to be in contact with others while out on the road.

I'm guessing CG didn't own at mobile phone at time of her abduction since she just returned from a long overseas holiday. And I doubt that Aussie mobiles could be used overseas back then, but I'm no Telco/communications expert.

JR worked in childcare so I doubt she 'needed' a mobile phone, so she probably didn't own one.

IIRC, I think by about 2000-2002 mobiles were more common, with Nokia holding market majority.


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

I think I had a Nokia mobile phone in 1996. When mobile phones came out they were quite big.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Started compiling a list of all the doco's, televised interviews, books, and videos that featured CSK case:
(Adding weblinks slowly)

1. "To catch a killer" channel 9 doco

2. Crime Investigation Australia doco
"Hunt for a killer"
https://youtu.be/M62_WJ1-LBk
https://youtu.be/nNNF1E3mg3c


3. Claremont Ghost video

4. Tigermoth video

5. "Australian Story: Look Before You Leap " doco about Estelle Blackburn, and her worries that she may have dated someone who (at the time) she thought was the CSK. Season 12 Episode 38, aired 5th November 2007.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2395551/

Part 1 Transcript
https://web.archive.org/web/20170225213303/http://www.abc.net.au:80/austory/content/2007/s2083149.htm

Part 2 Transcript
https://web.archive.org/web/20170102192437/http://www.abc.net.au:80/austory/content/2007/s2089795.htm

6. JR's CCTV Video
https://youtu.be/eTpMkQV_bfk

7. Interview with LW

8. Interview with Glennon's

9. "Devil's Garden" book by Debi Marshall
https://www.penguin.com.au/books/the-devils-garden-9781741664669

10. "Ciara's Gift: Grief edged with gold" book by Una Glennon.
unaglennon.com

11. "Australian Story: He who waits" doco 9th Feb 2004
https://web.archive.org/web/20170110212530/http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2003/s1042100.htm

12. "End of Innocence" 2007 book by Estelle Blackburn, autobiography that describes her relationship with a man who she thought was the CSK.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNAluXc72VQy87eNaJL4vd3w7S91803f8PrGfP57VrrlNTph4j
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estelle_Blackburn



............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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EDITED #5 in my list inside quote (red text)

 

[Canning Vale]

No Name, were you living in the area in the 90s? If so can you confirm Claremont basically looked the same from the 1990s until the building of the Claremont Quarter?

I think someone mentioned there was a body club which burnt down. Near the corner of Stirling Rd & Stirling Hwy - close to where SS was last seen.