Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #18

[Canning Vale]

That's what I remember too. The groyne had basic lights on it that were weak and only were there for fishing safety. There were no lights at the beach and definitely NOT floodlit for night surfing. Not sure where that idea had come from.

In winter even if you used the beach every day you would not be able to see what was lurking in the darker waters until it came cost to shore. That is how the fatal shark attacks have happened at Cott. The victims could not see the 5 metre sharks in the water.

After dark there was nothing open on the beach itself. It was creepy and dark. Like all beaches in Perth in the 80s.

Probably the only life at the beach after dark was the Scarborough drags. Where driver's used to do burn-outs.

 

[petedavo.au]

That's what i am thinking as well. Especially if you don't care about the car's condition.

One thing to remember is we all need to view the car dumping with a1980's lens not a tech driven 2017 lens. Ideas for covering crimes were not available at the click of a mouse via Mr Google. Crims used their own creativity and examples they saw on the news/in newspapers/in books (if they read books)/in movies.

And there's curbing added to the road now as well that didn't exist in 1988.
https://youtu.be/bFq5PrFSGcE

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[Innerchild]

My stepson worked for a council once as a ranger up in one of those areas that had beaches, as I used to meet up with him way up around Carine. He can't swim. He never went on a beach. He only ever gave out parking infringements at beachside carparks. All that Beach stuff was left to surf lifesaving clubs. His council wasn't interested in spending money on beach patrols if someone else would do it for free.

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Volunteer clubbies didn't do it at all in winter or during the week. May have been different in Carine, but Cott were one of the first councils to invest in paid beach inspectors or paid lifeguards. Would have been good to get it confirmed one way or another. Seemed like a simple request but Cottesloe refused.

 

[meticulously]

Here is a new link for the pdf on the leeuwin current and the effects on swell directions off WA coast .

https://tinyurl.com/ya6bpzgp
_______________________________

Link to information about the wave climate of WA metropolitan beaches .

https://www.scribd.com/document/361976870/Scarborough-Reef-Feasibility-Final-Report-v1-2

"From analysing the annual wave climate
The wave direction was found to be very close to due west (Figure 3-6).
The mean swell direction (272°) derived
over the annual wave climate."

 

[Innerchild]

The roadway from Marine Parade to the Groyne appears to be much the same, except the carpark under the Pines that extended to the beach is gone and been replaced with lawn. And of course the Indiana now stands where the old change rooms and kiosk was. But as you can see in the drone footage the Southern access Rd has nothing hindering a car getting onto the beach, especially when it was said in the article about recovering the Fiat, that sand drifts were over the road, meaning to me that any drop off didn't exist at the time.
https://youtu.be/CeqvxCdoZe8

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Maybe nothing hindering a car reaching the beach if it could travel over the sand which is a lot wider on this side than the boat shed. However you're stuffed if you're trying to get back to the groyne if the access road's blocked with sand drifts. Image from PD's video shows a serious height difference to try to drive on groyne from the beach. It wasn't as pronounced in 1988 but still there IMO.

Image taken from . https://youtu.be/CeqvxCdoZe8

 

[Canning Vale]

IMO Innerchild, we do keep going around in circles and I'll be happy when we've moved on from this. Seems we can't get any kind of agreement on the most likely scenario.

I think the car going in has been explained quite logically and in simplicity, that it doesn't fit with your hypothesis of two dumping events and a fishing boat to accommodate your line theory is why I believe you are rejecting them.

"Confirmation bias, the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories."

In summary,

Confirmation bias is a very polite way of describing someone who's just narrow-minded!

 

[Ewood66]

Just found this for the 2017/18 Season from the Australian Lifeguard Services who provide the paid lifeguards at Cottesloe Beach. It shows the season for paid Lifeguards from 1 October - 30 April
https://lifeguards.com.au/WA/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Information-Document.pdf

 

[Innerchild]

In summary,

Confirmation bias is a very polite way of describing someone who's just narrow-minded!

Just as well that's the opposite of what happened to my existing theory in JC's car. But I think you have just given a good example of what confirmation bias is.

Dictionary: Confirmation bias
noun

• the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.

 

[Innerchild]

Just found this for the 2017/18 Season from the Australian Lifeguard Services who provide the paid lifeguards at Cottesloe Beach. It shows the season for paid Lifeguards from 1 October - 30 April
https://lifeguards.com.au/WA/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Information-Document.pdf

Thanks great information Ewood. We know the Cott Council had Rangers in June 1988. The ranger was given the car seat when it was found at Cottesloe Beach and helped in the beach search for JC from the media reports. The Cott Council would be able to confirm their hours of operation and whether their duties were the same as the current paid lifeguards.

 

[Ewood66]

Thanks great information Ewood. We know the Cott Council had Rangers in June 1988. The ranger was given the car seat when it was found at Cottesloe Beach and helped in the beach search for JC from the media reports. The Cott Council would be able to confirm their hours of operation and whether their duties were the same as the current paid lifeguards.

Here is some information about the Ranger Services, while it is from the Shire of Peppermint Grove website, Cott and Peppy Grove share the cost of the same service. This is not any different from ranger services in any council and does not include lifeguard type services
http://www.peppermintgrove.wa.gov.au/services-facilities/ranger-services/

 

[Innerchild]

Source Claremont Ghost Hint 7 published in websleuths by papertrial

You can see a screensaver on the computer under the image for Hint 7 which was published by someone calling themselves Claremont Ghost as far as I know.

Questions for papertrail and any others.

When was the Claremont Ghost video clips first made available to public?

Where did papertrail get the images they posted on ws's from?

What is Julie Cutler's crushed retrieved car doing as a screensaver for this person? Was JC's disappearance considered to be connected to the other three CSK victims?

Where did the colour image of JC's car come from?

The only media image was published in 2000 and is black and white. Parts of the news video of the car being retrieved in 1988 may have been replayed in a crime series "He Who Waits". It is supposed to be on the media link on ws, but the link is broken and it's not there. The transcript can be accessed from Four Corners archives but not any video. Does anyone have a clipped copy please?

Were the recent Ch 7 colour images of JC's retrieved car posted on w.s. from the "He who Waits"documentary or were they somehow from the original 1988 footage?

What is the other overhead image in the squared screen saver of? Is it JR or CG's crime scene? If so was this a published image?

 

[petedavo.au]

Maybe nothing hindering a car reaching the beach if it could travel over the sand which is a lot wider on this side than the boat shed. However you're stuffed if you're trying to get back to the groyne if the access road's blocked with sand drifts. Image from PD's video shows a serious height difference to try to drive on groyne from the beach. It wasn't as pronounced in 1988 but still there IMO.

Image taken from . https://youtu.be/CeqvxCdoZe8

You don't drive onto the beach where that picture is taken from to goto the groyne.
You drive along the access rd, which isn't in that photo.
The road is clearly seen in this photo from channel 7
https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/worl...make-its-way-to-cottesloe-beach-ng-b88570632z

 

[Pandit]

Is this the Southern access road to which you refer petedavo.au, where the red line is and X marks the spot where I think the offender side swiped the fiat?

This is where, spooks, noname, met? and I believe the car entered the beach and launched off the concrete platform. Spooks and noname think it was the Northern access road where I don't care really, either one of them will do but think I'd prefer the Southern.

Any reason why this couldn't make sense?

The roadway from Marine Parade to the Groyne appears to be much the same, except the carpark under the Pines that extended to the beach is gone and been replaced with lawn. And of course the Indiana now stands where the old change rooms and kiosk was. But as you can see in the drone footage the Southern access Rd has nothing hindering a car getting onto the beach, especially when it was said in the article about recovering the Fiat, that sand drifts were over the road, meaning to me that any drop off didn't exist at the time.
https://youtu.be/CeqvxCdoZe8

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[Canning Vale]

Just as well that's the opposite of what happened to my existing theory in JC's car. But I think you have just given a good example of what confirmation bias is.

Dictionary: Confirmation bias
noun

• the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.

Understanding Confirmation Bias

A confirmation bias is a type of cognitive bias that involves favoring information which confirms previously existing beliefs or biases.

For example, imagine that a person holds a belief that left-handed people are more creative than right-handed people. Whenever this person encounters a person that is both left-handed and creative, they place greater importance on this "evidence" that supports what they already believe. This individual might even seek "proof" that further backs up this belief while discounting examples that do not support the idea.

Confirmation biases impact how people gather information, but they also influence how we interpret and recall information. For example, people who support or oppose a particular issue will not only seek information to support it, they will also interpret news stories in a way that upholds their existing ideas.

They will also remember things in a way that reinforces these attitudes.

https://www.verywell.com/what-is-a-confirmation-bias-2795024

 

[petedavo.au]

Is this the Southern access road to which you refer petedavo.au, where the red line is and X marks the spot where I think the offender side swiped the fiat?

This is where, spooks, noname, met? and I believe the car entered the beach and launched off the concrete platform. Spooks and noname think it was the Northern access road where I don't care really, either one of them will do but think I'd prefer the Southern.

Any reason why this couldn't make sense?

The wall where you marked X I don't believe existed, in 1988. Neither did the lawn as it was carparking. It was just a gentle slope, no curb, no wall. I believe that all changed when they built the Indiana and the council wanted everyone to park up the top and pay parking fees. I was quite pissed off turning up at Cottesloe in the 1990's to find it had all changed from when I had last visited there in 1985/86.

But I hope I'm wrong, and you're right, because that means that Julie's car damage might not be from any malicious attempt to get rid of it, but from some tragic misadventure, and it just hopefully might mean that there is predator going unpunished lurking around Perth still.

Julie Cutler case: Yes, you can get a car onto Cottesloe Groyne. Here's proof from The Post Newspaper 28/01/2017:
From: https://web.archive.org/web/2017012....com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/280117.pdf via @internetarchive

 

[Pandit]

Hi PD.

There's still the matter of Julie's body not showing up or her personal items.

For reasons I've mentioned previously, I have the CSK for this (many serial murderers kill first in their teens) until he can be excluded. Shame we can't see the view towards Marine Parade when the Fiat was retrieved.

The wall where you marked X I don't believe existed, in 1988. Neither did the lawn as it was carparking. It was just a gentle slope, no curb, no wall. I believe that all changed when they built the Indiana and the council wanted everyone to park up the top and pay parking fees. I was quite pissed off turning up at Cottesloe in the 1990's to find it had all changed from when I had last visited there in 1985/86.

But I hope I'm wrong, and you're right, because that means that Julie's car damage might not be from any malicious attempt to get rid of it, but from some tragic misadventure, and it just hopefully might mean that there is predator going unpunished lurking around Perth still.

 

[petedavo.au]

The wall where you marked X I don't believe existed, in 1988. Neither did the lawn as it was carparking. It was just a gentle slope, no curb, no wall. I believe that all changed when they built the Indiana and the council wanted everyone to park up the top and pay parking fees. I was quite pissed off turning up at Cottesloe in the 1990's to find it had all changed from when I had last visited there in 1985/86.

But I hope I'm wrong, and you're right, because that means that Julie's car damage might not be from any malicious attempt to get rid of it, but from some tragic misadventure, and it just hopefully might mean that there is predator going unpunished lurking around Perth still.

Typo. I meant to say NO predator still lurking in Perth. Somehow the NO that I was thinking got dropped by my fingers.

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[Pandit]

That's okay, I knew what you meant.

I'm not invested in selling any particular theory really, was just trying to find a way of explaining how the side dents got there if the fiat could not have gone out as far as the pylon and it wasn't done dragging it in.

Seems to make more sense it hit a fixed object, maybe a light pole or something turning into the access road if there wasn't any sort of retainer wall on the bends going down.

Typo. I meant to say NO predator still lurking in Perth. Somehow the NO that I was thinking got dropped by my fingers.

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[petedavo.au]

Hi PD.

There's still the matter of Julie's body not showing up or her personal items.

For reasons I've mentioned previously, I have the CSK for this (many serial murderers kill first in their teens) until he can be excluded. Shame we can't see the view towards Marine Parade when the Fiat was retrieved.

I agree, that we really need to see the rest of the beach and roads on the day. IMO, Julie Cutler case is unrelated, but that's only because of the Car being dumped, and an older suspect that to my knowledge hasn't been ruled out of contention whose been accused of an incident 2 years earlier that eerily matches up with what Julie's family had reportedly told the media about the incident on Stirling Hwy.
Personally, I'd much rather that the incidents to which you refer were just mere coincidences, as I'd rather it be a tragic misadventure, than the possibility of a malicious act. But I can only go upon what evidence there is rather than what I'd prefer. We need more information to be able to rule out the possibles to get to what's left being the truth.
Hopefully police have tested cigarette butts, reexamined the car and photo evidence, and checked out where suspects were at the time.

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[Canning Vale]

Typo. I meant to say NO predator still lurking in Perth. Somehow the NO that I was thinking got dropped by my fingers.

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I read the original sentence a couple of times, but gathered what you meant. LOL