Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #18

[Canning Vale]

That's okay, I knew what you meant.

I'm not invested in selling any particular theory really, was just trying to find a way of explaining how the side dents got there if the fiat could not have gone out as far as the pylon and it wasn't done dragging it in.

Seems to make more sense it hit a fixed object, maybe a light pole or something turning into the access road if there wasn't any sort of retainer wall on the bends going down.

Apart from the dent/s can anyone see any scraping. If the car hit a fixed object, did it bounce off or indent upon impact.
Although bounce isn't a good word I can't think of a better word.

 

[Canning Vale]

Is this the Southern access road to which you refer petedavo.au, where the red line is and X marks the spot where I think the offender side swiped the fiat?

This is where, spooks, noname, met? and I believe the car entered the beach and launched off the concrete platform. Spooks and noname think it was the Northern access road where I don't care really, either one of them will do but think I'd prefer the Southern.

Any reason why this couldn't make sense?

With regard to the access road on the building’s southern side, where there’s a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] access road. What if, JC was parked facing Stirling Hwy at the T-Junction part, and another vehicle reversed into JCs car, sending JCs car backwards into the ocean.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=125556&stc=1

 

[meticulously]

1968 Fiat 125 sedan from the last report. The crush damage to roof was almost like it was totally removed. Report says the damage was caused by rocks on the groyne. It could have said damage occurred being winched in but doesn't. Forces being winched would be from front to back not applied directly to roof IMO.

The seat wold have got caught against the groyne, like the floor mat did and not travel south on the currents unless it was released further out to sea than the groyne, or from groyne. Just my opinion.

Car in the Surf Mystery Deepens MondayJune 27 ...The roof of the medium sized Sedan, a Fiat 125 about 18 years old had been caved in by being pushed against the rocks at Cottesloe Groyne....Divers on Friday received a floormat thought to have come from the boot of the Fiat. It was found next to the groyne.

Source: Daily News Thursday June 30[SUP]th[/SUP] 1988. For God’s sake let her go pg 1 and 2. Sister’s pea for lost Julie. By Norm Aisbett

Thanks for the article IC .
"Source: Daily News Thursday June 30th 1988."

This missing person Poster has a car that is maybe JC's or a replica model , similar in looks to the actual JC car .

Zoomed and filtered .

 

[no name]

The wall where you marked X I don't believe existed, in 1988. Neither did the lawn as it was carparking. It was just a gentle slope, no curb, no wall. I believe that all changed when they built the Indiana and the council wanted everyone to park up the top and pay parking fees.... Snipped....

Definitely NO carpark down there in 1988. Southern access road - halfway down to the right, path to the toilets, change rooms, tables/chairs & shop. Further down to the left - herringbone path to the groyne or continue around to the boatshed on the right.
Heres a photo from the grassed area complete with herringbone path still.
http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detai...ottesloe-high-res-stock-photography/148758681

 

[b4u]

The Merlin Hotel used to have a nightclub as well. I'll try and remember the name of it one day.
The Merlin Hotel is now known as Hyatt Regency apparently. And it doesn't have the 24HR petrol station underneath it anymore

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/r...d-perths-nightclub-scene-20160525-gp3jkm.html

Kites Nightclub definitely in Oct 89. (according to an old cutting from the Daily News)

But I can't remember if Kites was called something else in 85 before the Merlin became the Hyatt.

 

[petedavo.au]

Definitely NO carpark down there in 1988. Southern access road - halfway down to the right, path to the toilets, change rooms, tables/chairs & shop. Further down to the left - herringbone path to the groyne or continue around to the boatshed on the right.
Heres a photo from the grassed area complete with herringbone path still.
http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detai...ottesloe-high-res-stock-photography/148758681

There's one major problem with that photo. It has the Indiana in it!
We are discussing what the area looked like in 1988, not years later.

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[no name]

There's one major problem with that photo. It has the Indiana in it!
We are discussing what the area looked like in 1988, not years later.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

I realise that.. It hasnt changed. Thats what it looked like except the stairs to be beach were in a different place. Came to WA in '82. Started going to Cott beach on a daily basis from '85, never seen a carpark down there.

 

[Pandit]

It would have dented and the doors are the easiest to do it to. Petedavo I think is correct, it's more a side swipe than a T bone and these dents are what you would see swiping a telephone pole for example or the corner of that retainer wall. Or a pylon but there seems to be questions as to how the car got out that far.

By bouncing I mean impact, dent, bounce off, correct and keep moving. Swiping a fixed object side on won't stop your vehicle, it probably wouldn't even slow it down much. IMO

Apart from the dent/s can anyone see any scraping. If the car hit a fixed object, did it bounce off or indent upon impact.
Although bounce isn't a good word I can't think of a better word.

 

[petedavo.au]

It would have dented and the doors are the easiest to do it to. Petedavo I think is correct, it's more a side swipe than a T bone and these dents are what you would see swiping a telephone pole for example or the corner of that retainer wall. Or a pylon but there seems to be questions as to how the car got out that far.

By bouncing I mean impact, dent, bounce off, correct and keep moving. Swiping a fixed object side on won't stop your vehicle, it probably wouldn't even slow it down. IMO

The side damage is really perplexing (to me anyway). It looks as though the point of impact was at the window line as the caving in begins high up. I think the damage below that is crumpling cause by the higher up impact. As such I think it could be related to being rolled over the groyne sideways, more so than a side swipe. But for where it ended up would suggest it was backed up along the groyne to have the damage on the passenger side, unless the car floated around the groyne. I suppose it's possible as the waves come in from the south west in winter. It just seems bizarre for the car to end up there with everything that sleuths have deduced so far about the area, because the simplest way in wouldn't of caused damage. Or did it go through the park, hit a tree and shoot straight over the retaining walls and flip over on the sand at speed? Why would anyone do that? To get their jollies? To remove the car from ever being associated with the actual crime scene? Did they hate the car, as much as the driver? Was it extreme road rage? Or was it revenge?
I think it comes down to asking was she stalked? And that depends on if the break in and incident on Stirling Hwy are related to this. These suggest to me a different MO to the CSK known cases.
To find the perpetrator, if there is one, we need to find the Motive.


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[meticulously]

The side damage is really perplexing (to me anyway). It looks as though the point of impact was at the window line as the caving in begins high up. I think the damage below that is crumpling cause by the higher up impact. As such I think it could be related to being rolled over the groyne sideways, more so than a side swipe. But for where it ended up would suggest it was backed up along the groyne to have the damage on the passenger side, unless the car floated around the groyne. I suppose it's possible as the waves come in from the south west in winter. It just seems bizarre for the car to end up there with everything that sleuths have deduced so far about the area, because the simplest way in wouldn't of caused damage. Or did it go through the park, hit a tree and shoot straight over the retaining walls and flip over on the sand at speed? Why would anyone do that? To get their jollies? To remove the car from ever being associated with the actual crime scene? Did they hate the car, as much as the driver? Was it extreme road rage? Or was it revenge?
I think it comes down to asking was she stalked? And that depends on if the break in and incident on Stirling Hwy are related to this. These suggest to me a different MO to the CSK known cases.
To find the perpetrator, if there is one, we need to find the Motive.


Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

PD quote : "I suppose it's possible as the waves come in from the south west in winter."

Scientists studies show thats Not true .

The swell refracts around the north side of Rottnest Island and comes into cottesloe beach from the WNW ,Especially in winter .
Its due to the underwater bathymetry .

https://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/cottesloe-tide-and-wave.asp

Example of a typical direction in june "17

Graph showing the direction in june"88 .
Circled in black, ~280°~290°,
date 20th-22nd june"88

Source CSIRO hindcast
https://data.csiro.au/dap/landingpage?pid=csiro:6616

 

[Pandit]

Anyhoo, we know WApol brought in over thirty iirc detectives from the eastern states post BRE arrest to help investigate sixteen unsolved murders/disappearances. JC's case may be one of them, hopefully at the end we might get something at least if not a charge, excludes suspects including the alleged CSK as a certainty.

 

[Bunnie]

Anyhoo, we know WApol brought in over thirty iirc detectives from the eastern states post BRE arrest to help investigate sixteen unsolved murders/disappearances. JC's case may be one of them, hopefully at the end we might get something at least if not a charge, excludes suspects including the alleged CSK as a certainty.

Possibly a mitigating factor in the delay in committal mention.. still collating evidence.

 

[Banquo's Ghost]

Pandit do you have a link for that about the extra detectives? I'd like to pass that info on to a friend.

 

[Pandit]

First heard at a police presser post arrest that the detectives were brought in from the eastern states. There is mention here in this article, if I find a transcript of the presser I'll post it for you.

[FONT=&quot]While that work continues, about 30 extra detectives have been brought in to help work on the case to get it ready for trial.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A large volume of work now needs to be done to establish his movements at the times the crimes were committed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The extra detectives will also be involved in examining any links to other unsolved cases from the past 30 years.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...r/news-story/6c72e0b800816c7c17018525bcd68229[/FONT]

Pandit do you have a link for that about the extra detectives? I'd like to pass that info on to a friend.

 

[Banquo's Ghost]

Thankyou, that's perfect!

 

[PCS]

I recon the Spectacles wetlands needs a thorough search for SS. Freeway Sth, Ankatel rd off ramp, turn right then left into Spectacles drive. No vehicle access now so take your bike & park your car along Mandogalup rd by a house for vehicle safety & ride in. )

 

[meticulously]

So over the weather bull****. It's getting very boring you two... Can we please just stop?
Move on.

I've just started the Mindhunter series, it's a great watch.

The negative comments are the most boring of all though, imo .
Please can you share a link to the M/H series ?

This is whats been on my watchlist .
Enjoy "The perfect storm"
http://diglib.amphilsoc.org/islandora/object/video:1157

 

[meticulously]

I recon the Spectacles wetlands needs a thorough search for SS. Freeway Sth, Ankatel rd off ramp, turn right then left into Spectacles drive. No vehicle access now so take your bike & park your car along Mandogalup rd by a house for vehicle safety & ride in. )

Quote PCS :
"I recon the Spectacles wetlands needs a thorough search for SS.
Freeway Sth, Ankatel rd off ramp, turn right then left into Spectacles drive."
________________________________
Years of talking about the spectacles from certain bloggers , that almost deserves a separate thread .
We could scroll back each year and see similar written things each year .

Remember that one called "has a serial killer blogged here"
Was that a decade ago ?
That was so exciting hey PCS ???

 

[Innerchild]

Maybe nothing hindering a car reaching the beach if it could travel over the sand which is a lot wider on this side than the boat shed. However you're stuffed if you're trying to get back to the groyne if the access road's blocked with sand drifts. Image from PD's video shows a serious height difference to try to drive on groyne from the beach. It wasn't as pronounced in 1988 but still there IMO.

Image taken from . https://youtu.be/CeqvxCdoZe8

PD, the point I was making was if the sand drifts are covering the service road to the groyne as you can see in the early 80's image below, to access the groyne you then have to negotiate a step or rock to get on the groyne. The arrows in the image above indicate the rocks and height difference if you tried to access the groyne from the sand even though this image is recent it gives an idea of what this was like. This couldn't be done even by beach inspectors in their 4WD's from memory.

If you want to eliminate options you would have to eliminate access to groyne.

The Fiat could access the sand from the sand drifts going over the service road or from the northern access ramp near the boat shed, if the report describing the service road and sand conditions is accurate.

Anaylsying the report Car-in-surf- Mystery Deepens snipped " ... Divers on Friday received a floormat thought to have come from the boot of the Fiat. It was found next to the groyne. The entry point of the car in the water remains a mystery. There was no evidence such as scrape marks, that the car had been driven or pushed off the groyne. To drive from the service road around the walkway to the groyne would have involved negotiating deep sand drifts that have blown across the walkway. The officer …….of a bitumen service road that … from Marine Parade to the Cottesloe SLSC and boatshed. Such an entry would involve running the car off a 1 m concrete retaining wall across a narrow stretch of sand and into the surf. ..."

I don't have an accurate date and only have this poor quality copy first posted on w.s. but assume it is 27 or 28th June from the way it talks about dates the floor mat and car being recovered. It is fairly soon after the recovery and seems to be stating facts about the conditions. There is a image that has been clipped from this article on the left that may be the one no name was searching for when they said they'd seen an image showing the access road and beach.

I'm interested that it's the only report I've seen that mentions the roof being bashed in by the groyne or the only report to mention any damage to the car, and it does say the car was found well away from the groyne. "...The roof of the medium sized Sedan, a Fiat 125 about 18 years old had been caved in by being pushed against the rocks at Cottesloe Groyne. ...It was found about 35m off the beach well away from the groyne. ..."

Note that this historical photo from the 70s or early 80's shows the kiosk building before the ugly half cylinder building that was there in 1988. There is also a very high tide which wasn't the case in June 20 -22 1988. Tide was low around 8.30 -10 pm at night and high 12 hours later around 10.00 am the next morning. It had risen around 24 cm in this time. (Table previously shown in w.s.)
Source: https://www.google.com.au/imgres?im...0saQwJLXAhUGULwKHY-qDgA4ZBAzCEAoPTA9..i&w=761

Source: Perth newspaper 27th or 28th June 1988

 

[Innerchild]

I recon the Spectacles wetlands needs a thorough search for SS. Freeway Sth, Ankatel rd off ramp, turn right then left into Spectacles drive. No vehicle access now so take your bike & park your car along Mandogalup rd by a house for vehicle safety & ride in. )

PSC I'm interested if you expect SS to somehow be above ground and just not seen for over 20 years?

Otherwise, being a 4WD enthusiast and often going on remote tracks I'm aware of how much land is out there, so how would you expect anyone to find SS unless she was above ground, if you didn't have an exact co-ordinates?

Even with directions on where to go to park in The Spectacles there is so much area to cover, so what would you be expecting to find?