Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #18

[meticulously]

These are 4 pics of the car , retrieved on cott beach, june 22nd .
Also the car from the missing person poster .
That car may or may not be JC's car afaik.
For comparison of the cars,pics are merged .

all sourced from previous WS posts .

 

[petedavo.au]

PD, the point I was making was if the sand drifts are covering the service road to the groyne as you can see in the early 80's image below, to access the groyne you then have to negotiate a step or rock to get on the groyne. The arrows in the image above indicate the rocks and height difference if you tried to access the groyne from the sand even though this image is recent it gives an idea of what this was like. This couldn't be done even by beach inspectors in their 4WD's from memory.

If you want to eliminate options you would have to eliminate access to groyne.

The Fiat could access the sand from the sand drifts going over the service road or from the northern access ramp near the boat shed, if the report describing the service road and sand conditions is accurate.

Anaylsying the report Car-in-surf- Mystery Deepens snipped " ... Divers on Friday received a floormat thought to have come from the boot of the Fiat. It was found next to the groyne. The entry point of the car in the water remains a mystery. There was no evidence such as scrape marks, that the car had been driven or pushed off the groyne. To drive from the service road around the walkway to the groyne would have involved negotiating deep sand drifts that have blown across the walkway. The officer …….of a bitumen service road that … from Marine Parade to the Cottesloe SLSC and boatshed. Such an entry would involve running the car off a 1 m concrete retaining wall across a narrow stretch of sand and into the surf. ..."

I don't have an accurate date and only have this poor quality copy first posted on w.s. but assume it is 27 or 28th June from the way it talks about dates the floor mat and car being recovered. It is fairly soon after the recovery and seems to be stating facts about the conditions. There is a image that has been clipped from this article on the left that may be the one no name was searching for when they said they'd seen an image showing the access road and beach.

I'm interested that it's the only report I've seen that mentions the roof being bashed in by the groyne or the only report to mention any damage to the car, and it does say the car was found well away from the groyne. "...The roof of the medium sized Sedan, a Fiat 125 about 18 years old had been caved in by being pushed against the rocks at Cottesloe Groyne. ...It was found about 35m off the beach well away from the groyne. ..."

Note that this historical photo from the 70s or early 80's shows the kiosk building before the ugly half cylinder building that was there in 1988. There is also a very high tide which wasn't the case in June 20 -22 1988. Tide was low around 8.30 -10 pm at night and high 12 hours later around 10.00 am the next morning. It had risen around 24 cm in this time. (Table previously shown in w.s.)
Source: https://www.google.com.au/imgres?im...0saQwJLXAhUGULwKHY-qDgA4ZBAzCEAoPTA9..i&w=761

Source: Perth newspaper 27th or 28th June 1988

Yes I remember that old building from when Dad took us to Cottesloe in late 1960's and early 1970's. It was gone by the 1980's when I visited again.

Anyhow, the car, and how it got into the water, isn't giving up clues as to why it came to be in the water.

I think we have to look at the other incidents surrounding the Cutler case.

If we could deduce a motive, then this might give us a suspect.

Possible motives?
Suicide
Insurance fraud
Accident misadventure
Accident hit n run cover-up
Revenge (stalked)
Kidnap for ransom gone wrong
Opportunist attack (maybe sexual)
Stalked for other reasons
Road rage

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[no name]

IC - why do you think theres a step up to the groyne? The path often had some sand blowing across it but it was a well used walking path so it was kept quite clean of sand. It has always been flat, straight past the old kids pool and onto the groyne. I dont trust the "deep sand drift" quoting anymore than I trust the 1m drop to the sand, the different distances quoted regarding its location, whether it was found upside down or not or whether the drivers door was "flapping" open or simply unlocked. I doubt the build up if sand would hinder a car being able to drive along that path, if thats where it went, & theres no doubt in my mind there wasnt a step or a rock to negotiate to drive onto the groyne

 

[meticulously]

This car is possibly similar and used for the poster or ,
Its actually JC's car ?

Pictures edited by me for improved clarity

 

[no name]

What if the car was run off the end of the end of the groyne, flipped at some point and the paint was left on underwater rocks therefore making it invisible to the cops. If JC was abducted in her car & the drivers door did not open from the outside, does it make sense that the damage to the passenger side was done by a person kicking the doors to try to get access after she'd locked it to stop them. Of course you'd expect that if it were someone she didnt know, she'd attempt to drive away. But, if it was someone she knew, perhaps the urgency the flee wasnt such & she was just sitting in the car dealing with the situation at hand, perhaps pleading with them to just stop.
Im tending to agree with PCS on this one, I think it was someone she knew no matter how loosely acquainted. Either that or the yellow toyota guy from the Hill St attack came back for another go.

 

[Canning Vale]

If JC was in the BLF when it went into the ocean:

1. It’s possible she had already unbuckled her seatbelt.

2. If JC was raised in Australia it’s highly likely she could swim to shore.

3. Perhaps JC sprained or broke an arm/leg during the tumble/crash into the ocean

4. Perhaps with a broken limb she wasn’t able to swim and drowned.

As the driver's door was open, it's likely JC or someone was conscious and able to open it.

It would seem the passenger side doors were unable to be opened, due to the damage sustained.

 

[meticulously]

IC - why do you think theres a step up to the groyne? The path often had some sand blowing across it but it was a well used walking path so it was kept quite clean of sand. It has always been flat, straight past the old kids pool and onto the groyne. I dont trust the "deep sand drift" quoting anymore than I trust the 1m drop to the sand, the different distances quoted regarding its location, whether it was found upside down or not or whether the drivers door was "flapping" open or simply unlocked. I doubt the build up if sand would hinder a car being able to drive along that path, if thats where it went, & theres no doubt in my mind there wasnt a step or a rock to negotiate to drive onto the groyne

Noname thanks for the detailed opinion about that sand build up on a path .

There is something that i want to be considered that might add to help deduce the possibilities of the pathway.
So you or other sleuths can think about the sand on path a bit more thoughtfully .

From the copious amounts of study on the weather found ( that actually covered weeks) the info i found and read , including PeteDavo's links "Singa Sea" shipwreck , it is apparent that there had been relentless frontal weather conditions before and after JCs disappearance.
The winds would have been blowing hard at times from the north and northwest therefore possibly building up more sand than normal .
The northwest wind blew hard on morning of 24th june aswell .
And thats right about before or when the newspaper articles were written .
What is the date of the article that said about the sand build up ?

Circled in black on left, is a strong N-NW wind zone , Friday 24th june .
http://www.ecmwf.int/en/research/climate-reanalysis/era-interim

 

[Innerchild]

IC - why do you think theres a step up to the groyne? The path often had some sand blowing across it but it was a well used walking path so it was kept quite clean of sand. It has always been flat, straight past the old kids pool and onto the groyne. I dont trust the "deep sand drift" quoting anymore than I trust the 1m drop to the sand, the different distances quoted regarding its location, whether it was found upside down or not or whether the drivers door was "flapping" open or simply unlocked. I doubt the build up if sand would hinder a car being able to drive along that path, if thats where it went, & theres no doubt in my mind there wasnt a step or a rock to negotiate to drive onto the groyne

You're exactly right. Depends how the sand drifts were whether you could step up or not from the sand. With the redevelopment and in the 2017 image the groyne access was built up from the sand and stairs added. Sometimes there would be a step up and I remember vehicles couldn't access groyne at those times. Just trying to look at how much or little you can take from the reports. Not being a quote from Katich takes it a notch down in authenticity IMO. On the other hand it could be a reporters unbiased observation? Mu opinions only.

 

[Innerchild]

Thanks for improving the images of JC's car on the missing poster metic.

There is no doubt that it was JC's car retrieved at Cottesloe beach on 22nd June 1988. It was said to be a similar car on the poster, so it is not JC's car on the poster.

However, even asking that gives an idea on the severity of the crush damage to the roof of the vehicle and why papertrail thought it may have been a convertible that was retrieved IMO.

 

[no name]

Met - it makes no difference to me how the car got into the water or from where. Nor do I care who thinks this that or the other... None of us know what happened. The cops dont know what happened, or if they do, they're not saying. What I do know is it was a determined effort by whoever wanted to put the car in the drink and they succeeded. We dont even know if it had anything to do with her disappearance or not. So, in reality, how it got there is of no importance to working out what happened to her IMO, unless you think it was a suicide attempt or she drowned...which I dont.

 

[meticulously]

Thanks for improving the images of JC's car on the missing poster metic.

There is no doubt that it was JC's car retrieved at Cottesloe beach on 22nd June 1988. It was said to be a similar car on the poster, so it is not JC's car on the poster.

However, even asking that gives an idea on the severity of the crush damage to the roof of the vehicle and why papertrail thought it may have been a convertible that was retrieved IMO.

Thank you for the poster picture Innerchild.

Forgot2 credit u did i ?

 

[Innerchild]

Retrieved car was a Fiat 125. Here is a comparison of the rear view of 1968 Fiat 125. You can see the tail lights and rear bumper are the same and you can just make out the Fiat 125 rear badge on the retrieved car.

Source: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...hVEJJQKHdKVAbQQ9QEILjAC#imgrc=L4cMef5d_CwgjM:

 

[Innerchild]

Thank you for the poster picture Innerchild.

Forgot2 credit u did i ?

Not my images, my posts deleted before even if sources provided.

Credit the newspaper source the poster was published in. Daily News Thursday June 30[SUP]th[/SUP] For God’s sake let her go pg 1 and 2.Sister’s pea for lost Julie. By Norm Aisbett

Retrieved Fiat image: The Sunday Times July 16th 2000. Was Julie First Victim? - Claremont Serial Killings by John Flint pg 2

 

[meticulously]

These are 4 pics of the car , retrieved on cott beach, june 22nd .
Also the car from the missing person poster .
That car may or may not be JC's car afaik.
For comparison of the cars,pics are merged .

all sourced from previous WS posts .

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13722823

Ok , its too late to edit the post now ,
hope this helps .

Poster picture ;
From Innerchild , "Source is :
Daily News Thursday June 30th For God’s sake let her go , pg 1 and 2.
Sister’s pea for lost Julie. By Norm Aisbett"

"Retrieved Fiat image:
"The Sunday Times July 16th 2000.
Was Julie First Victim? - Claremont Serial Killings by John Flint pg 2"

 

[petedavo.au]

IC - why do you think theres a step up to the groyne? The path often had some sand blowing across it but it was a well used walking path so it was kept quite clean of sand. It has always been flat, straight past the old kids pool and onto the groyne. I dont trust the "deep sand drift" quoting anymore than I trust the 1m drop to the sand, the different distances quoted regarding its location, whether it was found upside down or not or whether the drivers door was "flapping" open or simply unlocked. I doubt the build up if sand would hinder a car being able to drive along that path, if thats where it went, & theres no doubt in my mind there wasnt a step or a rock to negotiate to drive onto the groyne

You're exactly right. Depends how the sand drifts were whether you could step up or not from the sand. With the redevelopment and in the 2017 image the groyne access was built up from the sand and stairs added. Sometimes there would be a step up and I remember vehicles couldn't access groyne at those times. Just trying to look at how much or little you can take from the reports. Not being a quote from Katich takes it a notch down in authenticity IMO. On the other hand it could be a reporters unbiased observation? Mu opinions only.

Is there a picture of this set up-to the groyne? It looks like a flat roadway to me.

..The Post Newspaper 28/01/2017: Shark fishermen on Groyne, January 2017
From: https://web.archive.org/web/2017012....com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/280117.pdf via @internetarchive

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[Pandit]

Some info on the car, I've looked at the rear badge on the Fiat and pretty sure it's not a 125S so we can in all probability assume it was either a 4 or 5 speed manual, not an auto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_125

Also, interesting to note is that Fiat 125 rust horror stories abound all over the internet.

"And even by 1975 plenty of 'em were secretly accumulating rust."

https://www.tradeuniquecars.com.au/feature-cars/1308/fiat-125-review

There's why the roof just caved in after rocking about on the ocean floor for two days and dragging it out roof down, as a twenty year old car it was likely full of rust and structurally unsound. Ie. It was starting to fall apart anyway.

 

[Annalise]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s/news-story/a375d929456d63f84ac5afc93c6d3c66

I wonder what the documents were that the accused wanted from the prosecutors? That was back in Feb 24 at the court hearing from Hakea. MOO

 

[petedavo.au]

Source: Caller Claims She Is Missing Woman_Tuesday 28 June 1988

...near the groyne. ...

We found many inconstant reports of where the car was found and how far from groyne and whether it was upside down or not. Car in surf Mystery (below) says well away from groyne, and others say close to groyne, 100 north and 50 m out to sea, most say 35 m out to sea.

I've just tried to zoom in and transcribe more from car-in-surf- mystery. Report says the roof of car had been caved in by being pushed against rocks of the groyne. Even though the same report says it can't have entered the water off the groyne and was found well away from groyne.

It's the first report however that I've seen that says the damage to the roof of car was caused before it was retrieved.

Car in the Surf Mystery Deepens Police divers searched the main Cottesloe beach on Friday (24[SUP]th[/SUP] June?) for clues to the missing Fremantle woman, Julie Cutler (22). Miss Cultler …

...The roof of the medium sized Sedan, a Fiat 125 about 18 years old had been caved in by being pushed against the rocks at Cottesloe Groyne.

It was found about 35m off the beach well away from the groyne.

Divers on Friday (24th June) received a floormat thought to have come from the boot of the Fiat. It was found next to the groyne.

The entry point of the car in the water remains a mystery.

There was no evidence such as scrape marks, that the car had been driven or pushed off the groyne. To drive from the service road around the walkway to the groyne would have involved negotiating deep sand drifts that have blown across the walkway.

The officer …….of a bitumen service road that … from Marine Parade to the Cottesloe SLSC and boatshed. Such an entry would involve running the car off a 1 m concrete retaining wall across a narrow stretch of sand and into the surf. ...

Daily News Thursday June 30th For God’s sake let her go , pg 1 and 2.

Sister’s pea for lost Julie. By Norm Aisbett"

It's interesting that Julie's sister might think that there's a possibility that Julie was abducted and being held. Police will never allow publicising a ransom demand or let on if they considered her disappearance being a kidnapping. The only time I've known of kidnappings to be in the press in Australia is when families go against police wishes and tell the press or the abductor communicates via the press. Julie was last sighted at the Hotel carpark, but her car is not found for a number of days. If Innerchild is correct, then the car did not enter the water (at a very public place) until a few hours before it was discovered. (Is that the equivalent to posting a finger in the mail?) Then the family pleads for her release in the Daily News. What's actually going on here?

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[meticulously]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_fid=730&share_type=t&share_pid=12893280


http://googleweblight.com/?lite_url...e to come forward and contact Crimestoppers."

 

[no name]

I wonder what the documents were that the accused wanted from the prosecutors? That was back in Feb 24 at the court hearing from Hakea. MOO

You must mean January as he wasnt in court February. The defense is waiting on documents outlining what their case is against him & what evidence they have used to charge him. The recent delay is either because they're awaiting analysis on things they've obtained since his arrest ie his computers etc or anything new thats come to light, or if we are to believe he wasnt on their radar for that long prior to arrest, they need time to put it all together.