Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #18

[Pandit]

Yes, a major concern for Fiat afficionados. In this case we'd need a study specifically of a twenty year old 125 Fiat being dragged out of the ocean after two days roof down pulling in sand somewhat like a bucket over rocks and reef and seeing if the roof is still in tact. Flat as a tack would be my bet.

As said, there are numerous reports of them, in hidden places accumulating rust just after eight years, generally considered the worst of it's generation and class.

Rust certainly could be a concern Pandit. The 1980 American Department of Transport tests that tested 12 year old cars, including the 1968 Fiat passed it while failing 10 other makes and models of 12 year old sedans, however. The simulated crash tests in 1980 showed a remarkable strength in the Fiat's car body. Calculated forces using these tests, and a 1968 Fiat 125 being hit by a train, as controls indicated similar forces to create the damage would include being dropped on its roof 30 times from a 1 m height onto a hard surface, or a one ton force being applied directly down on the roof for 30 seconds for example. I allowed a 30 % variation for inaccuracies and / or rust but I'm suggesting it would need to be a 300% difference to explain the damage that occurred.

 

[Ewood66]

Ewood, if you don't mind answering a few questions, how many students were in your graduating Yr 12 class? Did you keep in contact with Ciara after she finished school? How close was the contact with Corpus Cristi church? Did the girls attend mass there during the day at all or were the priest involved at all in any religious teachings?

There were 90-100 students in my Year 12 class... think it was closer to 90, but it was over 30 years ago! CG was the year below me. I wasn't best buddies with her but knew her. Masses were often said at the church, especially year and school masses, graduations, first communions, confirmations etc all done in the Church. The school chapel was small, if I remember rightly, mainly only had year masses in the school chapel in year 11 and 12 as less students. The priest wasn't involved in any of the religious teachings, it was done by the class teacher or one of the nuns (which was often the class teacher also). When I went there, most year classes has 2 head teachers, usually a nun and a lay teacher, although the nuns started to thin out after a while, so was often 2 lay teachers. Throughout my primary and highschool (all at Iona! lol), I think there was only one or two priests at that church, i remember Father Rogers.

 

[Ewood66]

Yes, a major concern for Fiat afficionados. In this case we'd need a study specifically of a twenty year old 125 Fiat being dragged out of the ocean after two days roof down pulling in sand somewhat like a bucket over rocks and reef and seeing if the roof is still in tact. Flat as a tack would be my bet.

As said, there are numerous reports of them, in hidden places accumulating rust just after eight years, generally considered the worst of it's generation and class.

Also worth noting, it wasn't just the body of Fiats that were a problem... FIAT did stand for Fix it Again Tony!

 

[petedavo.au]

Do we know if any of our suspects may have been back in the day, rally car drivers? Even try hard amateur.

I'm a bit stuck on this metal/steel bucket racing seat. And the gloves the victim (I assume) described as being abrasive, they could be drivers gloves standard used for grip on the steering wheel. There's also the manner in which JC's car was ditched (only three weeks after the Sheraton abduction) into the sea that could smack of adrenaline charged over the top hoon driving, if it wasn't just pushed in.

Back in the late 70's, early 80's car enthusiasts shops were popular. They sold all sorts of goodies for hotting up your panel van, Torana, or even a Toyota corolla. A couple I remember well we're Checkers and Goodies in Vic Park. Goodies was bought by Marlows, which had since sold to Supercheap. These days none of them sell that stuff, but back then, such rally seats and stuff were a popular sale item.

The Telstra Rally was held at Burswood and at Curtin in the first year. I took my stepson along. It moved to Riverside Drive after that.

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[Innerchild]

Paraphrased relevant details from article "Midnight Fear Prowls Streets" - Daily News 24Jun88. Original posted previously.

28May88 - The 44 year old women had left Clouds Nightclub at the Sheraton, crossed Adelaide Terrace and got into her car on Hill st when at 1.05am man wearing driving gloves came from nowhere, like lightning and wrenched her out of her car by her hair.
What followed was such a systematic & sadistic bashing that police were to find clumps of her hair the next day amongst blood and pearls from her necklace he'd torn from her neck in his frenzy of pulverizing blows.
She believes he's in his 20's-30's.
He snarled "you stupid ******ing *****, you're going to die, you're going to die" over and over again, the words never changed.
He ground the abrasive palm into her face, Repeatedly punching her in the mouth. He bashed her against a brick wall, dragged her to a span of metal poles and beat her like a doll against them. He dragged her across the street into a courier car park, flung her face down and stepped on the base of her spine. He punched her kidneys and ground her face into the ground. Her bladder and bowels gave way.
He pulled her arms behind her and wrapped them in parcel tape stolen from the couriers. He tied the cummerbund from her dress around her mouth and then taped her ankles.
She thought she was about to be raped, instead he kept running the sticky tape around her until she was wrapped like an egyptian mummy, a cocoon.
He heaved her into the metal bucket seat of a small yellow car, possibly a toyota, when she heard the radio DJ say it was 3.45am.
She was thrown out of the car at Centenary Drive in Wilson where he ground her face into the blue metal, said "right ***** your dead" & threw plastic sheeting over her.
She listened to the car drive off, pulled the tape off and was found by a Swan Taxi driver who took her to Mount St Hospital.

Here are some pictures of Midnight Fear Prowls Streets and the subheading I think may have been "Predators prowl where cops never patrol" and Bashed for 3 hours

There was the subheading in JC's headlines Daily News Friday 24[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988 Beach Hunt Goes on for Missing Girl. Hotels worry that a maniac is stalking Perth’s women. Seemed hotels were a hunting ground and cops never patrolled.

Source: The Daily News June 22 or 24 1988 of attack on woman on May 28th 1988

 

[meticulously]

Here are some pictures of Midnight Fear Prowls Streets and the subheading I think may have been "Predators prowl where cops never patrol" and Bashed for 3 hours

There was the subheading in JC's headlines Daily News Friday 24[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988 Beach Hunt Goes on for Missing Girl. Hotels worry that a maniac is stalking Perth’s women. Seemed hotels were a hunting ground and cops never patrolled.

Source: The Daily News June 22 or 24 1988 of attack on woman on May 28th 1988

Top right corner it looks like ;
Wednesday 22 june

And saw written "dorothy" left clouds disco...

 

[janwa]

Rust certainly could be a concern Pandit. The 1980 American Department of Transport tests that tested 12 year old cars, including the 1968 Fiat passed it while failing 10 other makes and models of 12 year old sedans, however. The simulated crash tests in 1980 showed a remarkable strength in the Fiat's car body. Calculated forces using these tests, and a 1968 Fiat 125 being hit by a train, as controls indicated similar forces to create the damage would include being dropped on its roof 30 times from a 1 m height onto a hard surface, or a one ton force being applied directly down on the roof for 30 seconds for example. I allowed a 30 % variation for inaccuracies and / or rust but I'm suggesting it would need to be a 300% difference to explain the damage that occurred. Just my own opinions.

I was able to understand this more simplified explanation of the power of waves. Not sure if these have already been posted.

https://ci.coastal.edu/~sgilman/770Oceansinmotion.htm

https://www.communitynews.com.au/ma...e-man-who-lost-his-car-to-surf-near-mandurah/

 

[Canning Vale]

Source Perth newspaper early June 1988.

Does that description remind anyone of Moray? Who is the woman? Seems she didn't turn up again, to answer questions. Is it just a co-incidence that a yellow car is involved or could she have been around at the other incident when the woman was based for 3 hours?

IC,

Yes he does fit the description of DM. https://www.google.com.au/thewest.com.au

Regarding the attack on the teenager the perpetrator is described as aged about 35-40, 170cms (5’5&#8221, medium build, brown hair and moustache

At the time BRE was early 20s, much taller 185cm (6’.1&#8221 muscular build with dark hair.

Regarding your theory of JCs abduction by two people. Perhaps it was someone driving a yellow Toyota.

These are only my thoughts and opinion.

 

[Pandit]

Thanks janwa.

I think maybe BLF didn't have to hit anything at all on the way into the sea if this car, a far newer model is an example of what the surf can do in just one night.

I was able to understand this more simplified explanation of the power of waves. Not sure if these have already been posted.

https://ci.coastal.edu/~sgilman/770Oceansinmotion.htm

https://www.communitynews.com.au/ma...e-man-who-lost-his-car-to-surf-near-mandurah/

 

[janwa]

The attack was in December 2003, and his trial must have been 2005. Does that mean the 13 years and 4 months without parole has been served and he is out of prison?

If so, is there any sex register that he may be on?

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/violent-attacker-is-suspect-in-murders-ng-ya-141907

Sex offenders are managed by SOMS Sex Offender Management Squad. When released they have to report to the office varying times i.e. weekly, monthly 3 monthly etc depends on compliance. Must give addresses, emails, phone nos. Inform the squad of any children in house where staying. I believe they stay on the register here for 15yrs.

 

[petedavo.au]

Anyone know where Roger Sidney William Payne was on 20th June 1988? I wonder if he left the bag of clothes in the Paragon Arcade? Why choose the arcade with such an unusual name, which only the father would recognise as being the name of a mining company?

http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/article/ex-soldier-extorts-$1-4-million-from-casino-128112



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[Innerchild]

I was able to understand this more simplified explanation of the power of waves. Not sure if these have already been posted.

https://ci.coastal.edu/~sgilman/770Oceansinmotion.htm

https://www.communitynews.com.au/ma...e-man-who-lost-his-car-to-surf-near-mandurah/

That's a good simplified summary Jan. Waves are powerful but the Fiat was found under water 35 m out to sea and doesn't have those forces. If the car was in the wave zone it would have been recovered within hours as it would be easily seen. Big waves keep the vehicle against shore.

An example is the 4wd that drove into the ocean. It didn't get far and was bashed by waves for two hours until a tow vehicle could winch it out. There was some damage to the windscreen but no body damage from the waves which were much bigger that those at Cottesloe on the 22 June 1988.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/d...o-waves-at-yanchep-beach-20151006-gk2g23.html

Car V Ocean after 2 hours in surf

 

[Innerchild]

Anyone know where Roger Sidney William Payne was on 20th June 1988? I wonder if he left the bag of clothes in the Paragon Arcade? Why choose the arcade with such an unusual name, which only the father would recognise as being the name of a mining company?

http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/article/ex-soldier-extorts-$1-4-million-from-casino-128112

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Very interesting PD. Paragon Arcade... Paragon Mining... Was JC's father living in Kalgoorlie, invested or working in the company?

If it was a message to him, it may have backfired a bit as no one handed the bag of clothes to police for a year!

<modsnip>

 

[Spinnaker]

Top right corner it looks like ;
Wednesday 22 june

And saw written "dorothy" left clouds disco...

Here is the article Met with headline "Hotels worry that a maniac is stalking Perth's women"

 

[meticulously]

That's a good simplified summary Jan. Waves are powerful but the Fiat was found under water 35 m out to sea and doesn't have those forces. If the car was in the wave zone it would have been recovered within hours as it would be easily seen. Big waves keep the vehicle against shore.

An example is the 4wd that drove into the ocean. It didn't get far and was bashed by waves for two hours until a tow vehicle could winch it out. There was some damage to the windscreen but no body damage from the waves which were much bigger that those at Cottesloe on the 22 June 1988.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/d...o-waves-at-yanchep-beach-20151006-gk2g23.html

Car V Ocean after 2 hours in surf

IC, That car has big wheels though and it doesnt compare closely to the cottesloe beach scenario .

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/d...o-waves-at-yanchep-beach-20151006-gk2g23.html

 

[Innerchild]

Top right corner it looks like ;
Wednesday 22 june

And saw written "dorothy" left clouds disco...

I was talking of two different articles. You'd think cops might have beefed up patrols after the Sheraton incident.

Predictors prowl where cops never patrol - Bashed for 3 hours on 22 July about the woman called "Dorothy" attacked coming out of Sheraton nightclub on 28th May, 1988.

Other article was on JC last seen at Parmelia staff carpark 20th June 1988 with subheading Hotels worry that a maniac is stalking Perth women.

 

[Spinnaker]

Top right corner it looks like ;
Wednesday 22 june

And saw written "dorothy" left clouds disco...

Below article shows a photo of what JC's Parmelia Hilton uniform looked like. Having worked in 5 star hotels in late 80's and early 90's I can confidently state that this uniform was very standard in the industry. Indeed the uniform at the Sheraton night club (Clouds) was very similar.

The "Midnight Fear Prowls Streets" (24 June 1988) article mentions that the Sheraton attacker tied the cummerbund from the victim's dress around her mouth.

It was very common for the 5 star uniforms to also include cummerbunds - seems like the Sheraton victim was wearing her work uniform.

As mentioned previously we therefore have two hotel workers, who wore similar work uniforms, one brutally attacked and one disappear in a very close timeframe - 28th May 1988 and 20th June 1988.

Both ladies also left their workplace at similar time - JC 12:30am and the Sheraton victim around 12:45am given the comments regards to the DJ/radio in the car mentioning the time being 03:45 am.

 

[Innerchild]

IC, That car has big wheels though and it doesnt compare closely to the cottesloe beach scenario .

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/d...o-waves-at-yanchep-beach-20151006-gk2g23.html

snipped

big wheels...

...all the better to disappear into the ocean with my dear!!

 

[meticulously]

big wheels...

...all the better to disappear into the ocean with my dear!!

The body of the car is above water whereas JC's was further out ,
Possibly in the waves

 

[meticulously]

Thanks for the pictures spinnaker.
Had a go at editing part of the picture you posted. Still cant read it

Anybody able to decipher this ?