Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #20

[Spooks-R-Us]

I'm loving this line of reasoning. IF there was some "out of hours" get togethers...wouldn't someone have come forward and spoken up? i.e. "Hey I say that person you are looking for (JR) at our special get together club on the morning she went missing?"

The only after hours thing going on would be staffies because licencing still apply after hours ... in my experience unless someone was a partner they would not be at staffies, you should not take some random person to them in other words

I don't know , but I doubt staffies would be held upstairs ... you really need to find someone who worked there to know the after hour drinks policy ... also 2 hours after closing does not seem likely

To jump from photos of the lady leaving the pub at midnight to her escaping from it at 2 am is a bit extreme in my opinion , but what would I know[/QUOTE]

I assume after closing time, it's takes a while to get rid of last punters.

Then I'm guessing bar and floor staff do a clean-up, preparing bar for the next day. So this would probably take better part of an hour, especially on a busy weekend night.

Then Staffies on top of that. So easily staff would still be there 2 hours after closing time.

Back then 'liquor laws' not apply during staffies because staff drinks were free and there was no exchange of money.


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[El Gordo]

I assume after closing time, it's takes a while to get rid of last punters.

Then I'm guessing bar and floor staff do a clean-up, preparing bar for the next day. So this would probably take better part of an hour, especially on a busy weekend night.

Then Staffies on top of that. So easily staff would still be there 2 hours after closing time.

Back then 'liquor laws' not apply during staffies because staff drinks were free and there was no exchange of money.


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
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Not meaning to argue , but the liquor laws still applied still applied if you paid or not , you were on licensed premises ... also staffies were entirely up to management , how many and how long , not related to cleaning at all ... I would also think it was Saturday night , a lot of staff would be wanting to get out of there ASAP to go clubbing

Most of the cleaning is done long after the bar staff are gone , cleaners come into do floors , toilets etc. ... this is not the work of the bar staff

Ive run security in several pubs / clubs and understand how the system works , if you had a run in with liquor and gaming you did not have staffies until all was forgiven , because the laws did apply , they were just not enforced

 

[lampformypath]

Mr Ardley is an electronics IT specialist in security

WOMENS CLOTHING RIDDLE
Post Newspaper 07Jan17 - by David Cohen

Police have asked a Floreat man for more information about the 1988 theft of women's clothing from his washing line in Huntingdale.

The request came just days before ******* ******* was charged with the murders of Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon.
Floreat resident Jeremy Ardley lived in Huntingdale in 1988. Mr ******* has been charged with indecently assaulting an 18 year old Huntingdale women in 1988.

"The police called us up about that a few days before the recent arrest of ******* *******" Mr Ardley said.

Mr Ardley said police asked him if he recalled anything about the 28 year old crime, in which women's sports apparel had been stolen.
"They asked ' do you recall anything unusual in the area around that date?'" Mr Ardley said.

source: Post Newspaper 07Jan17 - by David Cohen

Brilliant Credulious thanks for sharing that! Women's sports apparel? So not just the fetching "kimono"? Now I have images of the CSK (whoever that may be) leaping about in leotards and let's face it, there aren't too many men who look good in Lycra, and men in ladies Lycra, oh the mental pictures!

Another thinking out loud... could the CSK have a silky/shining ladies undies/lingerie thing going on from very young? I know WS went down the cross-dressing path before, not meaning to take us down/up that "laneway" again, but I have friends who have children with Autism and silky fabrics, touching, holding, hugging them near their faces, bring them calmness and great joy. Could this be how it started for BRE as a child? Just throwing this out there.

 

[petedavo.au]

Fantastic information Spooks! I think I read this way back somewhere in my research on other serial killers, but it just amazes me how this familial DNA can catch these blokes who really think they are so incredibly clever. They have eluded police for so many years that they'll never get caught. Makes you wonder if the CSK might have sent something to Police before JR teasing them that he had done it before with SS and he was about to do it again, and when JR was killed they instantly knew they had a serial killer and announced it to the public straight away? Stranger things have happened. Perhaps these 3 women were his perfect fantasy killings, his attempt to be "famous" as a SK? Just thinking out loud again, as I've mentioned before, not always a good idea. :thinking:

Might be worth going through old threads where phone calls were made as reported in the media to victims families, and find that Post newspaper article about the Claremont Ghost videos as well. It might well come out in court that other victims, witnesses mentioned in the media at the time, and police might've got phone calls or messages from someone in such a fashion. IMO

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[petedavo.au]

Brilliant Credulious thanks for sharing that! Women's sports apparel? So not just the fetching "kimono"? Now I have images of the CSK (whoever that may be) leaping about in leotards and let's face it, there aren't too many men who look good in Lycra, and men in ladies Lycra, oh the mental pictures!

Another thinking out loud... could the CSK have a silky/shining ladies undies/lingerie thing going on from very young? I know WS went down the cross-dressing path before, not meaning to take us down/up that "laneway" again, but I have friends who have children with Autism and silky fabrics, touching, holding, hugging them near their faces, bring them calmness and great joy. Could this be how it started for BRE as a child? Just throwing this out there.

There was a lot of Bush surrounding his parents property back in those days, where he probably spent a lot of time playing *with* himself, and whatever he found.
Oops
Correction: *by*

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[Credulious]

I would be looking at womens sporting apparel of the day in 1988

Don't think active wear was fashion of the day. What did women wear playing sports in 1988?

What does a man want of womens sporting apparel in the day?

Brilliant Credulious thanks for sharing that! Women's sports apparel? So not just the fetching "kimono"? Now I have images of the CSK (whoever that may be) leaping about in leotards and let's face it, there aren't too many men who look good in Lycra, and men in ladies Lycra, oh the mental pictures!

Another thinking out loud... could the CSK have a silky/shining ladies undies/lingerie thing going on from very young? I know WS went down the cross-dressing path before, not meaning to take us down/up that "laneway" again, but I have friends who have children with Autism and silky fabrics, touching, holding, hugging them near their faces, bring them calmness and great joy. Could this be how it started for BRE as a child? Just throwing this out there.

 

[Credulious]

Was the clothes line cord itself taken? There is no mention of this by Mr Ardely.

"Police have asked a Floreat man for more information about the 1988 theft of women's clothing from his washing line in Huntingdale."

Title:Womens Clothing Riddle
Post Newspaper 07 January 2017
Author: David Cohen

 

[Credulious]

So where did the washing line cord come from allegedly used on Ciara and Karrakatta sexual assault?

Are we talking multiple washing line thefts?

Police allege that Mr Edwards was the person who committed an attack on a woman in Huntingdale, Perth, in 1988.

The alleged attack took place on February 17 when a man walked into a house and lay on top of a sleeping 18-year-old girl.
The attacker dropped an embroidered silk kimono dressing gown taken from a clothes line before the attack.


Bradley Edwards has also been charged for the sexual assault of a girl in the suburb of Claremont.

In the early hours of February 12, 1995, a 17-year-old was walking home from a club through Rowe Park in Claremont when she was abducted by a man.

The attacker tied her with cord, placed a hood over her head and forced her into a vehicle.

She was driven one kilometre away to Karrakatta Cemetery, where she was raped and left.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...3d0514998ce800dab1751f64164572?from=rss-basic

 

[Canning Vale]

My thoughts regarding the HD incident (Feb 1988). We know the police would have collected a statement and made a police report – recording it onto WAPOLs system. Perhaps the kimono and whatever else was recorded on WAPOLs archive system, placed in a box, and put on a shelf within their archive building - no DNA recorded.

Like most government departments, I suppose the archival area was considered low priority - not receiving any priority, funding for resources to work on a backlog of registrations.

Throughout the years WAPOL probably needed to concentrate their funds and resources into solving the Claremont killings. A box flagged Huntingdale was probably overlooked as being in connection to abductions in Claremont.

At some stage,perhaps early 2010s funding was finally sourced to work on a backlog of cases,such as recording DNA into the data base – at that stage, the HD box was probably selected and processed – the DNA registered then.

Perhaps Macro regularly ran the DNA data base (manually) for a match. I’m not sure if the DNA software has the capabilities of sending an email, once matching DNA or familial DNA is entered onto the system.

In 1988 we didn’t have email and any DNA software was probably quite basic. Not until the software was continuously updated would it have been sophisticated enough to notify someone.

These are only my thoughts and opinions.

 

[LennyAustralia]

Reposting the photo of Kimono - assume this is a replica kimono and hopefully not THE Kimono?

The only DNA on the Kimono would be blood or semen...... I'm guessing semen! it's1988 remember, not CSI Miami.

 

[janwa]

Im not totally sure but I think in WA if are pulled over now for breath test they also take swabs for drug tests , they also take blood samples I think if you are over the limit ... These would qualify as Dna but whether they are are kept as such I do not know
since the late 80s it was the case if you were charged for a crime they asked to take Dna samples at the same time they took fingerprints ... This was when charged , not when found guilty ... I don't imagine this has changed ... That is how they got the data base
and the obvious may have been looking us in the face , maybe it was a simple roadside booze bus or policeman with a reason to breath test etc. that got the Dna that led to a conviction

https://www.police.wa.gov.au/Crime/Identifying-people/DNA-samples
[h=1]DNA samples[/h]Police can take samples from people charged with, or suspected of, committing a serious offence that carries a statutory penalty of 12 months or more, regardless of the actual sentence imposed.

[h=3]What is DNA?[/h]DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) carries genetic information passed on to you from your mother and father and determines your physical characteristics.
A DNA sample is a collection of cells from your body. The type of sample that police usually collect from you is a buccal swab (a mouth swab). The law also allows police to take other samples, such as hair or blood in some instances if you don't agree to give a mouth swab.
[h=3]How is a DNA sample taken?[/h]If the sample is by mouth swab, it simply involves wiping a swab inside your mouth. You will be asked to do the mouth swab yourself, under police direction. The swab is like a large cotton bud and does not hurt you.
When a sample of hair is required, police will pull a number of hairs from your leg, arm or head.
If difficulty is experienced in obtaining either of these samples, police are authorised to take a sample of your blood. This is a simple finger prick blood sample, which some police are qualified to do.
All of these procedures are simple and will not harm you.
[h=3]What happens next?[/h]A DNA profile is obtained from the sample. The profile is then recorded on a DNA database. It will then be compared with DNA samples collected from crime scenes to see if they match. Your DNA sample will not be tested for drugs.
[h=3]Sample use and destruction[/h]If you volunteer your sample, you may decide whether to:

• limit the purposes for which it is used, or
• allow it to be used for unlimited forensic purposes.

You may also decide how long this information may be held by police.
As a witness or a victim of an offence, you may decide whether to:

• limit the purposes for which your sample may be used, or
• allow the sample to be used for unlimited forensic purposes.

If you are a suspect for an offence then you may request your identifying particulars be destroyed if, after two years:

• you have not been charged with a relevant offence; or
• you are found not guilty of the offence you were charged with.

If you have been charged with a serious offence, you may request your identifying particulars to be destroyed if you are found not guilty of the offence you were charged with.
[h=3]Sample destruction[/h]If you wish the sample to be destroyed, either you or your legal representative need to make a request in writing to: Commissioner of Police Police Headquarters 2 Adelaide Terrace East Perth WA 6004
[h=3]Where can I get help?[/h]Contact your legal representative, Legal Aid or the Aboriginal Legal Service as soon as possible if you have any concerns about consenting to a DNA sample being taken.

 

[Credulious]

The only DNA on the Kimono would be blood or semen...... I'm guessing semen! it's1988 remember, not CSI Miami.

As part of a continuing operation to retest old evidence with new technology = 2016?

http://www.news.com.au/national/cla...t/news-story/cdad7c5a6b825958b6d46cb11eb44c75

 

[petedavo.au]

Was the clothes line cord itself taken? There is no mention of this by Mr Ardely.

"Police have asked a Floreat man for more information about the 1988 theft of women's clothing from his washing line in Huntingdale."

Title:Womens Clothing Riddle
Post Newspaper 07 January 2017
Author: David Cohen

He was only one of many that reported items stolen from lines in that area.
Since there is some debate over what sort of cord was used in the Karrakatta attack, maybe that question should be was similar snowdrops conducted in the Claremont area later on?

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[no name]

The only DNA on the Kimono would be blood or semen...... I'm guessing semen! it's1988 remember, not CSI Miami.

Sorry, I dont watch CSI Miami or any other bs forensic show.

I disagree regarding 1988 too. I posted a comment recently from a forensic cop who worked on the Greenough murders who confirmed in 1993 they were working off 1 loci only and it had no identifying capacities on its own so the use of DNA testing would have been much less 5 years earlier still.

I agree with Canningvale's proposal in that I very much doubt any DNA testing was done on the Kimono at any time close to 1988. It would be my guess that the "restesting" in this case actually meant "testing" and it probably hadn't been done at all prior to 2015 at the earliest. If it had, they would have got a match way sooner considering prior suspects of CSK were ruled out in 2008. Some MSM reports say 2009, I think it was the year prior when the MM video was released. They must have been ruled out through DNA matching CG and KK. Therefore, had the kimono been tested prior, it would have been a match before 2016.
It matters not what capabilities they had in 1988.

 

[El Gordo]

The only DNA on the Kimono would be blood or semen...... I'm guessing semen! it's1988 remember, not CSI Miami.

I cannot get my head around the kimono thing .... if they Know it was stolen , they must Know where it was stolen from
If it was reported stolen they must Know who reported it
If it was taken from the house where the assault took place and dropped on the way out , then it was moved , not stolen
The DNA on the kimono I have no issue with
There is a huge difference between Believed stolen and stolen , I can believe it is a bikini if I choose to

 

[lampformypath]

I would be looking at womens sporting apparel of the day in 1988

Don't think active wear was fashion of the day. What did women wear playing sports in 1988?

What does a man want of womens sporting apparel in the day?

Something like this I think? Genuine 80s sporting apparel. Some of the images I found were too disturbing to post!!! I am speechless, I have no speech!

 

[petedavo.au]

My thoughts regarding the HD incident (Feb 1988). We know the police would have collected a statement and made a police report – recording it onto WAPOLs system. Perhaps the kimono and whatever else was recorded on WAPOLs archive system, placed in a box, and put on a shelf within their archive building - no DNA recorded.

Like most government departments, I suppose the archival area was considered low priority - not receiving any priority, funding for resources to work on a backlog of registrations.

Throughout the years WAPOL probably needed to concentrate their funds and resources into solving the Claremont killings. A box flagged Huntingdale was probably overlooked as being in connection to abductions in Claremont.

At some stage,perhaps early 2010s funding was finally sourced to work on a backlog of cases,such as recording DNA into the data base – at that stage, the HD box was probably selected and processed – the DNA registered then.

Perhaps Macro regularly ran the DNA data base (manually) for a match. I’m not sure if the DNA software has the capabilities of sending an email, once matching DNA or familial DNA is entered onto the system.

In 1988 we didn’t have email and any DNA software was probably quite basic. Not until the software was continuously updated would it have been sophisticated enough to notify someone.

These are only my thoughts and opinions.

Yes, I remember a report quite a few years back about funding being made available to review all old cold cases and do DNA testing. I'll see if I can dig it up later in the West's archives.

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[petedavo.au]

Something like this I think? Genuine 80s sporting apparel. Some of the images I found were too disturbing to post!!! I am speechless, I have no speech!

Yeah, that's the sort of sports "clothes" that my first girlfriend used to wear to Laurie Potter's Cannington in 1982.

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[El Gordo]

Something like this I think? Genuine 80s sporting apparel. Some of the images I found were too disturbing to post!!! I am speechless, I have no speech!

Having seen highlights of the 40th anniversary Mardi Gras males still wear such outfits and may have in the days they were fashionable , it certainly has a Cher look about it , If I Could Turn Back Time xxxxxxxx

 

[Kambo]

The video still image requires some explanation. It’s very strange. I see a tall man in the foreground, almost underneath the camera. A pair of legs in the shadows under the stairs and then what appears to be a girl top right. If WAPOL want the public to help then don’t edit cctv and blur things out. Hopefully the full version is played at trial.


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