Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

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Firstly, good post. This is the first time that someone has offered some logical reasoning behind why they think there is DNA. I have made many comments regarding this, offered up reasons why I slightly lean towards there no being DNA, and not one person until now has offered up a reason or wanted to delve deeper into the issue. Just silence until a later point when they pipe in with "but they have DNA".


1. This suggests they took samples but at the time were unable to get a profile. They would have taken samples from the scenes and felt that maybe later they'd be able to get something.

aside: I think in a Green River Killer doco I watched it took a long time to wait for technology advancements to catch up and get a DNA profile. I believe they had a sample and every time they tested it it would degenerate meaning every time they did a test they were risking losing what they had. I wonder how many times Macro have been to the well?

2.I've read this article a few times but don't have it handy. Are you able to post a link? BC stated that they discovered a DNA link in 2008. Why LCN 7 years later? Maybe they discovered something in 2008 but couldn't get much of a profile and only since LCN have they been able to get one?

To get a match to Karra you'd think they'd need a reasonably full profile. If there's other forensic links then maybe not so much. But if there's no other forensic link then you'd have to think they'd have a profile to narrow it down considerably.

There's still too many inconsistencies for me and I think there's just as much chance Macro are running an operation.

As for software - I'd assume they have a reasonably efficient algorithm and gnarly CPU with a tonne of RAM. I'm a complete novice on DNA but I'd assume very quickly they be able to say "out of all the people on our DNA database, one group of people can be ruled out, where as another group of people can't be ruled out".

A wiki article states that LCN has been in use since 1999. In the UK use of LCN was apparently suspended for a short time whilst the DPP checked the veracity of the testing. The wiki article (link below) has many resource references if you're interested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_copy_number

Whittaker was used in the prosecution of Bradley Murdoch re the murder of Falconio (trial 2005). I have viewed a recent documentary (can't recall name of such) that suggested Whittaker's techniques were bought into contention by Murdoch's defense counsel. http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...n-falconio-case/2007/12/23/1198344884102.html
 
There could be a thousand reasons why the CSK chose a key ring / broach over a watch, least of all being because he liked patterns. Removing the watch was a mere example I gave, my entire point was a serial killer is not concerned with the price of a trophy, the trophy has a far greater value to him than money.

We don't know for a fact that the perpetrator /s have "taken" the jewellery and key ring and are kept as a souvenir; they may have been disposed of. Ciara Glennon's body was found partially clothed, so the item of clothing, presuming the suit jacket could well be an item of clothing that is missing.
 
Yep, the mustard Jaguar seen behind her flat... That tells us all somewhat. Mind you I have seen f/knuckle doctors up there at his same surgery. Makes me make plans. Big ones...

the mustard jaguar was reported by a witness who had observed it (supposedly) parked in the street; not 'behind' her flat. Could have been anyone's mustard jaguar couldn't it.
 
Im glad someone decided to skip this important piece of info. Who are the police officers talking about?

Lee concedes the individual I have named is known as a character in Perth, that he is a possibility.

Reference: Debi, Marshall, 2007. The Devil's Garden: The Claremont Serial Killings. 2nd ed. Australia: Random House.

I think it more likely Marshall had mentioned Mony Leucus's name. I say this because Blackburn had reported him years prior to 2007 (date of Marshall's book) and I am sure that Marshall would have been in contact with Blackburn.
 
Wow. It seems you have dug up a whole heap of new information. Well done. Any chance you can provide some sources? I'm particularly interested in the location of the Karra rape. I never knew that was public so you really have outdone yourself in acquiring this information.

Thanks in advance.

By 'location' of the Karrakatta rape, it was detailed in the Post article that the rape had occurred deep within the cemetery and that the victim had ran to a nearby private hospital. If you look at the cemetery map I posted the other day showing where the Dorrough family are buried, it is very close to the street that have been named ie Monash (from memory).

I also posted a link to the ABC news article that detailed the Dorrough information I posted earlier.

I had previously posted the 1996 news article re the Spiers' witness on WS.

I had a couple of media articles from 1996 ready to post here re Ferguson / blitz attack , but when the Moderator closed the thread I didn't save them. So now I'll go back and find them again.
 
This is entirely unsubstantiated whether these are even linked but lets 'assume'

1988 Julie Cutler- (Possibly) First Kill, may have been first rape too, possibly knew the victim and had a huge grudge or hatred for them, was not caught and became incredibly confident

1989- Swanbourne Drive in Rape Attempt- Abduction from Cottosloe Hotel Car Park- confident after killing his first victim that he can abduct this victim because of her drunken state, this is opportunistic and he grabs her from a public area whilst lurking around his home suburb. Paranoid he may be caught he stops attempting to rape and kill until he regathers his confidence


(Could have been unreported attempted rapes during this period that we do not know about, or the fear of failing in 1989 made him too paranoid to attempt anything untill 1994.)

1994, October this reference should be below the October 1994 reference as it occurred after new years day 1994 !: A woman (31) entered a taxi near Club Bayview. A man hiding in the back of the taxi grabbed her. She jumped out and broke her leg. Possibly related- May have had a friend that was in sick health that wanted a piece of the action and came along for the ride, this was a botched attempt and they may have had to lay low for a small period. This could also be totally unrelated.

1994, New Year's Day this date reference should come prior to the October 1994 rape. : A man dragged a woman from her car after she left Club Bayview. He attempted to sexually assault her but she fought him off. - Friend is too scared to attempt another rape or is too sick to come along again, The CSK thinks its easier to do this alone and reattempts to find a victim and fails

1995, February: A girl (17) left Club Bayview - she was tied with electrical cord and left for dead in Karrakatta Cemetery. She had been abducted walking home from the club. CSK gets a victim and rapes her and leaves in her in such a state reports suggest she was 'left for dead'

1996 (Jan 27): Sarah Ellen Spiers (18) - never found - first to go missing. She left Club Bayview - last seen in telephone booth, Stirling Highway, Claremont. Police believe a golden sunflower key ring may help find Sarah. CSK makes sure he not only kills this victim, but hides her so the evidence is never found (Especially if he raped her and left his DNA). The CSK also realises that spending two hours digging a shallow grave is a good way to be caught or seen and decides next time to dump and run.

1996 (May 3) this date is incorrect. correct date is 3 march 1996: Woman (21) indecently assaulted in laneway behind Club Bayview. 2am assailant ripped her skirt off and her head was bashed against a wall six times before she fled. CSK fails to abduct and uses a brutal blitz attack to try and render the victim unconcious but she fights back and survives leaving another witness behind. The CSK is not worried as he came from behind and was not seen, she does not have a description and he knows this, she was also too disorientated and ran away from him and never turned back to see if he was following so there is no chance of being identified.

1996 (Jun 8) Jane Rimmer was abducted on 9 june not 8th: Jane Louise Rimmer (23) found murdered in bushland at Wellard, 35km south of Perth, last seen Continental Hotel. CSK kills and rapes her leaving the victim naked in bush land driving almost an hour south and deviating slightly to a rural location visited very infrequently at the time

1997 (Mar 14): Ciara Eilish Glennon (27) disappeared from Stirling Highway, Claremont. Had been at the Continental Hotel that night. Body found at Eglinton, 45km north of Perth, on April 3. Missing from the body: a silver Claddagh brooch. No chance of raping victim as she fights back hard and may possible be at that time of the month, gets off on the kill and dumps her still fully clothed in another rural location in a completely opposite direction.

(HUGE AMOUNT OF HEAT SO LAYS LOW- MAY HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A POI/SUSPECT, OR BE UNDER COVERT SURVEILLANCE- GIVES UP KILLING, HAS DISCIPLINE TO GET BY BUT DEPRESSED OR STARTS A NEW LIFE WITH A FAMILY DURING THIS PERIOD)

2000 (Nov 8): Sarah McMahon (20) disappeared. Left her Stirling Highway workplace 5pm Friday, disappeared, her car found abandoned at Swan Districts Hosp - Might be connected, might not. If connected resumed after a large period of laying low due to the heat attracted on the POI during this case for one of the other killings

^^^ BBM in red above for corrections
 
ok excuse the noob question, but what exactly does BBM stand for? I've seen it posted in a few threads.
 
BBM, why not? Like you said they are just theories, why does one carry weight and the other not.
Who decided it couldnt possibly refer to that?

This is what i dont understand, there WAS an attack on a woman from Claremont by a person hiding in the back of a taxi.
If that is not willingly getting in and then being attacked and that doesnt constitute a blitz, i dont know what does.

I just dont get it, there is an almost identicle attack which occurs in a taxi by two men, in the same area.
This screams CSK like no other incident.

The reference to the woman being 'attacked' in the taxi is a fair bit of kilter. Newspaper articles of the day described how when (at the time) she was getting into the front seat of the taxi she noticed a man crouching in the back seat and that he had grabbed hold of her wrist and attempted to pull her into the taxi. There was no reference in the article to the taxi driver being involved. The girl suffered a broken ankle not a broken leg as well; not caused by (crouching) man but by her own actions of jumping out of a moving vehicle. I've never seen any reference to the girl knowing or identifying the crouching man.

To me this could well be the guy that went in the taxi with Sarah Spiers 25 / 26th January, being the night before she disappeared.

It was quite common back in the 1990s for people to share taxis with unknown people - as was reported by Ross with regard to Sarah Spiers having shared a taxi from a girl that was dropped off in Dalkeith and then travelling to South Perth with Sarah Spiers and the unknown man.
 
Does anybody else remember reading an article that said the Karrakatta rape victim ran to a house rather than Hollywood Hospital? I swear I remember reading something about her running to a house and the couple who lived there letting her inside.
 
G'day everyone.
Over here in Victoria, an abduction and murder of a young girl back in 1984 which has been unsoved until today which they have arrested a bloke regarding the incident.
Anyone that wants a read, here's the link
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/a...sixyearold-kylie-maybury-20160609-gpf7b3.html
Only reason I felt that I should share it is because even after 32 years, VicPol caught the alleged perp which renews confidence that one day, the CSK will be found and brought to justice if they are alive. Just shows. Never give up.
I really hope so. Especially for the families and friends affected by the CSK.
 
Does anybody else remember reading an article that said the Karrakatta rape victim ran to a house rather than Hollywood Hospital? I swear I remember reading something about her running to a house and the couple who lived there letting her inside.

no, i think you are thinking of the teenager that was abducted by the Birnies? her escape led to their arrest.
 
no, i think you are thinking of the teenager that was abducted by the Birnies? her escape led to their arrest.
Correct billywhizz. That was the one who escaped through the window while Catherine Birnie was occupied.
 
Does anybody else remember reading an article that said the Karrakatta rape victim ran to a house rather than Hollywood Hospital? I swear I remember reading something about her running to a house and the couple who lived there letting her inside.

From memory that was the girl who was abducted, taken to a golf course and raped before she escaped to a nearby house.

There was something about her being so hysterical it took her a few hrs before she could get the words out to explain what happened to the couple who took her in.

Havent heard much about this being true so not sure if it is, definitely not any newspaper articles about this other than being in Debbie Marshals book
 
no, i think you are thinking of the teenager that was abducted by the Birnies? her escape led to their arrest.

Nope, he is refering to the rape at the golf course around the time of the CSK. DM's book makes reference to this rape.
 
Nope, he is refering to the rape at the golf course around the time of the CSK. DM's book makes reference to this rape.

thanks for the definite answer on what hideoustroll was referring to
 
papertrail - seeing as you are compiling a bullet point list on LW as a suspect is there any chance you could do one on the MAP afterwards? would be interested to hear your theories.
 
I think it more likely Marshall had mentioned Mony Leucus's name. I say this because Blackburn had reported him years prior to 2007 (date of Marshall's book) and I am sure that Marshall would have been in contact with Blackburn.

I just dont think ML fits the profile (not that it means anything)

He was angry and aggressive against woman, openly violent in front of witnesses (eg. His friend when he bashed Estelle Blackburn)

The CSK comes across as someone who has been rejected by pretty girls and ignored. They might have been mean to him and rejected his advances, not only in his teenage and early adult years, but also in his middle age years

ML was a romantic ballroom dancer who had no issues getting girlfriends.. I doubt he would have a need to not only be violent with his partner, but also rape and kill random girls on the street. He was also spontaneous with his violence, rather than controlled and calm. He was into drugs and alcohol, wild and loose, rather than being disciplined like the CSK

There are many other things that simply contradict the profile of the CSK..
 
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