Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #6

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Mo Joe said:
Also, how did he abduct him without anyone noticing? He may have pulled him into a vehicle? Similar to KK victim?
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Don't know but from what I can tell he never made it to the shops so would have probably been in a residential area. He could have been blitzed and no one noticed. Or he could have been lured. Typically pedos are experts in luring kids into cars.

The bigger question for me is why no other victims that we know about? 11 yea old boys gets abducted and murdered in Rockingham but no one else. Is it a once off? Does the killer move around? Is it an "every few years" deal.
 
Two suspects under scrutiny only held back by DNA complications obviously unrelated to Claremont,

One person of interest was written off early but came under renewed scrutiny when new information came to light. News.com.au does not know the nature of that information.

Police were ready to charge one local man after they found blood traces in his car and evidence that blood had been washed off a wall in a room at his home where he kept model aeroplanes. But the cleaning agent used prevented DNA from being extracted. Blood traces were also found at the suspect's parents' house.

The Director of Public Prosecutions wasn't satisfied there was enough proof to proceed with charges.

Detectives re-examined their suspect "with fine tooth comb multiple times" but couldn't find that extra skerrick of evidence they needed to get the DPP across the line.

The case was complicated by the fact that there'd been a murder at the house previously, even though it had occurred on the grass outside.

Police also made mistakes. DNA at that time was still a reasonably new investigative tool and samples were contaminated.
http://www.news.com.au/national/no-...r-of-gerard-ross/story-fncynjr2-1226730066395
 
Daniel Lee Siebert, Anatoly Utkin,Very Idham Henyansyah, Seisaku Nakamura, Dennis Rader, Arthur Shawcross, Belle Gunness, Henri Desire Landry, Genzo Kurita, Andrei Chikatilo, Ahmad Suradji, Yoo Young-chul, Edward Edwards, Joseph E Duncan 111, Danny Rolling, Melvin Rees, Michael Wayne McGray, Michael Hughes, Andras Pandy, Peter Woodcock, Daniel Audiel Lopez Martinez, Peter Lundin, Anthony Kirkland, Anthony Allen Shore.

The names of some serial killers who murdered people of different ages and sexes.
 
Mo Joe said:
Daniel Lee Siebert, Anatoly Utkin,Very Idham Henyansyah, Seisaku Nakamura, Dennis Rader, Arthur Shawcross, Belle Gunness, Henri Desire Landry, Genzo Kurita, Andrei Chikatilo, Ahmad Suradji, Yoo Young-chul, Edward Edwards, Joseph E Duncan 111, Danny Rolling, Melvin Rees, Michael Wayne McGray, Michael Hughes, Andras Pandy, Peter Woodcock, Daniel Audiel Lopez Martinez, Peter Lundin, Anthony Kirkland, Anthony Allen Shore.

The names of some serial killers who murdered people of different ages and sexes.
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I had a look at the first 8 of them and they don't really relate. Some have killed whole families including the kids, some mostly kill adult females but on occasion have killed the victim's child (as well) and some kill adult females exclusively but over a large age range.

What we're talking here is a person who exclusively focuses on adult women for a period and then swaps to a pre-pubescent boy.

The only person in that list who remotely fits the bill that I can see is Chikitillo.

I'd suggest it's very rare for serial killers to swap between adult women to pre-pubescent boys. All the pedos I've come across, while hetero, aren't running around chasing skirt. They're grooming young boys. There's a reason Australia's most well known pedos have multiple convictions for child sex offences and none for offence against adult women.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying data tells us it's very rare.
 
Chemicals used in the cleaning process in Rockingham house were used to damage the DNA. That meant police couldn't use the DNA. AFAIK this was the case with the Claremont girls. That measures had been taken to prevent DNA detection, hence the lack of DNA on the two discovered bodies. But obviously the DNA from the Karrakatta rape victim would be clear as day, and they have a forensic connection.
There had been a prior murder in the backyard. Maybe another murderer. Most of us wouldnt have known about DNA too much in the day. These guys knew the chemical that damages DNA. So what is the chemical that they used to destroy the DNA? A 11 year old boy is quite large, but still a risk for one. You would think it would be two people? A driver and an abductor. How tall was Gerard?

So, police would have a DNA match with the Rockingham POI if that were the case, from the Karrakatta case....
 
Why haven't the Police ruled out a connection between GR and the Claremont victims?
 
Why havent policed ruled out Gerard with many other cases? No one has asked them to.
Maybe its irrelevant but write a letter to Bret Christian and ask him to ask police if they can rule out a link between the crimes?
 
Ironically, Karrakatta cemetery is not far from two military training facilities.
If someone was going to abduct girls on their own, they would need some pretty good training.
How do you get a full grown adult in a vehicle on your own in middle Claremont, 200 metres from Club Bay View then drive off?
Military trained might do it. Although Im wondering if Morey was actually SAS. I have a feeling he was impersonating his capacity to scare people. Plenty do it.
You try get a 25 year old girl in a taxi on your own via abduction. I feel at least Sarah entered a taxi under the premise she was entering a taxi then someone has lept out behind the station wagon (luggage bay) back seat and strangled her.
Im going to speculate there was not a single vehicle used in the abductions.
Potentially swapped vehicles in each case.
Police need to reinterview the Karrakatta to see what else.
Karrakatta victim had a bag put overhead?
Sounds military.
Wonder if DM borrowed a van from the truck yard for Karrakatta?
He obviously had all the tools.
 
Bartholemeus said:
I had a look at the first 8 of them and they don't really relate. Some have killed whole families including the kids, some mostly kill adult females but on occasion have killed the victim's child (as well) and some kill adult females exclusively but over a large age range.

What we're talking here is a person who exclusively focuses on adult women for a period and then swaps to a pre



Did you forget about Brett Cowen? He certainly chased skirt having married and had a child with her, yet he was still preoccupied with young boys.
Then there are these...

Scott Erskine
Convicted of raping and murdering a woman in 1989 and the torture-murders of two boys in 1993. May be linked to other murders.

Leonard Fraser
Serial rapist and pedophile who murdered four women in Rockhampton. Sentenced to five consecutive life sentences plus 25 years without the possibility of parole; died in prison of a heart attack in 2007.

Arthur Shawcross
After being arrested in 1972 for the rape and murder of two children, he was able to plead down to a sentence for manslaughter. After 14½ years of incarceration, he began targeting prostitutes. Strangled and battered his victims. Known as the "Genesee River Killer", "Genesee River Strangler", "Rochester Strangler", and "Monster of the Rivers".

Daniel Seibert
Convicted of 1979 manslaughter; killed ten people across America in three months in mid-1980s including two children and a Southside Slayer victim.

David Meirhoffer
Killed three children and an ex-girlfriend between 1967 and 1974; first serial killer apprehended by offender profiling.

Peter Kudzinowski
Convicted and executed for the murder of an adult in Scranton, Pennsylvania and two children in New Jersey. Also suspect in the death of two other children in New York City, although Albert Fish later confessed to have murdered one of them himself.

Manuel Villegas
Wandering criminal known as "El Arropiero" (The Arrope Trader) and "El Estrangulador del Puerto" (The Strangler of Puerto), confessed to the impulsive murders of 48 people of different gender, age, and sexual orientation in three countries (including his girlfriend, which he strangled during sex), though police only investigated him for 22 murders in Spain and was considered proven author of 7. Some of his victims were killed with hand to hand combat techniques that he had learned in the Spanish Foreign Legion. Diagnosed with XYY syndrome and interned in a mental institution until his death in 1998.

And don't forget Ted Bundy. His last known victim was a 12 year old girl. Quite a departure from his normal MO

Admittedly, most serial killing targets vulnerable women..but there are still many killers who will target children also. It does happen!

Personally, I don't think there is enough evidence to say the CSK is responsible for GR..but there isn't enough evidence to rule him out either. Stalemate!
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Bartholemeus said:
Unsure why you are posting this and quoting me? I'm quite aware most pedos are hetero.

Let me ask you this question: Do you think a pedo who would abduct and kill a young boy would also be killing young women? That would be very unlikely IMO.
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Honestly..I don't know! It sickens me to think what could be going through these vile minds!
How far would a SK go to gain power and control? How long is a piece of string?
I guess we're only going to get that insight if the offender is caught.
 
If CSK is someone unknown to police then I've always suspected it being a military person for a few reasons.

SS & CG - get offered lifts from a trustworthy looking military person

JR - few people said in the past on here that JR was looking to score if that's the case then most girls would drop to their knees for a military person

Obvious one being the barracks close to the attack locations

The dump locations being inline to that accuracy shows that it was a fluke or someone can use maps and coordinates well

Are there any military areas near by to the dump sites?

Access to or able to afford a new car.

At the time of the murders was there any military operations going on around the world that Australia was involved in?
Could of been a lull in action for the military person and needed to do some killing for satisfaction and girls were an easy target.
 
Mo Joe said:
Why haven't the Police ruled out a connection between GR and the Claremont victims?
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I believe they have. Police have said numerous times that they don't believe any other murders are linked (including SM). Whether that's accurate or not is another story.
 
Its been discussed before, as has the Gerard case in this thread. If it is terrorism, someone is in jail without you knowing it.

1996 was the 80th anniversary of Easter rising. CG was 44.5km from GPO, JR is 35.5km from GPO = 80km
Jane Rimmer was left in Lily which macro have a pin to represent it. A Commodore might have been a military vehicle. Karrakatta sounds like a classic trained military abduction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing
4_2_Badge_Easter_Lily-600.jpg


JBA512 said:
If CSK is someone unknown to police then I've always suspected it being a military person for a few reasons.
SS & CG - get offered lifts from a trustworthy looking military person
JR - few people said in the past on here that JR was looking to score if that's the case then most girls would drop to their knees for a military person
Obvious one being the barracks close to the attack locations. The dump locations being inline to that accuracy shows that it was a fluke or someone can use maps and coordinates well
Are there any military areas near by to the dump sites? Access to or able to afford a new car. At the time of the murders was there any military operations going on around the world that Australia was involved in? Could of been a lull in action for the military person and needed to do some killing for satisfaction and girls were an easy target.
Click to expand...
 
Do all the pick up points of the girls follow a "bog lap" of the area?

Would be interesting to know if the police managed to locate any cars that were seen more than once in the footage on the night of CG pickup.
They would be high on my list even more so if it was a white vs commodore
 
crabstick said:
Chemicals used in the cleaning process in Rockingham house were used to damage the DNA.
Click to expand...
It's probably more likely the chemicals were used to wash the blood and remove any forensic evidence. I think it's a stretch to say this person had specific knowledge how to destroy DNA.


That meant police couldn't use the DNA. AFAIK this was the case with the Claremont girls. That measures had been taken to prevent DNA detection, hence the lack of DNA on the two discovered bodies.
Click to expand...
There is no evidence whatsoever that this happened. Someone made it up.

This is the problem with people making things up - over time people turn them into "facts".
 
JBA512 said:
If CSK is someone unknown to police then I've always suspected it being a military person for a few reasons.

SS & CG - get offered lifts from a trustworthy looking military person

JR - few people said in the past on here that JR was looking to score if that's the case then most girls would drop to their knees for a military person

Obvious one being the barracks close to the attack locations

The dump locations being inline to that accuracy shows that it was a fluke or someone can use maps and coordinates well

Are there any military areas near by to the dump sites?

Access to or able to afford a new car.

At the time of the murders was there any military operations going on around the world that Australia was involved in?
Could of been a lull in action for the military person and needed to do some killing for satisfaction and girls were an easy target.
Click to expand...

- This area is different to your neck of the woods. Military people would typically be looked down upon. While I think JR was either targeting a specific guy or maybe seeing who was available, I don't think CG or SS were in pick up mode.
- I don't believe there are any military sites near the dump sites
- Gulf war maybe?
 
So, someone who killed right wing girls from a catholic school? A military ghost hiding in Australia who considers himself IRA? PW did say ti was a political crime. An IRA spy operating in Australia under the radar, off the grid of police? Living off drug money?

4_2_Badge_Easter_Lily-600.jpg

claremont_brooch.jpg
 
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