Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996-1997, Perth, Western Australia - #8 ARREST*

[JoeDetective]

He's talking about a drug and alcohol test. Similar to an RBT.

They don't do random DNA tests, it is not legal, otherwise they would simply DNA test everyone systemically unless there is a specific reason. If he is charged with a serious offence added to the database,

 

[Biggus]

Creepy, maybe making weird comments, maybe always focusing attention on young 20 something females. Was just wondering if there were any signs present that gave people hints that there was something he was hiding.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Plenty of people act like that. Peter Weygers for example. A friend of mine was renting a house he owned in Cottesloe in 85/86, and he was apparently just like that, indubitably why he came to be a person of interest. Plenty of people come across as creepy when they're trying to get laid. Looking for obvious boogy man types is counterproductive. Like someone else said, it's always, "He kept to himself but seemed normal and friendly", just the way we'd act if we had a big secret to conceal.

 

[Shredder86]

Sorry this doesn't make sense, the DNA would have matched CG and KK rape, they don't need the kimono.

Exactly. !!!

 

[JoeDetective]

Sorry this doesn't make sense, the DNA would have matched CG and KK rape, they don't need the kimono

The implication is that once they got the hit off the kimono, they went looking for who it could belong to because it matched CG and KK

If they got his DNA randomly the kimono is irrelevant, it is only relevant if they get a match off the kimono then go looking for the kimono thief.

It is possible a relative of BE's was tested as part of the Huntingdale kimono case and then bang they get a partial hit. That explains familial DNA in the article plus the kimono as the key.

How old was BE's brother?

 

[Mo Joe]

They don't do random DNA tests, it is not legal, otherwise they would simply DNA test everyone systemically unless there is a specific reason. If he is charged with a serious offence added to the database,

IIRC in the case of 6 year old Kylie Maybury (Victoria) when a suspect refused his DNA, they found a way to acquire to it, without permission? Turned out it wasn't him .

 

[Mo Joe]

Sorry this doesn't make sense, the DNA would have matched CG and KK rape, they don't need the kimono

The implication is that once they got the hit off the kimono they went looking for who it could belong to because it matched CG and KK

If they got his DNA randomly the kimono is irrlelevent, it is only relevant if they get a match off the kimono then go looking for the kimono thief.

Perhaps the victim connected to the finding of the kimono was the only person to see his face?

 

[JoeDetective]

I'm wondering if the reason BE's wife left and his step-daughter stayed and is defending him fiercely, is he started a relationship with her?

That is a serious leap <modsnip>.

It is more likely he has just been a great father to her and she loves him. It is very common in separations that a child will choose a side.

 

[Mo Joe]

Does anyone know what happens to the saliva from random road side drug tests? Is it destroyed?

 

[JoeDetective]

IIRC in the case of 6 year old Kylie Maybury (Victoria) when a suspect refused his DNA, they found a way to acquire to it, without permission? Turned out it wasn't him .

Oh absolutely they can and will find a way to get it covertly, then if it matches they will get a court order which will allow them to take the DNA sample regardless to confirm its correct.

The most likely scenario is that BE or a relative was a POI in the 88 case. Obviously cops should/would have tested every person mentioned in the 88 case file.

 

[CSK?]

The kimono link was a DNA match to 2 other major crimes, they knew at this stage solving the Huntingdale attack was their best bet to catching the CSK, I theorize that BE was a suspect in the attack but with not enough to convict. Police would have re-examined the main suspects possibly obtaining DNA evidence from their relatives either in secret, by asking or because of a non related arrest which then confirmed BE.

Another scenario is that BE had been questioned in relation to two or more of the attacks and become a focus after police decided his name appearing over again as a POI was not a coincidence, and then obtained familial DNA to confirm and as a method to not spook BE.

Hope that helps some people understand the link.

Just a note: these are not exactly how he caught them but examples as to how they may have.

 

[gajafar]

It is possible a relative of BE's was tested as part of the Huntingdale kimono case and then bang they get a partial hit. That explains familial DNA in the article plus the kimono as the key.

How old was BE's brother?

Don't know for sure but according to linkedin claimed to have graduated gosnells 87 (BE graduated year 12 in 85).

 

[JoeDetective]

The kimono link was a DNA match to 2 other major crimes, they knew at this stage solving the Huntingdale attack was their best bet to catching the CSK, I theorize that BE was a suspect in the attack but with not enough to convict. Police would have re-examined the main suspects possibly obtaining DNA evidence from their relatives either in secret, by asking or because of a non related arrest which then confirmed BE.

Another scenario is that BE had been questioned in relation to two or more of the attacks and become a focus after police decided his name appearing over again as a POI was not a coincidence, and then obtained familial DNA to confirm and as a method to not spook BE.

Hope that helps some people understand the link.

The two possible theories that fit with the familial info I think are
1. BE was a serious primary suspect in the 88 attack, police did not want to spook him as they knew CSK is not going to give DNA so did a familial DNA check on a relative probably(brother, mother father) told them it was for an unrelated case, bang they get a hit that indicates that person is related in x way to the CSK DNA profile. > Cops did not legally have BE's DNA results until 12 hours after the arrest.
2. BE relative was a POI in the kimono case, maybe the brother was friends with the victim, they get a familial hit in the DNA database and follow, but I suspect this is less likely.

Thing is I am unsure that familial hits are a regular check these days my understanding was you had to specifically select to do familial checks, it wasn't done as standard as so many people are distantly related it takes a significant amount more time and processing power.

Anyway would like to hear from someone who is aware of the current process in Australia, I know when it first came in the USA had some legal issues with it.

 

[JoeDetective]

Don't know for sure but according to linkedin claimed to have graduated gosnells 87 (BE graduated year 12 in 85).

Yes as I suspected very similar in ages, the 88 women may have been a friend of BEs brother.

 

[gajafar]

Some info on familial DNA

[h=1]Familial DNA Searches[/h] 6 3977 Download article as a PDF



What Is a Familial DNA Search?
A familial DNA search is a search by law enforcement in DNA databases for genetic information indicating a relative of a person they seek to identify. When a search for an exact match to a DNA sample comes up fruitless, a familial DNA search may bring back a partial match, indicating a sibling, child, parent or other blood relative. For example, DNA from a crime scene might not match any DNA in state or federal databases, but if the person's son had been recently incarcerated and thus his information entered into a state DNA database, a familial DNA search could lead police to the son, and ultimately to their suspect.

[...]

<modsnip>

 

[JoeDetective]

"Who Uses Familial DNA Searches?
Currently, it is difficult to establish exactly which law enforcement agencies use familial DNA searches. Many states have not formally adopted procedures to allow or ban familial searches.
Only a limited number of states explicitly allow law enforcement officials to use familial DNA searches. Of these states, even fewer have issued public proclamations regarding familial searches. The policies in place in many states remain either unwritten or written in internal laboratory manuals."

This was my understanding, it is not a common technique, indeed I have never heard of it being used in cases in WA before, I believe you need to specifically check for it which is why I believe it is more likely they checked a relative so as not to spook BE as he was a major suspect in the 88 attack.

 

[nattymcgherkin]

I think he was. Media claim Macro got a match and then looked into the file and somehow came up with BE.

quite possibly not. Unlikely actually.

The case was sitting on a shelf for 28 years. It wasn't even a rape, just attempted rape ( Claremont subway anyone?). The would have DNA tested all convicted felons but probably not mere suspects.

That does seem unlikely but the link may have been made through ancestry.com or Macro might have just asked for DNA or they went and obtained his DNA discreetly.


Agreed



I wonder where he killed them and how he cleaned the vehicles.

If BE was a suspect in an attempted rape and had been on the radar than WAPOL screwed up IMO. They could have at least cross referenced all known suspects with what type of cars they were driving. I mean, he fit the age and the assault was in the same state, just a few suburbs away. Everyone knows that rapists / killers escalate so they should have been looking at pettier sex crimes from earlier years. I find it hard to believe he was right under their noses for 20 years and they didn't bother to check all previous sex assault suspects. They had the resources. Also, if BE had been questioned back in 1988, surely he wouldn't have been as brazen as he was? He was a Telstra worker and kept his vehicles in plain sight. The link to the CSK is obvious. He must have been fairly confident that they wouldn't be looking at him.

 

[gajafar]

"Who Uses Familial DNA Searches?
Currently, it is difficult to establish exactly which law enforcement agencies use familial DNA searches. Many states have not formally adopted procedures to allow or ban familial searches.
Only a limited number of states explicitly allow law enforcement officials to use familial DNA searches. Of these states, even fewer have issued public proclamations regarding familial searches. The policies in place in many states remain either unwritten or written in internal laboratory manuals."

This was my understanding, it is not a common technique, indeed I have never heard of it being used in cases in WA before, I believe you need to specifically check for it which is why I believe it is more likely they checked a relative so as not to spook BE as he was a major suspect in the 88 attack.

[h=3]DNA databases[/h]The Australian National Criminal Investigation DNA Database (NCIDD), managed by CrimTrac, has been in operation since 2001. The NCIDD continues to expand and now holds more than 830,000 DNA profiles and conducts 68,000 matches from crime scenes to individuals, and more than 72,000 matches from crime scene to crime scene each year. The NCIDD is used by police in all jurisdictions to upload profiles and conduct searches (CrimTrac 2014).
In 2015, the NCIDD will be upgraded to include additional capabilities. This database will be among the most advanced in the world, incorporating familial searching and kinship matching capabilities, as well as mtDNA and Y-STR profiling (CrimTrac 2014).
Most developed countries have DNA databases, with the largest in the United States and the United Kingdom. As of September 2014, the US National DNA Index System (NDIS) contained 11,164,117 convicted offender and detainee profiles, 2,026,761 arrestee profiles and 583,444 forensic profiles. The Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) had 261,703 hits between individuals and crime scenes associated with 250,230 investigations (FBI 2014).
As of 30 June 2014, the United Kingdom’s National DNA Database (NDNAD) contained 4,936,021 individual profiles, 5,753,148 suspect samples and 463,562 crime scene samples. There were 477,966 crime scene matches for one or more subjects for all offences, 3,153 crime scene matches to one or more subjects for murder or manslaughter and 6,972 crime scene matches to one or more subjects involving rape cases (Home Office 2014).
In November 2014, the Commonwealth Minister for Justice, the Hon Michael Keenan, announced that Australia had entered into a pilot program with the United Kingdom, the United States and Canada enabling international sharing of DNA profiles (Keenan 2014).
The large number of DNA profiles collected and stored by law enforcement agencies and the extent to which police regularly use this information to investigate serious crimes demonstrate the value of DNA evidence as an investigative tool. One of the gaps in research undertaken to date on the use of DNA is developing an evidence base to support the rapid expansion of DNA databases and application of new techniques. http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/501-520/tandi506.html

 

[Naccipear]

What body of water? Do you mean a lake or creek? I was under the impression she was left near a gutter / storm water drain on the side of a road? There was no mention of drowning? Please provide a link regarding the "body of water".

She was found in a stormwater drain with part of her body submerged. Autopsy and toxicology would have confirmed AOD in her system and drowning if that was the case but it isn't as her death is still listed as suspicious without cause. I went to school with her. She was a known heroin addict but it never came out that she had overdosed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Naccipear]

Oh absolutely they can and will find a way to get it covertly, then if it matches they will get a court order which will allow them to take the DNA sample regardless to confirm its correct.

The most likely scenario is that BE or a relative was a POI in the 88 case. Obviously cops should/would have tested every person mentioned in the 88 case file.

That's exactly how I think they nailed him. He was already a POI in Huntingdale. Once they zeroed in that it was him, they were able to link them all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CSK?]

If BE was a suspect in an attempted rape and had been on the radar than WAPOL screwed up IMO. They could have at least cross referenced all known suspects with what type of cars they were driving. I mean, he fit the age and the assault was in the same state, just a few suburbs away. Everyone knows that rapists / killers escalate so they should have been looking at pettier sex crimes from earlier years. I find it hard to believe he was right under their noses for 20 years and they didn't bother to check all previous sex assault suspects. They had the resources. Also, if BE had been questioned back in 1988, surely he wouldn't have been as brazen as he was? He was a Telstra worker and kept his vehicles in plain sight. The link to the CSK is obvious. He must have been fairly confident that they wouldn't be looking at him.

Paul bernado, peter sutcliff and gary ridgeway were all questioned early on in the hunt for serial killers and kept up with brazen attacks, you have to remember these guys think they are too good to be caught.