Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

[lampformypath]

some posters were dead set certain the CSK left his victims in a straight line with the conti being the central point
i wondered why. Maybe it was to locate the victims on his return

Now there's a theory, the finding of them again later on, to revisit the scene, maybe on supposed job nearby? Other SKs have done this, to relive the thrill of it, and sometimes, too horrible to imagine but true, to commit necrophilia. (Shudder) If the CSK has driven around 40 klms one way south, then 40 klms the other way north, no reason why direct line 40 klms east isn't a possibility and where our SS might be. I have always favoured east for Sarah. WAPOL has said that the D sites were "preplanned" so maybe it was where the alleged CSK was working at that time? Had pre-scoped out a destination east as his first option, then south, then north? This wouldn't arouse any suspicion for him to be out doing work in the area, cruising around getting out of his car and checking out sites, pretending to be filling out paperwork etc. who'd take any notice of a techie doing this, even other workmates if he was challenged, "Just down/up/out here doing some checking for a development being planned in the future. All hush hush, you know how it is?" If they really pressed him too much it would be, "oh you got me mate, I stopped to have a leak!"

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Now there's a theory, the finding of them again later on, to revisit the scene, maybe on supposed job nearby? Other SKs have done this, to relive the thrill of it, and sometimes, too horrible to imagine but true, to commit necrophilia. (Shudder) If the CSK has driven around 40 klms one way south, then 40 klms the other way north, no reason why direct line 40 klms east isn't a possibility and where our SS might be. I have always favoured east for Sarah. WAPOL has said that the D sites were "preplanned" so maybe it was where the alleged CSK was working at that time? Had pre-scoped out a destination east as his first option, then south, then north? This wouldn't arouse any suspicion for him to be out doing work in the area, cruising around getting out of his car and checking out sites, pretending to be filling out paperwork etc. who'd take any notice of a techie doing this, even other workmates if he was challenged, "Just down/up/out here doing some checking for a development being planned in the future. All hush hush, you know how it is?" If they really pressed him too much it would be, "oh you got me mate, I stopped to have a leak!"

IMO there is something in the straight line theory -------there's so many other options to dispose of a body in Perth and surrounds. Why not utilise the usual spots - eg Gnangara Pines plantation or in the bush in Karagullen or Darling Scarp etc?????


Edit : so maybe Sarah lies in one of the usual spots, ie east of CBV/GPO.

 

[lampformypath]

IMO there is something in the straight line theory -------there's so many other options to dispose of a body in Perth and surrounds. Why not utilise the usual spots - eg Gnangara Pines plantation or in the bush in Karagullen or Darling Scarp etc?????

Further to the "preplanned" sites bit, here's one article that contained that quote from WAPOL. It's also the article about the brickie that saw a taxi with no lights on and nearly hit it as it crept out from Pipidinny Road.

"Operation Macro detectives told media they believed the controlled killer had used “planned disposal sites”. It was also reported that police believed the bodies of Ciara and Jane were dumped soon after they were abducted from the Claremont nightclub strip."

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...h/news-story/b80af943b3f4b839a9956cdffd1aa3ab

Wonder if he's been re-interviewed now about what he saw, you can't dismiss anything, all things about these cases need to re-examined in the cold light of day. Who knows that the CSK had an accomplice or used a bogus taxi too for the disposal process? Lot easier to explain if a taxi is out at all hours, driving about. Yes, the brickie thought it was weird, but he didn't report it, not till well afterwards, it bothered him, but not enough to ring and report suspicious behaviour, even with a CSK on the loose, AND the police saying it could well be a taxi driver? People are complacent, don't want to cause trouble, look like an idiot if they're wrong, that's how things go on for so long like this CSK case, because nobody wants to "get involved" (except us WS devotees of course!) Perth is such a small place, we've seen how many "coincidences" have happened with somebody saw this, knows that one, etc. I'm sure there are many people out there now who feel terrible for not coming forward with information that could have helped that they saw and thought, now that's weird, what's that bloke doing driving down there at this hour (perhaps a shift worker etc. saw CSK driving slowly along a deserted spot?) I'd be doing a lot of media call outs saying, "PLEASE come forward, we still need information about Sarah and all the other people who have vanished, been killed around this time. There will be no recriminations that you should have told us earlier, we need your help to put all the pieces together." Yes you'll get nutters and time wasters but in amongst all that dust, if you did deep enough, will be little flecks of pure gold!

 

[Moustachio]

Could you direct me to court cases where it was shown that WAPOL has obtained evidentiary DNA from an alleged offender by covert means?

Hold on, Ace! There are loads of examples in every jurisdiction. No jurisdiction forbids it, and why would they? The procedural rules you are talking about prevent compelling suspects from answering questions, and control compelling of suspects participating in line-ups and giving DNA. But no jurisdiction requires a suspect to consent to the collection of evidence (incl DNA) freely given away - for obvious reasons, when put that way.

I could name a dozen Australian cases in which police have collected DNA covertly.

 

[Spinnaker]

IMO there is something in the straight line theory -------there's so many other options to dispose of a body in Perth and surrounds. Why not utilise the usual spots - eg Gnangara Pines plantation or in the bush in Karagullen or Darling Scarp etc?????

Edit : so maybe Sarah lies in one of the usual spots, ie east of CBV/GPO.

There are some posts from thread 7 which state that the line goes through St Quentin Avenue & Bay View Terrace.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...997-Perth-Western-Australia-7-*ARREST*/page20

Would be good to see exact workings on a map if anyone has these type of skills.

EDIT:
Co-ordinates as mentioned in page 21, thread 7:

Jane Rimmer 392517.00 m E 6428800.00 m S

Ciara Glennon 374300 m E 6505100 m S

 

[The Weaver]

Hold on, Ace! There are loads of examples in every jurisdiction. No jurisdiction forbids it, and why would they? The procedural rules you are talking about prevent compelling suspects from answering questions, and control compelling of suspects participating in line-ups and giving DNA. But no jurisdiction requires a suspect to consent to the collection of evidence (incl DNA) freely given away - for obvious reasons, when put that way.

I could name a dozen Australian cases in which police have collected DNA covertly.

http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/41-criminal-investigations/informal-collection-genetic-samples

 

[JoWa]

Further to the "preplanned" sites bit, here's one article that contained that quote from WAPOL. It's also the article about the brickie that saw a taxi with no lights on and nearly hit it as it crept out from Pipidinny Road.

"Operation Macro detectives told media they believed the controlled killer had used “planned disposal sites”. It was also reported that police believed the bodies of Ciara and Jane were dumped soon after they were abducted from the Claremont nightclub strip."

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...h/news-story/b80af943b3f4b839a9956cdffd1aa3ab

Wonder if he's been re-interviewed now about what he saw, you can't dismiss anything, all things about these cases need to re-examined in the cold light of day. Who knows that the CSK had an accomplice or used a bogus taxi too for the disposal process? Lot easier to explain if a taxi is out at all hours, driving about. Yes, the brickie thought it was weird, but he didn't report it, not till well afterwards, it bothered him, but not enough to ring and report suspicious behaviour, even with a CSK on the loose, AND the police saying it could well be a taxi driver? People are complacent, don't want to cause trouble, look like an idiot if they're wrong, that's how things go on for so long like this CSK case, because nobody wants to "get involved" (except us WS devotees of course!) Perth is such a small place, we've seen how many "coincidences" have happened with somebody saw this, knows that one, etc. I'm sure there are many people out there now who feel terrible for not coming forward with information that could have helped that they saw and thought, now that's weird, what's that bloke doing driving down there at this hour (perhaps a shift worker etc. saw CSK driving slowly along a deserted spot?) I'd be doing a lot of media call outs saying, "PLEASE come forward, we still need information about Sarah and all the other people who have vanished, been killed around this time. There will be no recriminations that you should have told us earlier, we need your help to put all the pieces together." Yes you'll get nutters and time wasters but in amongst all that dust, if you did deep enough, will be little flecks of pure gold!

When putting this guys story about the taxi into context with what we know now, it is possible he made it up. I tried to report it many times over the years but no one got back to me??? When they had suspects with access to a taxi they wanted to pin it on??? Sounds a bit suss.


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[petedavo.au]

Further to the "preplanned" sites bit, here's one article that contained that quote from WAPOL. It's also the article about the brickie that saw a taxi with no lights on and nearly hit it as it crept out from Pipidinny Road.

"Operation Macro detectives told media they believed the controlled killer had used “planned disposal sites”. It was also reported that police believed the bodies of Ciara and Jane were dumped soon after they were abducted from the Claremont nightclub strip."

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...h/news-story/b80af943b3f4b839a9956cdffd1aa3ab

Wonder if he's been re-interviewed now about what he saw, you can't dismiss anything, all things about these cases need to re-examined in the cold light of day. Who knows that the CSK had an accomplice or used a bogus taxi too for the disposal process? Lot easier to explain if a taxi is out at all hours, driving about. Yes, the brickie thought it was weird, but he didn't report it, not till well afterwards, it bothered him, but not enough to ring and report suspicious behaviour, even with a CSK on the loose, AND the police saying it could well be a taxi driver? People are complacent, don't want to cause trouble, look like an idiot if they're wrong, that's how things go on for so long like this CSK case, because nobody wants to "get involved" (except us WS devotees of course!) Perth is such a small place, we've seen how many "coincidences" have happened with somebody saw this, knows that one, etc. I'm sure there are many people out there now who feel terrible for not coming forward with information that could have helped that they saw and thought, now that's weird, what's that bloke doing driving down there at this hour (perhaps a shift worker etc. saw CSK driving slowly along a deserted spot?) I'd be doing a lot of media call outs saying, "PLEASE come forward, we still need information about Sarah and all the other people who have vanished, been killed around this time. There will be no recriminations that you should have told us earlier, we need your help to put all the pieces together." Yes you'll get nutters and time wasters but in amongst all that dust, if you did deep enough, will be little flecks of pure gold!

So easy to miss a clue. I'm reminded of the time when I was a kid that Police came to take a witness statement from my youngest uncle after a request from Interpol, as he was in a house full of backpackers in Thailand run by a bloke named Charles Sobhraj when a couple disappeared. Mostly it's only hindsight that illuminates the truth.

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[CSK?]

People must keep in mind, their is a huge difference in covertly collecting a DNA sample and illegally collecting a DNA sample. walking behind a suspect and plucking hairs from his head without permission as REPTI stated is illegal where as walking behind that same suspect and waiting for him to discard a drink can or ciggie butt is not illegal. Keeping the mouth piece of a breathalyzer or drug swab as Gucci stated for the purpose of taking a DNA sample is also not illegal.

And even so, we would be absolutely naive to think the police have never carried out an illegal act in order to solve a crime, especially WAPOL with the reputation they have. REPTI makes it sound like the police are all absolute law abiding. If a senior police officer can molest children, I'm sure they can bypass the law on a DNA sample when they need too.

 

[petedavo.au]

People must keep in mind, their is a huge difference in covertly collecting a DNA sample and illegally collecting a DNA sample. walking behind a suspect and plucking hairs from his head without permission as REPTI stated is illegal where as walking behind that same suspect and waiting for him to discard a drink can or ciggie butt is not illegal. Keeping the mouth piece of a breathalyzer or drug swab as Gucci stated for the purpose of taking a DNA sample is also not illegal.

And even so, we would be absolutely naive to think the police have never carried out an illegal act in order to solve a crime, especially WAPOL with the reputation they have. REPTI makes it sound like the police are all absolute law abiding. If a senior police officer can molest children, I'm sure they can bypass the law on a DNA sample when they need too.

The S/Sgt who was named in a speech in WA Parliament as the state's forensic expert, by the then Premier, and happened to have school photos in the same school's newsletter's as a person's whose Murder Trial the Supreme Court Judge made scathing remarks about forensic evidence, has only been charged I believe with historical child sexual assault, and hasn't gone to trial yet. So be careful of Subjudice

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[silver tongue]

i think the taxi driver was probably tending to his mull crop
lots of weed grown out there back in the day

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

The S/Sgt who was named in a speech in WA Parliament as the state's forensic expert, by the then Premier, and happened to have school photos in the same school's newsletter's as a person's whose Murder Trial the Supreme Court Judge made scathing remarks about forensic evidence, has only been charged I believe with historical child sexual assault, and hasn't gone to trial yet. So be careful of Subjudice

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Good post

 

[justified]

One thing I do not understand is why BRE has not entered a plea. I mean, "if" you are innocent there should be no hesitation. Instead his legal team are waiting for further documents to be handed to them & they await instruction from their client (the accused). Is he waiting to see just how much Wapol have on him & how he could fight it? Interesting indeed because NOBODY including his legal team has proclaimed his innocence & that their client will vigorously defend all allegations..... Silence is deafening and very telling. In My Opinion.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Anyone know a good (online) program for mapping out these crimes, locations of interest and protracted predictions of Sarah's whereabouts?
Something reasonably detailed with easy point-to-point distance calculations. Something better than saving locations in Google Maps.
Help!

 

[lampformypath]

Anyone know a good (online) program for mapping out these crimes, locations of interest and protracted predictions of Sarah's whereabouts?
Something reasonably detailed with easy point-to-point distance calculations. Something better than saving locations in Google Maps.
Help!

Hi "Spooks", don't know if this will help, says it gives you a free trial (the program itself is expensive just under $700!) but you could try it out and see? Who knows you might just get something out of it before it demands you cough up?
http://www.caliper.com/Maptitude/Crime/crime-mapping-software-australia.htm

 

[janwa]

IMO there is something in the straight line theory -------there's so many other options to dispose of a body in Perth and surrounds. Why not utilise the usual spots - eg Gnangara Pines plantation or in the bush in Karagullen or Darling Scarp etc?????


Edit : so maybe Sarah lies in one of the usual spots, ie east of CBV/GPO.

I think it is important to BRE that the placement of these girls is unique to him and isn't contaminated by the burials of others or assigned any shared notoriety with others.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

So quiet in the WS Land of The CSK!!!
Where are all the CSK sleuthers??
Out sleuthing?
Or out-sleuthing ???

I realise WAPOL and MSM haven't provided us with any new fat to chew.

But can't we just rehash some old bones and make the case rattle again?

 

[Owlie]

4 years and 6 months for raping a little 6 year old girl in the toilets, not nearly enough! OK so he's been in custody over 2 years, but still not long enough sentence to reflect the revolting crime against an innocent! Thanks for sharing that DNA is catching up with all these disgusting "individuals".:sick: Think they'll have to build some more prisons as there will likely be a lot more arrests from all these cold case reviews! Good!

Exactly and he's a repeat offender having served 3 years for child sex offences in 2009; and he's eligible for parol so he probably won't even serve the full 4 1/2 years. What an absolute joke. He should get 20 years for doing that to an innocent little 6 year old child.
To our American friends how many years would this monster get in the USA??


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[janwa]

So quiet in the WS Land of The CSK!!!
Where are all the CSK sleuthers??
Out sleuthing?
Or out-sleuthing ???

I realise WAPOL and MSM haven't provided us with any new fat to chew.

But can't we just rehash some old bones and make the case rattle again?

What do you think the motivation is, if it's OK to speculate.

There are obviously many types of SK, some being.

Psychopathic, antisocial or dissocial personality disorder generally evolves from rejection in childhood or unrequited love.
Psychotic, legally insane usually hears voices and has hallucinations.
Comfort killer fraud, theft and debt to improve lifestyle then befriends target bleeds dry, kills and moves on.
Power seeker, the sensation of having ultimate power over life and death.
Thrill seeker, sniper often has a weaker side kick
Lust killer sexual satisfaction from the death and often sex after death so will not be 'rejected'

I think in this case, whoever it ends up being, had a crush on one of attractive younger brothers girlfriends who rejects him, then tries to have his way with various opportunistic victims including Huntingdale and Karrakatta more rejection leads to Claremont but now fantasizing that they return his feelings can take over. Psychopathic.

 

[mandy.maree]

I think they were assumed "planned disposal sites" as other people have said on here that it is pretty hard to know where you are going at night along those roads unless you have been there before (even then...not exactly easy). He not only went on those roads -he went through bush track and by looks of CG-left not far from where the track was in bush.
There were no lights along the road.

Worked to his advantage because he would be able to see cars coming or going towards him from quite a distance.

This all leads me to believe they think he disposed on the same night as he abducted from everything they have said.

Could also simply be that there is some sort of line as mentioned here many times and they believe it is preplanned from the accuracy of that.

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