Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

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We have all seen the cases where the police get single minded on the wrong track then attempt to fit the evidence to the chosen suspect. I have been through this with a case where an older brother was charged with sexually abusing his younger brothers it was only because we could prove he was out of the state at the relevant time that 18 months later the charges were withdrawn even though they knew where he was 3 days into their inquiries. In the PW case there was also a political undertow coming from high profile business people.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

A quote from one Sherlock Holmes....so true...
 
I must admit I've spent the last few minutes being really confused thinking that JoWa and JanWa were the same person who couldn't make their mind up about PW!

I agree the news story I posted doesn't have an exact date of PW and SR meeting but it definitely alludes to them meeting after the CSK incidents.

BBM

:floorlaugh:
 
Yes I agree PW does sometimes get drawn into supporting what appear to be dubious causes as those who advocate on behalf of others occasionally all do. He also has an unusual manner about him, a social disconnect where he only seems to think about what he is saying, not how what he is saying will be received as do those with Asperger's Syndrome. Most people edit themselves as they speak so we have to trust that their message is what they are thinking.

The sentence BBM reminded me of a psychologist I know, (not very well, just spoke a few times, we are members of the same club). He is very knowledgeable but when you talk to him it just seems like he is analysing what is being said, and yes he has an unusual manner. I think he is a nice enough bloke though others don't seem to like him. Anyway, it takes all sorts to live in this world, me included.
 
Yep, thanks, I realised my mistake, should have written 8 and not 3. I've tried to edit it but couldn't, have sent a message to the mods to edit for me

Crimestoppers says 3 minutes, there has always been some confusion over the exact time.
https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/sarah-ellen-spiers/

"At about 9 minutes past 2, three minutes after Sarah called Swan Taxis, the cab that had accepted the job to collect Sarah pulled up at the intersection of Stirling Highway and Stirling Road. The driver looked up the street to the telephone box and did not see any person, he didn’t see any one in the street at all."
 
BBM

:floorlaugh:

One would post they knew him and he was a good man then suddenly that he supported dubious causes and was perhaps responsible for attacks in a taxi. Then back to defending him, then back to him being bad. Seriously it confused the life out of me for a while there.
 
One would post they knew him and he was a good man then suddenly that he supported dubious causes and was perhaps responsible for attacks in a taxi. Then back to defending him, then back to him being bad. Seriously it confused the life out of me for a while there.

That's really funny!

(And I get it - I got mixed up with JoWa and JanWa for ages too.)
 
Crimestoppers says 3 minutes, there has always been some confusion over the exact time.
https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/sarah-ellen-spiers/

"At about 9 minutes past 2, three minutes after Sarah called Swan Taxis, the cab that had accepted the job to collect Sarah pulled up at the intersection of Stirling Highway and Stirling Road. The driver looked up the street to the telephone box and did not see any person, he didn’t see any one in the street at all."

The three guys in the car who see Sarah, ostensibly waiting for her taxi, see a car approach the intersection but not enter it. Could this car have actually been the taxi she had called? Wouldn't the dome light have been extinguished as it had accepted a job? (Taxi aficionados may confirm.) That way it would have appeared as just another car, and that would be why that driver never came forward - because there was no other car, just the taxi. But then, assuming the taxi driver was not involved, it leaves an even smaller window for someone to attack her and not be observed.

I dunno.


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The three guys in the car who see Sarah, ostensibly waiting for her taxi, see a car approach the intersection but not enter it. Could this car have actually been the taxi she had called? Wouldn't the dome light have been extinguished as it had accepted a job? (Taxi aficionados may confirm.) That way it would have appeared as just another car, and that would be why that driver never came forward - because there was no other car, just the taxi. But then, assuming the taxi driver was not involved, it leaves an even smaller window for someone to attack her and not be observed.

I dunno.


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Good thinking Molly Dooker! When my Dad drove a taxi it was the case that they turned the light off at the top when they weren't available as they'd either picked up a fare, or were knocking off for the night, but that was long ago and far away so we need our Bunnie to tell us how it is in modern day (not when Fred Flintstone was hailing stone taxis!)
 
Crimestoppers says 3 minutes, there has always been some confusion over the exact time.
https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/sarah-ellen-spiers/

"At about 9 minutes past 2, three minutes after Sarah called Swan Taxis, the cab that had accepted the job to collect Sarah pulled up at the intersection of Stirling Highway and Stirling Road. The driver looked up the street to the telephone box and did not see any person, he didn’t see any one in the street at all."

I'm leaning towards 8 minutes. Think about all that needed to happen in the time between the call and the cab arriving. SS hangs up the phone, walks across the road and has time to settle in leaning against the wall as was described by the witnesses. The witnesses then pull up in their car and wait for a change of lights. They go through and see another car approaching SS but decide not to go back. We don't know what happened with the second car except that by the time the cab got there it was nowhere in sight and nor was SS. 3 minutes just seems too tight.

I guess what is important though is that if it was indeed 3 minutes that makes it almost certain that the second car was involved in the disappearance. Timeframe is tight as it is, can't see there being time for someone else to be involved in between that car and the taxi arriving.
 
I'm leaning towards 8 minutes. Think about all that needed to happen in the time between the call and the cab arriving. SS hangs up the phone, walks across the road and has time to settle in leaning against the wall as was described by the witnesses. The witnesses then pull up in their car and wait for a change of lights. They go through and see another car approaching SS but decide not to go back. We don't know what happened with the second car except that by the time the cab got there it was nowhere in sight and nor was SS. 3 minutes just seems too tight.

I agree with you CP345. This taxi thing is really getting to me. You know, I think that SS might have been different perps, like Perpendicular said, the two that tried and failed before with the bloke hiding in the back (my Lord what a frightening experience for the poor woman, but amazingly she escaped with a broken ankle!) What if others didn't and SS was one of them? This "private taxi" idea keeps coming to me. Long before Uber of course, but easy enough to do a little moonlighting on a weekend/public holiday with a converted white car with a taxi light maybe from a wreckers yard? I don't know, maybe a clever person could just rig one up with a white light and lettering? Dark night, white car, looks like taxi, very tired, want to go home, feeling frightened and vulnerable, previous scenario of "you waiting for a taxi love?" SS (or any other poor unsuspecting female) gets in, is IMMEDIATELY attacked and restrained before she can see there is no meter inside the car etc. and off the horrible duo go into the black night. It's so sinister, but I can see how it would be extremely effective as a "lure". The more I read the more amazed I am at how many creeps were/are out there at any one time. We teach kids Stranger Danger over and over at school but maybe we should be constantly reminding young women AND men, that there is safety in numbers and not to walk off on your own and think you'll be safe, anywhere! Always have your antennae up, alert but not alarmed as they say.
 
I agree with you CP345. This taxi thing is really getting to me. You know, I think that SS might have been different perps, like Perpendicular said, the two that tried and failed before with the bloke hiding in the back (my Lord what a frightening experience for the poor woman, but amazingly she escaped with a broken ankle!) What if others didn't and SS was one of them? This "private taxi" idea keeps coming to me. Long before Uber of course, but easy enough to do a little moonlighting on a weekend/public holiday with a converted white car with a taxi light maybe from a wreckers yard? I don't know, maybe a clever person could just rig one up with a white light and lettering? Dark night, white car, looks like taxi, very tired, want to go home, feeling frightened and vulnerable, previous scenario of "you waiting for a taxi love?" SS (or any other poor unsuspecting female) gets in, is IMMEDIATELY attacked and restrained before she can see there is no meter inside the car etc. and off the horrible duo go into the black night. It's so sinister, but I can see how it would be extremely effective as a "lure". The more I read the more amazed I am at how many creeps were/are out there at any one time. We teach kids Stranger Danger over and over at school but maybe we should be constantly reminding young women AND men, that there is safety in numbers and not to walk off on your own and think you'll be safe, anywhere! Always have your antennae up, alert but not alarmed as they say.

I still feel it's more likely that SS was taken by the same person responsible for JR and CG but what you're describing is definitely a possibility lamp. Not out of the question at all without further evidence.
 
I'm leaning towards 8 minutes. Think about all that needed to happen in the time between the call and the cab arriving. SS hangs up the phone, walks across the road and has time to settle in leaning against the wall as was described by the witnesses. The witnesses then pull up in their car and wait for a change of lights. They go through and see another car approaching SS but decide not to go back. We don't know what happened with the second car except that by the time the cab got there it was nowhere in sight and nor was SS. 3 minutes just seems too tight.

I guess what is important though is that if it was indeed 3 minutes that makes it almost certain that the second car was involved in the disappearance. Timeframe is tight as it is, can't see there being time for someone else to be involved in between that car and the taxi arriving.

According to the Criminal Investigation Australia show the taxi was driving down Stirling Highway and could see to the phone box.

One thing on discussion of a car or taxi. I don't know if its just me or if others have had a tradie van with a ladder or other equipment on top and looked in the rear view mirror and thought I have a cop behind me (or similarly a taxi) and after conveniently driving the exact speed limit the car passes and you realise it is a tradie van. Maybe a car with a ladder on top at initial thought may after a couple of drinks look like a taxi because there is something on the roof.
 
I agree with you CP345. This taxi thing is really getting to me. You know, I think that SS might have been different perps, like Perpendicular said, the two that tried and failed before with the bloke hiding in the back (my Lord what a frightening experience for the poor woman, but amazingly she escaped with a broken ankle!) What if others didn't and SS was one of them? This "private taxi" idea keeps coming to me. Long before Uber of course, but easy enough to do a little moonlighting on a weekend/public holiday with a converted white car with a taxi light maybe from a wreckers yard? I don't know, maybe a clever person could just rig one up with a white light and lettering? Dark night, white car, looks like taxi, very tired, want to go home, feeling frightened and vulnerable, previous scenario of "you waiting for a taxi love?" SS (or any other poor unsuspecting female) gets in, is IMMEDIATELY attacked and restrained before she can see there is no meter inside the car etc. and off the horrible duo go into the black night. It's so sinister, but I can see how it would be extremely effective as a "lure". The more I read the more amazed I am at how many creeps were/are out there at any one time. We teach kids Stranger Danger over and over at school but maybe we should be constantly reminding young women AND men, that there is safety in numbers and not to walk off on your own and think you'll be safe, anywhere! Always have your antennae up, alert but not alarmed as they say.

Just one more thing too regarding the idea that SS was taken by others. The fact that JR and CG weren't well hidden, in fact it has been alluded to by Paul Ferguson as mentioned before, that CSK WANTED the bodies to be found. This could be the MO of the killer of JR and CG but NOT the other perps. who were more experienced perhaps, different MO and had no intention of SS ever being found, and so we never will? Terribly tragic if this is the case.
 
I'm leaning towards 8 minutes. Think about all that needed to happen in the time between the call and the cab arriving. SS hangs up the phone, walks across the road and has time to settle in leaning against the wall as was described by the witnesses. The witnesses then pull up in their car and wait for a change of lights. They go through and see another car approaching SS but decide not to go back. We don't know what happened with the second car except that by the time the cab got there it was nowhere in sight and nor was SS. 3 minutes just seems too tight.

I guess what is important though is that if it was indeed 3 minutes that makes it almost certain that the second car was involved in the disappearance. Timeframe is tight as it is, can't see there being time for someone else to be involved in between that car and the taxi arriving.

Wonder what the traffic light cycles were on that intersection. How long were the 3 guys waiting to turn onto Stirling Highway? If we knew, then it would close the window perhaps further. Awfully tight for the perpetrator.


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According to the Criminal Investigation Australia show the taxi was driving down Stirling Highway and could see to the phone box.

RSBM

Well that would rule out the possibility of it being the 'other car'.


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Just one more thing too regarding the idea that SS was taken by others. The fact that JR and CG weren't well hidden, in fact it has been alluded to by Paul Ferguson as mentioned before, that CSK WANTED the bodies to be found. This could be the MO of the killer of JR and CG but NOT the other perps. who were more experienced perhaps, different MO and had no intention of SS ever being found, and so we never will? Terribly tragic if this is the case.

taking on board all discussed in last few comments, myself i believe it more likely that the cases of SS, JR & CG are actually connected AND would like to add - that despite all/any(?) searches made for the missing girls - JR & CG were NOT "found" as a consequence, but merely stumbled upon by chance! therefore i do not give a rats to whether paul ferguson may have alluded to the killer having wanted his victims found ...we are ALL alluding... but sensibly, as long as the killer could not be connected to his crimes I believe he probably cared NOT as to whether they were found.

the sites as i have seen in photos are midst some very harsh looking country ... where perhaps someone, some day, might also just accidentally stumble upon the remains of SS
...as i elaborated on in my recent post #1417
[emoji887]
 
taking on board all discussed in last few comments, myself i believe it more likely that the cases of SS, JR & CG are actually connected AND would like to add - that despite all/any(?) searches made for the missing girls - JR & CG were NOT "found" as a consequence, but merely stumbled upon by chance! therefore i do not give a rats to whether paul ferguson may have alluded to the killer having wanted his victims found ...we are ALL alluding... but sensibly, as long as the killer could not be connected to his crimes I believe he probably cared NOT as to whether they were found.

the sites as i have seen in photos are midst some very harsh looking country ... where perhaps someone, some day, might also just accidentally stumble upon the remains of SS
...as i elaborated on in my recent post #1417
[emoji887]

I hope you are right, because otherwise we have another killer out there who is even harder to find...


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