Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

[petedavo.au]

I hope you are right, because otherwise we have another killer out there who is even harder to find...


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Unfortunately, there are other disappearances that aren't connected to CSK according to Police. Kerry Turner, Julie Cutler, Nannup Cult, etc, etc. Unsolved

 

[Molly Dooker]

Unfortunately, there are other disappearances that aren't connected to CSK according to Police. Kerry Turner, Julie Cutler, Nannup Cult, etc, etc. Unsolved

Yes, of course.


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[BReVeTTe]

I hope you are right, because otherwise we have another killer out there who is even harder to find...

my assessment and conclusion in this instance stems only from the very precious little we've been fed by TPTB, but yes molly, i agree it would be preferable to think, at worst, that there was only the one, however WA seemingly has a history that would suggest otherwise

Unfortunately, there are other disappearances that aren't connected to CSK according to Police. Kerry Turner, Julie Cutler, Nannup Cult, etc, etc. Unsolved

...etcetera. ad finitum


[emoji887]

 

[janwa]

taking on board all discussed in last few comments, myself i believe it more likely that the cases of SS, JR & CG are actually connected AND would like to add - that despite all/any(?) searches made for the missing girls - JR & CG were NOT "found" as a consequence, but merely stumbled upon by chance! therefore i do not give a rats to whether paul ferguson may have alluded to the killer having wanted his victims found ...we are ALL alluding... but sensibly, as long as the killer could not be connected to his crimes I believe he probably cared NOT as to whether they were found.

the sites as i have seen in photos are midst some very harsh looking country ... where perhaps someone, some day, might also just accidentally stumble upon the remains of SS
...as i elaborated on in my recent post #1417
[emoji887]

As you can see from the following description even though the Kwinana Freeway goes through there are a lot of undeveloped areas with swamps. I have travelled to Mandurah for years originally it was a cut lunch and water bag job with a stop of at the little shop on the Old Mandurah Rd for ice cream, it is still a bit back woods if you go the Kargotich Rd route anything could be out there just off road.


South of the Rowley Road diamond interchange, development is sparse, except in Bertram, southwest of the Thomas Road interchange. The freeway progresses through swampy rural land for 3.4 kilometres (2.1 mi),[SUP][17][/SUP] passing by Lake Balmanup in Wandi on its way to the diamond interchange at Anketell Road. The Kwinana Freeway continues south along the edge of Jandakot Regional Park, near to The Spectacles Wetlands, reaching Thomas Road after another 2.4 kilometres (1.5 mi).[SUP][17][/SUP] The Mandurah rail line deviates from the freeway median 1 kilometre (0.62 mi)[SUP][17][/SUP] north of the interchange, thereafter travelling south-west towards Rockingham. From Thomas Road to the next interchange at Mortimer Road, 2.7 kilometres (1.7 mi)[SUP][17][/SUP] further south, the land to the west of the freeway in Bertram has been developed into a residential area. After the latter interchange, development again becomes sparse, as the freeway travels south near swampland and bodies of water, including Folly Pool and Maramanup Pool. The next interchanges are with Mundijong Road after 4.7 kilometres (2.9 mi),[SUP][17][/SUP] Safety Bay Road after another 3.9 kilometres (2.4 mi),[SUP][17][/SUP] and Karnup Road following a further 5.2 kilometres (3.2 mi).[SUP][17][/SUP] There is a pocket of newly developed urban land near Safety Bay Road, south of the freeway.( Wikiped)

 

[janwa]

The timeframes when the freeway sections were built might be helpful,

Planning for the Kwinana Freeway began in the 1950s, and the first segment in South Perth was constructed between 1956 and 1959. The route has been progressively widened and extended south since then. During the 1980s, the freeway was extended to South Street in Murdoch, and in June 2001, it reached Safety Bay Road in Baldivis. The final extension began as the New Perth Bunbury Highway project, constructed between December 2006 and September 2009. In early 2009, the section north of Pinjarra Road was named as part of the Kwinana Freeway, with the remainder named Forrest Highway. The freeway has been adapted to cater for public transport, with the introduction of bus priority measures in 1987, and the 2007 opening of the Mandurah railway line, constructed in the freeway median strip.

 

[7SJ707]

The often discussed person" hiding" in the back of Cab / ladys broken ankle incident may have a simple explanation, As i have already posted the Taxi situation from 12 am to 4 am around nightclub areas in Perth was scandalous. So many arguments, brawls on Taxi ranks , drunken squabbles over hailing /sharing Taxis, and evasion over paying shared fares at first drop off point
Taxi drivers were not interested in it ,-as soon as any customer dispute,drunken behaviour or fight started they were off -even if all four doors were open -they would pull up 100 metres down the road and close the doors for whoever was still inside and drive them home, or kick them out and find another fare.
Saw it myself hundreds of times. Taxi Drivers were out working a busy high demand night shift and time was money-getting involved in incidents meant spending all night at the Cop station making statements , fronting up in court as witnesses and possibly being sued themselves. No money in that.
The guy "hiding " in the back seat could have simply been a troublesome very drunk yobbo who was slouched in the back and only going a short fare.
Taxi drivers with a back seat passenger like this this had no qualms about pulling up and asking other persons who were hailing on the street if they wanted to share fare , ostensibly trying to "help " the original passenger by splitting ,but the real reason was hoping to get a longer fare and more coin for themselves.
Perhaps the lady was unaware of the guy in the back and upon discovering him tried to get out and get a cab to herself as she had intended (this is th Western Suburbs ) at which point the drunken yobbo tried to grab her and talk gibberish as drunks are won't to do-so the Taxi driver just floored it and she fell and broke her ankle. We only have her version of what happened unfortunately.
Neither the drunk nor the Taxi driver would be likely to come forward and admit their liability for her injury- just one of the many many drunken violent scenesthat took place on Perth streets involving scarce Taxis.
The only time Cab drivers would go to the police was if they themselves were actually assaulted by a passenger-they knew there was a quid it for them with Victims of Crime compensation and associated civil claims so it was worthwhile.
IMO the CSK was a lone operator with secrets to terrible to share with any other.

 

[lampformypath]

The often discussed person" hiding" in the back of Cab / ladys broken ankle incident may have a simple explanation, As i have already posted the Taxi situation from 12 am to 4 am around nightclub areas in Perth was scandalous. So many arguments, brawls on Taxi ranks , drunken squabbles over hailing /sharing Taxis, and evasion over paying shared fares at first drop off point
Taxi drivers were not interested in it ,-as soon as any customer dispute,drunken behaviour or fight started they were off -even if all four doors were open -they would pull up 100 metres down the road and close the doors for whoever was still inside and drive them home, or kick them out and find another fare.
Saw it myself hundreds of times. Taxi Drivers were out working a busy high demand night shift and time was money-getting involved in incidents meant spending all night at the Cop station making statements , fronting up in court as witnesses and possibly being sued themselves. No money in that.
The guy "hiding " in the back seat could have simply been a troublesome very drunk yobbo who was slouched in the back and only going a short fare.
Taxi drivers with a back seat passenger like this this had no qualms about pulling up and asking other persons who were hailing on the street if they wanted to share fare , ostensibly trying to "help " the original passenger by splitting ,but the real reason was hoping to get a longer fare and more coin for themselves.
Perhaps the lady was unaware of the guy in the back and upon discovering him tried to get out and get a cab to herself as she had intended (this is th Western Suburbs ) at which point the drunken yobbo tried to grab her and talk gibberish as drunks are won't to do-so the Taxi driver just floored it and she fell and broke her ankle. We only have her version of what happened unfortunately.
Neither the drunk nor the Taxi driver would be likely to come forward and admit their liability for her injury- just one of the many many drunken violent scenesthat took place on Perth streets involving scarce Taxis.
The only time Cab drivers would go to the police was if they themselves were actually assaulted by a paseinger-they knew there was a quid it for them with Victims of Crime compensation and associated civil claims so it was worthwhile.
IMO the CSK was a lone operator with secrets to terrible to share with any other.

Take all your points on board (no pun intended) 7SJ707. But I've been doing a bit of research about taxi incidents and there have been a few rather nasty ones which make you wonder just how many dodgy drivers there are out there still? I wonder how many women (and men too) haven't reported stuff that's happened on a night out and a lone taxi journey?

Driver not wearing any pants! (Don't you love the journo who thought up this headline, no strides ride!)
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/girl-gets-a-no-strides-ride-in-perth-cab/news-story/e8260f055019766d7d47e77432b31859
Rapist taxi driver:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/taxi-drivers-rape-appeal-thrown-out/news-story/c873b526143284f4ffe8c2b3dfa5df7f
The “leaping lady”:
http://missingandmurderedaustralia.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/claremont-timeline.html
Excerpt from site below: BBM & underlined, the driverwas in on it by the looks of things!
“1994 Oct A 31-year-old woman breaks herankle when she leaps from a speeding taxi on Princess Road after the driver and another man try toattack her.”

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/taxi-driver-charged-with-sex-assault-of-kalgoorlie-girl-17/news-story/fd97ecb7511777b91feccddc188f1e02
Excerpt from site below BBM:
“ANOTHER taxi driverhas been charged over an alleged sexual assault at the weekend — the second allegation against a WA cabbiein seven days.”

https://www.shine.com.au/blog/abuse-law/taxis-under-fire-sexual-assault/
Excerpt below from this site: BBM
“Motor vehicles pose as one of theeasiest places for criminals to gain control over victims in these type ofsexual assault situations.
Whilepassengers are not assured safety in any transport service, unregistered taxi companies or ride-sharingservices like Uber present greater risks for both men and women in terms ofsafety and liability.”

 

[lampformypath]

This new tv show might be worth watching:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/entertainm...-killers/ar-AAnM59d?li=AAsuto&ocid=spartandhp

Quotes from the show, interviews with some older style homicide squad detectives with 90% success rate! Starts with a rather novel approach to interviewing a murder suspect:

"...such as the suburban detective who shot a beer bottle off the head of an uncooperative suspect William Tell style. It worked as the bloke had a change of heart (and underwear), soon seeing the advantages in telling the truth."

And this quote:

"It is central to the squad's code: "No greater honour will ever be bestowed on an officer, or a more profound duty imposed on him, than when he is entrusted with the investigation of the death of a human being. It is his duty to find the facts, regardless of colour or creed, without prejudice, and to let no power on earth deter him from presenting these facts to the court without regard to personality."

Cold case team: L-R: Leading Senior Constable Lee Preston (analyst), Detective Senior Constable Ben Aulich, Detective Sergeant Paul Rowe, Detective Senior Constable …etc. (see site for other names)

 

[7SJ707]

In regard to BRE not being charged with any other crimes....if the arrest was in the bad old days of the Silver Fox and his criminal cronies you be sure some bricked evidence would have magically appeared in relation to other suspected crimes (whether he actually committed them or not.)
A fingerprint here, a planted trinket or trophy...an unsigned confession or notes of an" off record " conversation whilst transporting him.....just improvement enough to get it over the line. It is pretty revealing about past WAPOL history that former State prosecutor LR when asked why he hadn't initially been forthcoming to police re the tragedy of his wifes murder replied "I was afraid that they would try and fit me up for it". He of all people would know.
I think that case was a turning point for the Western Australian Police
Times have changed and embarrassing lessons have been learnt. I believe there has been a changing of the guard and cases will stand and fall on legitimate evidence obtained through modern methods. Suspicion and ' noble cause " isn't good enough- BRE has only been charged at this point with what they feel they have a fair chance of proving.
All JMO .

 

[lampformypath]

"Mr Ross said he was not interested in talking to the police unless they released his taxi computer records for late January 1996. "I've got an alibi, but they won't give it to me," he said. "Without those records, I don't have an alibi for the time Sarah Spiers disappeared". "What if they accuse me of it? I know I was working that night., doing radio jobs. The computer records will prove it." He said he also wanted police to produce the young Dalkeith woman to corroborate his story. He said he had spoken to Sarah's father Don, many times of his suspicions about his male passenger. Mr Spiers had taken this information to police, he said. "
http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t3771.htm

BBM & underlined. So there were computer records, but he was doing "radio jobs"? Were some taxis still phasing in computers as I think Bunnie said computers had only been in for 8 months in 1996? Would this have made it easier for a "private" taxi to be working weekends/holidays with a two way during this transitional time?

 

[Bunnie]

I'm leaning towards 8 minutes. Think about all that needed to happen in the time between the call and the cab arriving. SS hangs up the phone, walks across the road and has time to settle in leaning against the wall as was described by the witnesses. The witnesses then pull up in their car and wait for a change of lights. They go through and see another car approaching SS but decide not to go back. We don't know what happened with the second car except that by the time the cab got there it was nowhere in sight and nor was SS. 3 minutes just seems too tight.

I guess what is important though is that if it was indeed 3 minutes that makes it almost certain that the second car was involved in the disappearance. Timeframe is tight as it is, can't see there being time for someone else to be involved in between that car and the taxi arriving.

It was 3 minutes. Crime stoppers had that correct. But it was 2:08am. Driver indicated NT (not there) 2:11am.

 

[Bunnie]

"Mr Ross said he was not interested in talking to the police unless they released his taxi computer records for late January 1996. "I've got an alibi, but they won't give it to me," he said. "Without those records, I don't have an alibi for the time Sarah Spiers disappeared". "What if they accuse me of it? I know I was working that night., doing radio jobs. The computer records will prove it." He said he also wanted police to produce the young Dalkeith woman to corroborate his story. He said he had spoken to Sarah's father Don, many times of his suspicions about his male passenger. Mr Spiers had taken this information to police, he said. "
http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t3771.htm

BBM & underlined. So there were computer records, but he was doing "radio jobs"? Were some taxis still phasing in computers as I think Bunnie said computers had only been in for 8 months in 1996? Would this have made it easier for a "private" taxi to be working weekends/holidays with a two way during this transitional time?

Nope. No phase in. All computerised. He was not getting jobs via the two-way only the raywood screen. Two way was only for communication purposes, and reporting fares not there so they could be cleared to receive jobs. And the two way was only two way as in base could hear drivers, and drivers could hear base but other drivers could not hear each other.

 

[Bunnie]

Good thinking Molly Dooker! When my Dad drove a taxi it was the case that they turned the light off at the top when they weren't available as they'd either picked up a fare, or were knocking off for the night, but that was long ago and far away so we need our Bunnie to tell us how it is in modern day (not when Fred Flintstone was hailing stone taxis!)

The older style signs had a rotating engaged/vacant/not for hire sign that changed when the meter went on. They were phased out for the new lighted signs. These signs had to be lit for the entire shift - drivers picking up fares with the light off were fined by the tribunal. They had a little orange light on the very top( and later the sides) that lit up when engaged. The sign stayed lit the entire time it was on the road as a taxi. It was only allowed off when being used as a private vehicle.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Just found old post and table image from Peter Kurten in Thread 5, post #1373. (no source provided in original post)

"I'm submitting the following table to this thread for reference. It includes the analysis of over 50 US Serial Killers and the spatial patterns of their Points of Fatal Encounters (PFE's) and the Body Disposal sites (BD's). If we consider, for the purposes of discussion only, that the first crime was the Karrakatta rape and the point at which the killer let the victim go was the BD, then we can use these to predict, on some kind of basis, the home location/anchor point of the offender. Also note, the first and third data points have statistical significance beyond what is considered acceptable for empirical judgements (beyond 0.05). "

Anyone keen to compare values in this table to the alleged CSK BRE suspected cases???

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Some sleuthers have proposed that the accused BRE was copy-catting other famous SK's.
One in particular John Wayne Gacy, known as the clown killer.

"Clowns can get away with murder"
Gacy killed 33 young men and boys.

http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gacy-john-photos-2.htm

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Some sleuthers have proposed that the accused BRE was copy-catting other famous SK's.
One in particular John Wayne Gacy, known as the clown killer.

"Clowns can get away with murder"
Gacy killed 33 young men and boys.

http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gacy-john-photos-2.htm

"In June 1972, Gacy married Carole Hoff, an acquaintance from his teenage years. Hoff and her two daughters moved into the Summerdale Avenue house. In 1975, Gacy started his own business, PDM Contractors, a construction company. At the same time, his marriage began to deteriorate. The Gacys' sex life came to a halt, and John Gacy would go out late and stay out all night. Carole Gacy found wallets with IDs from young men lying around. John Gacy began bringing gay *advertiser censored* into the house. The Gacys divorced in March 1976."

http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gacy-john-wayne.htm


John Wayne Gacy's 2nd wife was a divorced mother of 2 young daughters, and her name was Carole HOFF!

Amusing and beguiling coincidence!

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

"In June 1972, Gacy married Carole Hoff, an acquaintance from his teenage years. Hoff and her two daughters moved into the Summerdale Avenue house. In 1975, Gacy started his own business, PDM Contractors, a construction company. At the same time, his marriage began to deteriorate. The Gacys' sex life came to a halt, and John Gacy would go out late and stay out all night. Carole Gacy found wallets with IDs from young men lying around. John Gacy began bringing gay *advertiser censored* into the house. The Gacys divorced in March 1976."

http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gacy-john-wayne.htm


John Wayne Gacy's 2nd wife was a divorced mother of 2 young daughters, and her name was Carole HOFF!

Amusing and beguiling coincidence!

JOHN WAYNE GACY was born on St Patricks Day to Irish Parents.......
another ridiculous coincidence to (near) the date of CG's disappearance!

"Chicago's Irish inhabitants and Mr. and Mrs. John Wayne Gacy marked the day with celebration. It was St. Patrick’s Day and Marion Elaine Robinson Gacy and John Wayne Gacy, Sr. welcomed their first son into the world at Edgewater Hospital in 1942."


http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gacy-john-wayne.htm

 

[MsAnais]

JOHN WAYNE GACY was born on St Patricks Day to Irish Parents.......
another ridiculous coincidence to (near) the date of CG's disappearance!

"Chicago's Irish inhabitants and Mr. and Mrs. John Wayne Gacy marked the day with celebration. It was St. Patrick’s Day and Marion Elaine Robinson Gacy and John Wayne Gacy, Sr. welcomed their first son into the world at Edgewater Hospital in 1942."


http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gacy-john-wayne.htm

John Wayne Gacy was NOT born to Irish parents - he was of Polish and Danish descent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy

And I think we need to be careful extrapolating too wildly with 'coincidences'.....the early threads were just a nightmare of false links. It's hard to even get through Thread One because of some of the speculation......

Gacy's crimes were against young guys...he picked them up at bus stations or through his work.....his MO was completely different.....

BRE may have drawn ideas from Gacy's 'unpstanding citizen' gimmick, I totally agree. I'm sure many SK's were inspired by the way Gacy demonstrated what having a good facade could do....

But I think it gets really messy if we try to create links that don't necessarily exist.

JMO

 

[lampformypath]

John Wayne Gacy was NOT born to Irish parents - he was of Polish and Danish descent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy

And I think we need to be careful extrapolating too wildly with 'coincidences'.....the early threads were just a nightmare of false links. It's hard to even get through Thread One because of some of the speculation......

Gacy's crimes were against young guys...he picked them up at bus stations or through his work.....his MO was completely different.....

BRE may have drawn ideas from Gacy's 'unpstanding citizen' gimmick, I totally agree. I'm sure many SK's were inspired by the way Gacy demonstrated what having a good facade could do....

But I think it gets really messy if we try to create links that don't necessarily exist.

JMO

Totally agree! And I'm the Queen of Coincidences, but the St Patrick's Day and such, come on Spooks, that's wild, even for me!!

 

[lampformypath]

Just found old post and table image from Peter Kurten in Thread 5, post #1373. (no source provided in original post)

"I'm submitting the following table to this thread for reference. It includes the analysis of over 50 US Serial Killers and the spatial patterns of their Points of Fatal Encounters (PFE's) and the Body Disposal sites (BD's). If we consider, for the purposes of discussion only, that the first crime was the Karrakatta rape and the point at which the killer let the victim go was the BD, then we can use these to predict, on some kind of basis, the home location/anchor point of the offender. Also note, the first and third data points have statistical significance beyond what is considered acceptable for empirical judgements (beyond 0.05). "

Anyone keen to compare values in this table to the alleged CSK BRE suspected cases???

This is fascinating Spooks. And very creepy as the BD gets closer and closer to home with each murder? More and more brazen and confident, and definitely worth thinking about.