Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #14

[meticulously]

Thanks Meticulously,
I have gone to the media only thread#75 and found this:
Video: 'He Who Waits' [/URL]

However when I go to abc can not find or access this video. I searched name and date, and this title did not come up. Can you please advise or post full frame photo is you have it?

#Innerchild yep agreed its very hard to watch , very tricky actually. it took me a year of attempting to watch the doco on a cheap phone then one day in February this year i got to use an iPad and i tried it and it played although there was a major rebooting issue half way through it & had to restart / wait etc . I may have even missed some but i saw the CAR but there was nothing i could do about it because there was no chance of replaying or frame grabs . If you read my comments you'll see that i have asked for help with this video and often other ones due to my mobile ph gadget being low-tech.
Keep trying to find it is all i can offer you, try a different computer Goodluck

.

 

[Spinnaker]

It has been hard to get information as there was little reporting in the early days and some conflicting reports and assumptions that police may have made.

It seems her car was found within a few hours of it going in the water with its headlights still on and this was deduced from battery life left.

Little or any tidal movement but on its way in, a southerly current, no storms at the time. I'm attaching a summary of some of the articles.

My question Spinnaker was why did she have a black evening dress and her work uniform in a plastic bag, but one of these articles seems to say she had work until 9.00.pm then a work function until seen at 12.30 am and plastic bag with work shirt and pantyhose handed in after being left at King Kebabs. (this may be another article, I have).

"finished her shift at a posh central Perth hotellate on the Sunday night, donned her fast-gear and aimed for the dance floor.The Parmelia Hilton was holding a staff awards night and Julie Cutler wasinvited.

At around 12.30 am the next morning, Monday 20th June, wearing a high-collaredblack evening dress, with gold buttons on the shoulder, and a pair of blackpatent leather shoes Julie leaves the nightclub and heads for the staff carpark. She is seen by another member of staff unlocking the passenger side doorof her car (apparently the driver’s side door could not be opened from theoutside). A witness spots Julie sitting in the front of her car in the car parkand rummaging through her bag. It is the last known sighting of her.

Later that same day a car’s backseat was retrieved from the sea, near thegroyne, at Cottesloe Beach. According to newspaper reports, it wasn’t until theafternoon of Wednesday, the 22nd June that the car the seat belonged to wasnoticed - upside-down in the surf close to Cottesloe Beach groyne that pointslike a wand west and towards the environs of Rottnest Island. The car, a Fiat125 was Julie's.

The ‘West Australian’ newspaper, which had been rather quiet about Julie'sdisappearance, announced on page 8 of its 23rd June edition, that Julie’s 1963(sic) Fiat sedan had been found early on Wednesday afternoon, in the surf nextto the groyne at Cottesloe Beach. They said that Det. Sgt. Vince Katich, who isin charge of the investigation, is mystified and remained open- minded regardingwhat might have happened to Julie.

On Friday 24th June 1988, on page 3 (a whole 5 pages more prominence) the ‘WestAustralian’ reports that the back seat of Julie’s car was found in the sea,near the groyne, on Monday. Thecar was discovered 35 metres from the beach and had been left with its ignitionand lights on, front driver’s side window open, rear doors locked and bothfront doors unlocked. Det. Sgt. Katich is appealing for a man and a woman seenexiting the hotel just after Julie to come forward. Police also appeal foranyone who saw Julie’s car parked either on the slip road near the surf club ornearby to contact them.

On Wednesday 29th June, on page 3, the ‘West Australian’ writes that the Fiatis grey and that Julie worked as a barmaid at the hotel. The newspaper saysthat a woman phoned their offices on Monday 27th and asked to be left alone.They report that Julie’s sister, Nicole says it might have been Julie.

The Daily News (a now defunt paper) 23rd June edition, led the day with newsthat Julie’s car was a two-tone Fiat sedan; Julie’s mother was dead and thather father, Roger Cutler who lived in Kalgoorlie, was un-contactable at thetime of Julie’s disappearance. In the same edition, on page 6, a lengthytwo-day article started on the 13-year-old unsolved execution of societybrothel madam, Shirley Finn.
The Friday 24th edition, on page 7, says that Julie’s car was a 1973 two-toneFiat sedan and that she worked as a room-service employee at the hotel. Parttwo of the Shirley Finn story continues.
On page 12 of Monday’s Daily News Julie’s dad, Roger is interviewed. He isconvinced that Julie is dead. He says that there was no reason for her to runaway and that whenever she had a problem, no matter what, she would talk to himabout it. She is just not the sort of girl who would do this, he said. MrCutler said that Julie had been away for 6 months the previous year; travellingin Europe and that whenever she was worried about anything while she was awayshe would contact him. He said she was working in the Parmelia Hilton tofinance her next trip away. Julie, he said, had bought her car with money shehad saved herself. It was described as a two-tone Fiat sedan with a gun-barrelgrey bottom and silver-grey top.
Daily News 30th June 1988: the car is now a 1968 Fiat 125 sedan. The paperprints a photograph of a poster that Julie’s friends and family aredistributing that shows two photos of Julie and a picture of a similar car.Julie’s 21-year-old sister, Nicole pleads, “For God’s sake let her go!” Nicole,the paper says, is sure that her sister would not have run away without anymoney or without telling them. There was no way she would have just left hercar in the place it was found either- she would have sold it, Nicole says.
Police appeal for anyone who finds a light-brown leather handbag and a plasticbag with a white blouse and black skirt (her hotel uniform) inside it to informthem."

I worked part-time at a Perth 5 star hotel during the time that JC went missing. 5 star hotels laundered your uniforms for you, to maintain standards. It's quite possible that the work uniform was put into a plastic bag for laundering. This would not include however any personal items. It is therefore important to clarify what was actually in the plastic bag, did this include any personal items? Could perhaps this have been someone else's from the hotel leaving the uniform behind in the kebab shop?

EDIT: Have WAPOL conducted DNA testing on the work uniform?

 

[7SJ707]

I remember the work blouse and dress were handed in to Police several months after JC went missing. I am going entirely off memory here ,bearing in mind it was nearly 30 years ago and shockingly undereported at the time but I was under the impression the bag was left under a table at a very popular high volume breakfast /lunch diner called Apollos or something similar a few doors up from the tobbaconist shop on the corner of Hay Street.
I remember thinking at the time it was exactly the type of place you might slide into for an unobtrusive coffee at 8 or 9 am on the way to pick up your own vehicle from the city carparks after being up all night getting up to no good disposing of someone elses. Anything not of value left under those tables either deliberately or inadverdently through being tired could rightly be expected to go straight in the trash.
However due to the style of diner tables and the frequency of people leaving handbags. shopping etc behind , I have been informed they actually had a lost property storage area out the back and this is where it sat until its signifigance was realised and it was handed in.
It is only in later years I have seen reference to "King Kebabs" which I assume would me more of a late night eatery catering for the Pub/ Nightclub crowd on King Street,and unlikely to have long term lost property storage.


o

 

[DRT]

It has been hard to get information as there was little reporting in the early days and some conflicting reports and assumptions that police may have made.

It seems her car was found within a few hours of it going in the water with its headlights still on and this was deduced from battery life left.

Little or any tidal movement but on its way in, a southerly current, no storms at the time. I'm attaching a summary of some of the articles.

My question Spinnaker was why did she have a black evening dress and her work uniform in a plastic bag, but one of these articles seems to say she had work until 9.00.pm then a work function until seen at 12.30 am and plastic bag with work shirt and pantyhose handed in after being left at King Kebabs. (this may be another article, I have).

"finished her shift at a posh central Perth hotellate on the Sunday night, donned her fast-gear and aimed for the dance floor.The Parmelia Hilton was holding a staff awards night and Julie Cutler wasinvited.

At around 12.30 am the next morning, Monday 20th June, wearing a high-collaredblack evening dress, with gold buttons on the shoulder, and a pair of blackpatent leather shoes Julie leaves the nightclub and heads for the staff carpark. She is seen by another member of staff unlocking the passenger side doorof her car (apparently the driver’s side door could not be opened from theoutside). A witness spots Julie sitting in the front of her car in the car parkand rummaging through her bag. It is the last known sighting of her.

Later that same day a car’s backseat was retrieved from the sea, near thegroyne, at Cottesloe Beach. According to newspaper reports, it wasn’t until theafternoon of Wednesday, the 22nd June that the car the seat belonged to wasnoticed - upside-down in the surf close to Cottesloe Beach groyne that pointslike a wand west and towards the environs of Rottnest Island. The car, a Fiat125 was Julie's.

The ‘West Australian’ newspaper, which had been rather quiet about Julie'sdisappearance, announced on page 8 of its 23rd June edition, that Julie’s 1963(sic) Fiat sedan had been found early on Wednesday afternoon, in the surf nextto the groyne at Cottesloe Beach. They said that Det. Sgt. Vince Katich, who isin charge of the investigation, is mystified and remained open- minded regardingwhat might have happened to Julie.

On Friday 24th June 1988, on page 3 (a whole 5 pages more prominence) the ‘WestAustralian’ reports that the back seat of Julie’s car was found in the sea,near the groyne, on Monday. Thecar was discovered 35 metres from the beach and had been left with its ignitionand lights on, front driver’s side window open, rear doors locked and bothfront doors unlocked. Det. Sgt. Katich is appealing for a man and a woman seenexiting the hotel just after Julie to come forward. Police also appeal foranyone who saw Julie’s car parked either on the slip road near the surf club ornearby to contact them.

On Wednesday 29th June, on page 3, the ‘West Australian’ writes that the Fiatis grey and that Julie worked as a barmaid at the hotel. The newspaper saysthat a woman phoned their offices on Monday 27th and asked to be left alone.They report that Julie’s sister, Nicole says it might have been Julie.

The Daily News (a now defunt paper) 23rd June edition, led the day with newsthat Julie’s car was a two-tone Fiat sedan; Julie’s mother was dead and thather father, Roger Cutler who lived in Kalgoorlie, was un-contactable at thetime of Julie’s disappearance. In the same edition, on page 6, a lengthytwo-day article started on the 13-year-old unsolved execution of societybrothel madam, Shirley Finn.
The Friday 24th edition, on page 7, says that Julie’s car was a 1973 two-toneFiat sedan and that she worked as a room-service employee at the hotel. Parttwo of the Shirley Finn story continues.
On page 12 of Monday’s Daily News Julie’s dad, Roger is interviewed. He isconvinced that Julie is dead. He says that there was no reason for her to runaway and that whenever she had a problem, no matter what, she would talk to himabout it. She is just not the sort of girl who would do this, he said. MrCutler said that Julie had been away for 6 months the previous year; travellingin Europe and that whenever she was worried about anything while she was awayshe would contact him. He said she was working in the Parmelia Hilton tofinance her next trip away. Julie, he said, had bought her car with money shehad saved herself. It was described as a two-tone Fiat sedan with a gun-barrelgrey bottom and silver-grey top.
Daily News 30th June 1988: the car is now a 1968 Fiat 125 sedan. The paperprints a photograph of a poster that Julie’s friends and family aredistributing that shows two photos of Julie and a picture of a similar car.Julie’s 21-year-old sister, Nicole pleads, “For God’s sake let her go!” Nicole,the paper says, is sure that her sister would not have run away without anymoney or without telling them. There was no way she would have just left hercar in the place it was found either- she would have sold it, Nicole says.
Police appeal for anyone who finds a light-brown leather handbag and a plasticbag with a white blouse and black skirt (her hotel uniform) inside it to informthem."

http://www.news.com.au/news/vanishe...g/news-story/1f9da6564bf58fdfb6f6532c5e7b5d2f

Thanks for the summary. The plastic bag found didn't have her black dress in it only the hotel uniform (black skirt, white blouse) and a black pair of pantyhose. I never realised that police reported they were looking for the plastic bag. Not all in the article I have quoted is correct but I assume she got changed and put the items in a plastic bag.

While her sister said her purse was found at home, questioning whether JC had been home. This was posted in a recent article however I can't find the link. I know people often don't bring a purse in if they are going out just put some money in a small bag and its less to carry. As she had a handbag, its likely she had money.

It was interesting to note that the backseat was found before the rest of the car indicating the backseat was disposed of first and the car later. I can't imagine that if they were dumped further out to sea that a car would come in later or at all. JMO.

I am not sure how it is in Perth but for the Entertainment Industry the weekend is often Sunday/Monday/Tuesday. As a result, Monday is often the big night out. Some clubs/pubs may cater for this.

One other thing is the reason JC was linked to the CSK was because of a possible connection with LW. Quoting another Websleuths link for this.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...er-1996-1997-Perth-Western-Australia-5/page12 thread #175

The above has a link to a dropbox with a Sunday Times Article.
One of the main reasons that JC was linked to the CSK initially was because LW spent 6 months doing the same course as JC at W.A.I.T. now Curtin University.

The article also notes Stirling Highway was her normal route home.

 

[Canning Vale]

I worked part-time at a Perth 5 star hotel during the time that JC went missing. 5 star hotels laundered your uniforms for you, to maintain standards. It's quite possible that the work uniform was put into a plastic bag for laundering. This would not include however any personal items. It is therefore important to clarify what was actually in the plastic bag, did this include any personal items? Could perhaps this have been someone else's from the hotel leaving the uniform behind in the kebab shop?

EDIT: Have WAPOL conducted DNA testing on the work uniform?

Evidently the clothing was the same size as JC. Sorry I can't remember where I read that.

 

[Spinnaker]

http://www.news.com.au/news/vanishe...g/news-story/1f9da6564bf58fdfb6f6532c5e7b5d2f

Thanks for the summary. The plastic bag found didn't have her black dress in it only the hotel uniform (black skirt, white blouse) and a black pair of pantyhose. I never realised that police reported they were looking for the plastic bag. Not all in the article I have quoted is correct but I assume she got changed and put the items in a plastic bag.

While her sister said her purse was found at home, questioning whether JC had been home. This was posted in a recent article however I can't find the link. I know people often don't bring a purse in if they are going out just put some money in a small bag and its less to carry. As she had a handbag, its likely she had money.

It was interesting to note that the backseat was found before the rest of the car indicating the backseat was disposed of first and the car later. I can't imagine that if they were dumped further out to sea that a car would come in later or at all. JMO.

I am not sure how it is in Perth but for the Entertainment Industry the weekend is often Sunday/Monday/Tuesday. As a result, Monday is often the big night out. Some clubs/pubs may cater for this.

One other thing is the reason JC was linked to the CSK was because of a possible connection with LW. Quoting another Websleuths link for this.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...er-1996-1997-Perth-Western-Australia-5/page12 thread #175

The above has a link to a dropbox with a Sunday Times Article.
One of the main reasons that JC was linked to the CSK initially was because LW spent 6 months doing the same course as JC at W.A.I.T. now Curtin University.

The article also notes Stirling Highway was her normal route home.

Very good point re the handbag - no wallet required.


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[Canning Vale]

Some older car doors were fairly easy to get into, via the window with a coat hangar. Perhaps the perpetrator opened the door, sat in the car and waited for her to get into the car.

 

[Xyz]

Random query about JC's car: would WAPOL still have this stored somewhere as evidence in an unsolved crime?

 

[petedavo.au]

I'll concentrate on these 3 questions raised by JC's sister.

If these things are all linked to her disappearance, then who , and why?
Could the stalker in the car, be the one that broke in to her home? In one media report she described the person, so it obviously isn't someone she recognized.
Did he follow her all the way? Media articles say she went around him and sped off. So how did he know where she lived? Her license plate? Only a trained observer could get a plate quickly at night. Who had access to Registration info anyhow? Insurance clerks, Local councils, but only by application to Police at the time who ran licensing. Most likely a policeman or some clerk working in Licensing?
Why break in? Assuming POI was fixated in a maniacal way with some traffic slight, and gets the address from the license plate and goes around finding no one there to confront, he breaks in just because of his rage to piss her off? Media accounts don't mention if anything was stolen, which I'd expect if anything was. It would be interesting if the bag of clothes was, or the wallet, because they then (I suppose) turn up at a cafe or are returned to her home after she was last seen.
Did this road rage stalker finally catch up with her on the night she went missing?
If so, then Julie's sister's questions, if answered might uncover leads to what finally happened to her IMO

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[petedavo.au]

Random query about JC's car: would WAPOL still have this stored somewhere as evidence in an unsolved crime?

I think I saw it at Maylands. But I haven't been in there (on that side of the complex) since 1999, so can't confirm if it still is.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[janwa]

Evidently the clothing was the same size as JC. Sorry I can't remember where I read that.

Uniforms were usually made to measure and If the uniform was laundered in house it would most likely have ID so it would go back to the owner. Regarding getting from the school to the Edwards house or vice versa my boy walked through the bush as it was quicker.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

If the accused knew CGE when family still had restaurant he might have ate there or hung around.
And if CG and her family ever ate at the French restaurant too.
Then there was opportunity for CG and BRE to cross paths, and maybe even meet.

That would certainly explain a non blitz attack for CG, if the accused stopped to give her a lift home, and CG recognised the accused and therefore maybe willingly got in his car.
Just one theory and all IMO.

 

[justified]

Uniforms were usually made to measure and If the
uniform was laundered in house it would most likely have ID so it would go back to the owner. Regarding getting from the school to the Edwards house or vice versa my boy walked through the bush as it was quicker.

Apparently only 39 uniforms were made & the one found did match JC size. Assume remaining 38 all accounted for.

 

[Spinnaker]

I have given quite a bit of thought in relation to the damage to JC's car and think it is plausible that the damage to the car was sustained in the sea.

The sea is a powerful force - over the years I have seen significant damage sustained by the sea, given the right conditions.

Thanks to input from previous posters we have established that it was possible to drive onto and off the Groyne when JC went missing - for me the scenario of JC's car being driven off the Groyne and hitting reef and rock for me is the most likely.

I believe the car may have rolled in the sea also and hit reef - the roof may have hit the side of the groyne going into the sea also.

We also cannot exclude the possibility that the car was driven from height (perhaps hitting rocks on the fall into the sea) further up the coast - then travelling south with the current. However the above seems the most likely.

EDIT: Would be interesting to hear whether the point of impact was looked for in the investigation.

 

[Spinnaker]

Uniforms were usually made to measure and If the uniform was laundered in house it would most likely have ID so it would go back to the owner. Regarding getting from the school to the Edwards house or vice versa my boy walked through the bush as it was quicker.

Just thought I would let you know that It is not common practice to have ID's in hotel uniforms - instead laundry forms are filled out when putting the clothes in for cleaning. Uniforms also came in standard sizes.

Unless there is a DNA match to uniform we cannot assume it belongs to JC (Just IMO).

 

[janwa]

Just thought I would let you know that It is not common practice to have ID's in hotel uniforms - instead laundry forms are filled out when putting the clothes in for cleaning. Uniforms also came in standard sizes.

Unless there is a DNA match to uniform we cannot assume it belongs to JC (Just IMO).

Worked at 2 places where uniforms were made to measure that's why odd shaped people still looked neat and very presentable. Just quoting my experience

 

[Canning Vale]

Uniforms were usually made to measure and If the uniform was laundered in house it would most likely have ID so it would go back to the owner. Regarding getting from the school to the Edwards house or vice versa my boy walked through the bush as it was quicker.

Janwa....
To the south of the former Edwards property is still vacant land. Evidently the nursery in Bullfinch St owned the land opposite too. I think the Edwards property was 3 acres.

 

[Spinnaker]

Worked at 2 places where uniforms were made to measure that's why odd shaped people still looked neat and very presentable. Just quoting my experience

Hi JanWA, I think you will find that the clothing is delivered in standard sizes and an on site seamstress/tailor makes adjustments if required - this comes from experience dealing with the cost and bottom line re clothing a workforce.

 

[Canning Vale]

As I mentioned before some older cars were easy to access, without a key - and didn't have steering locks. It would be easy enough for a strong person to steer a small car, whilst walking alongside it.

I don't think Cottesloe's beachside cafe/restaurant was there then, if it was, it probably closed early in winter.

During the 1990s Perth had much less population and the nightlife wasn't lively, like it is nowadays :happydance:.

Nightclubs closed at 3am and afterwards people gathered at a friends house or went home!

 

[janwa]

Janwa....
To the south of the former Edwards property is still vacant land. Evidently the nursery in Bullfinch St owned the land opposite too. I think the Edwards property was 3 acres.

I still live in Gosnells my boys used to cross Bulfinch St then go through the bush to cut off the Gay St/ Southern River Rd corner going the back way.