Found Deceased Australia - Elisa Curry, 43, Aireys Inlet, Melbourne, 30 Sept 2017 #3

[Bohemian]

Guidance when inquests are held:

http://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au/find/publications/guidance+on+when+inquests+are+held

.pdf:

http://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au...s+for+requesting+an+inquest_february_2016.pdf

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Oh OK, that's similar as Baden-Clay. It's was all about how hard it is with the children. Poor me, feel sorry for me, look what I'M going through.
Almost blaming the victim?
Is that what you mean or am I totally off balance here.

Yes, this. But I meant another widower with 3 children.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ch-suspect-in-SWAT-gear-18-Apr-2016-42/page69

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I’ve seen GB-C’s performance and I’d have to say that I see no comparison between his ‘appeal’ and that of Elisa’s husband.

I meant another husband although his wife got murdered and wasn't missing:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ch-suspect-in-SWAT-gear-18-Apr-2016-42/page69

 

[emirates1957]

Thanx Bo that got me thinking.

I doubt an autopsy could tell if Elisa got stuck in a rip or intentionally kept swimming out to sea. The amount of water in her lungs would be the same or if she was pushed off a cliff or jumped, the injuries would be identical. IMO.

Gerard pushed the depression wagon and if it wasn't for the marks Allison left, she too could have been classed as a simple suicide who jumped off a bridge. Gone & forgotten, next please....
Gerard would be $1mill +++ richer livin' the high life from her insurances.

Or alternatively she had NO water in her lungs, completely different scenario.

 

[Bohemian]

Or alternatively she had NO water in her lungs, completely different scenario.

If Elisa had little to no sea water in her lungs it would mean she had died before she was submerged in the ocean. AFAIK the forensic pathologist would have to find antemortem injuries such as blunt force trauma or wounds made by a weapon, evidence of strangulation, etc, to indicate a homicide. It’s also possible Elisa could have suffered a medical event such as a stroke, heart attack, etc, or a fatal injury as a result of hitting the rocks, before she was submerged. From what I’ve read, drowning deaths in the absence of witnesses and especially when only partial remains have been recovered, seem to be a difficult call for a forensic pathologist and Coroner.

 

[sosocurious]

If Elisa had little to no sea water in her lungs it would mean she had died before she was submerged in the ocean. AFAIK the forensic pathologist would have to find antemortem injuries such as blunt force trauma or wounds made by a weapon, evidence of strangulation, etc, to indicate a homicide. It’s also possible Elisa could have suffered a medical event such as a stroke, heart attack, etc, or a fatal injury as a result of hitting the rocks, before she was submerged. From what I’ve read, drowning deaths in the absence of witnesses and especially when only partial remains have been recovered, seem to be a difficult call for a forensic pathologist and Coroner.

BBM
I am a bit concerned that H2O in the lungs may not able to ever be determined.

 

[Bohemian]

BBM
I am a bit concerned that H2O in the lungs may not able to ever be determined.

The police, forensic pathologist and the Coroner will do their very best to ascertain Elisa’s COD, I’m sure. Such a sad outcome.

 

[Trooper]

Or alternatively she had NO water in her lungs, completely different scenario.

I would be astonished if there were any lungs at all, Em . Her body was in the water , at around 14 C thru the day, down to 6C thru the night for 10 days. . Ten Days.

Not the kind of temperature that preserves human flesh. Powerful ocean forces, as well as the inhabitants of that ocean. Competitive inhabitants. Plus, lungs, = soft tissue. First to dissolve and disintegrate . Lungs aren't attached to bone, at any point. I don't think there was much more than a bit of bone, whatever tore at the body and was broken up from which it took 4 days to get mitochondrial DNA result from a tiny bit of uncontaminated bone marrow.

Horror, really,.. truly terrible for those kids, their holiday place. .

 

[emirates1957]

If Elisa had little to no sea water in her lungs it would mean she had died before she was submerged in the ocean. AFAIK the forensic pathologist would have to find antemortem injuries such as blunt force trauma or wounds made by a weapon, evidence of strangulation, etc, to indicate a homicide. It’s also possible Elisa could have suffered a medical event such as a stroke, heart attack, etc, or a fatal injury as a result of hitting the rocks, before she was submerged. From what I’ve read, drowning deaths in the absence of witnesses and especially when only partial remains have been recovered, seem to be a difficult call for a forensic pathologist and Coroner.

Thanks bo, i wondered the same thing. If she had been walking her lab had a heart attack fell from a cliff would more than likely deliver her body on the sand or shallow water, swept out to shallow sea waters and returned to shore. Have a brief knowledge of your background bo, as far as we know why would there be dismemberment in a relatively short period of time. I know we have talked about rocks/sea life which could be a contributor. Forensics are fascinating, may i recommend Working Stiff the making of a medical examiner 9/11 (no TGY this is not in the sealed section).

 

[emirates1957]

I would be astonished if there were any lungs at all, Em . Her body was in the water , at around 14 C thru the day, down to 6C thru the night for 10 days. . Ten Days.

Not the kind of temperature that preserves human flesh. Powerful ocean forces, as well as the inhabitants of that ocean. Competitive inhabitants. Plus, lungs, = soft tissue. First to dissolve and disintegrate . Lungs aren't attached to bone, at any point. I don't think there was much more than a bit of bone, whatever tore at the body and was broken up from which it took 4 days to get mitochondrial DNA result from a tiny bit of uncontaminated bone marrow.

Horror, really,.. truly terrible for those kids, their holiday place. .

Thanks trooper excuse my ignorance ....does mitochondria come from the mother of Elisa?

 

[Bohemian]

Further reading:

http://www.sciencefocus.com/qa/how-long-does-it-take-body-decompose-sea

http://www.vifm.org/our-services/forensic-services/forensic-science-services/molecular-biology/

 

[Trooper]

Thanks trooper excuse my ignorance ....does mitochondria come from the mother of Elisa?

A mitochondrial DNA test (mtDNA test) traces a person's matrilineal or mother-line ancestry using the DNA in his or her mitochondria. mtDNA is passed down by the mother unchanged, to all her children, both male and female. A mitochondrial DNA test, can therefore be taken by both men and women.Aug 1, 2017

( I gather this means that her matrix would have been matched across the line with her brother. .. following the matrilineal line. Or up the line from her children...either son or daughters. )

 

[Bohemian]

Thanks bo, i wondered the same thing. If she had been walking her lab had a heart attack fell from a cliff would more than likely deliver her body on the sand or shallow water, swept out to shallow sea waters and returned to shore. Have a brief knowledge of your background bo, as far as we know why would there be dismemberment in a relatively short period of time. I know we have talked about rocks/sea life which could be a contributor. Forensics are fascinating, may i recommend Working Stiff the making of a medical examiner 9/11 (no TGY this is not in the sealed section).

Depends on where and when Elisa was submerged, swell, current, tide, etc. Thanks for the suggestion about ‘Working Stiff’. I stuck to BioMedSc/Forensic Bio as I would’ve had to do a medical degree to become a forensic pathologist. The risk of hurting the living, even if in the long run it helped them, gave (and still gives me) the willies — although I can give first aid in an emergency (on ‘autopilot&#8217.

 

[Trooper]

Apropos of absolutely nothing to do with this thread apart from DNA is the story of the bones of the Russian Tsar , his wife and children, found down an old mineshaft outside Ekaterinburg, east of the Urals... .. to make sure that the identify was correct, a search in Genealogy records took place, tracing back generations, across generations, and lines of descendancy thru the Tsar's mother, and the Tsarina's mother, going backwards, then forwards along the path of the generations of those two women into the present day, with a living person from whom a mitochondrial DNA sample could be obtained.

This led to Prince Phillip, QE2 's husband, the only living descendant of the both, .. the Tsar's mother, and the Tsarina's mother,, and then, thru that to the identity of the children's bones.. all 5 of them.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34338802

 

[sleepinoz]

Depends on where and when Elisa was submerged, swell, current, tide, etc. Thanks for the suggestion about ‘Working Stiff’. I stuck to BioMedSc/Forensic Bio as I would’ve had to do a medical degree to become a forensic pathologist. The risk of hurting the living, even if in the long run it helped them, gave (and still gives me) the willies — although I can give first aid in an emergency (on ‘autopilot&#8217.

Also depends on if they have possession of her lungs, from most reports they don't seem to have 'all' of Elisa.

 

[Mannagum]

Local residents have apparently told media the body is that of a woman. There must have been something more than bone for them to conclude that

 

[sosocurious]

I would be astonished if there were any lungs at all, Em . Her body was in the water , at around 14 C thru the day, down to 6C thru the night for 10 days. . Ten Days.

Not the kind of temperature that preserves human flesh. Powerful ocean forces, as well as the inhabitants of that ocean. Competitive inhabitants. Plus, lungs, = soft tissue. First to dissolve and disintegrate . Lungs aren't attached to bone, at any point. I don't think there was much more than a bit of bone, whatever tore at the body and was broken up from which it took 4 days to get mitochondrial DNA result from a tiny bit of uncontaminated bone marrow.

Horror, really,.. truly terrible for those kids, their holiday place. .

Thanks Troop .... that what I meant ... just could not find the words to say it.

 

[Bohemian]

Local residents have apparently told media the body is that of a woman. There must have been something more than bone for them to conclude that

Exactly and if you have the stomach for it there is much forensic literature with accompanying photographs of sea water drowning victims to be found on the web (that I won’t link here because I think they are too graphic and also unnecessary).

 

[BreakingNews]

Yes, you may be right about an inquest, depending on whether the Coroner deems it necessary and his findings to be in the public interest. As to intent, if any, contained within we’ll just have to wait for them to be published which seems to take a while for other findings/inquests I’ve read.

There was an Senate Inquiry into this ‘subject’ in 2009. The report, starting at p. 37, is interesting:

https://www.aph.gov.au/~/media/wopa...uiries/2008_10/suicide/report/report_pdf.ashx

ETA. Does the Coroner’s Court of Victoria have a listing of upcoming inquests? I have only been able to find the Coroner’s findings/inquests on the website. If you have a link for future reference it would be appreciated, Troop.

I doubt that any inquest will be anytime soon. They always take months, sometimes years.

 

[suspicious]

LE Stated in this case they didn't suspect foul play, however found the body and arrested Ashley. I'm still not convinced this was suicide. [emoji848]

FL - Taylor Wright, 33, Pensacola, 7 Sept 2017 #2 *Arrest*

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